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379 out of 1000

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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 13 Jun 2010, 10:58
Hey Rosh,

The confusion comes when you want to modify a noun with two modifiers at once. They can't both touch. For example, "The cup of water, which is in my hand, is hot."

Both "of water" and "which is in my hand" are modifying "cup". But they can't both touch. So we allow "cup of water" to be considered ONE THING, which is then modified by "which is in my hand". This is why you can't simply argue that every modifier touches the exact word it modifies, because it may touch another modifier.

Does that help?

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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 13 Jun 2010, 12:29
yeah i do know that in X of Y, which......; the 'which' USUALLY refers to X ( as u guys in manhattan call it mission critical modifier) , but can the same yardstick be applied to 'that', which is an essential modifier. is it better to ALWAYS treat 'X of Y' clause like a noun phrase? this way there would be no ambiguity what so ever
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 13:03
Hey Rosh,

Yeah, I'd say treat any X of Y like one thing, but I don't know how far you can stretch that: "The house that I bought from Dave, which is on fire, was a bad purchase."

Here, the essential clause is necessary, but then the "which" clearly modifies HOUSE still, not Dave, even though it's touching. I'll need to re-read our official literature on mission critical modifiers, but my understanding would be that my example sentence is fine.

Hope that helps!

-t
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 01:48
Generally, a relative clause (a clause starting with 'that'/'which'/'who'/'whom'/'whose') should come as close as possible to the word it modifies. The GMAT SC often uses relative clauses inside a prepositional phrase, and this is a structure you should be prepared to see on the exam!

Ex.
Incorrect: One of the students who is in my class is taking her exam on Friday.

Main clause: One... is taking...
Relative/Subordinate clause: who is in my class --> SHOULD REFER TO THE STUDENTS

Correct: One of the students who are in my class is taking her exam on Friday.

One [of the students {who are in my class}] is taking....

Thus, the prepositional phrase ('of the students') describes the subject of the main clause ('One'). The relative clause ('who are in my class') defines the noun inside the prepositional phrase ('students').

However, sometimes the relative clause is separated from the referent (the word to which it refers) by a prepositional phrase, and then you have to pay attention to the intended meaning of the sentence to understand what the referent should be.

Ex. The erosion of the Fortland shores, which has reached an unprecedented rate this year, will eventually result in the destruction of much of the marine wildlife in the area.

Clearly, the erosion and not the shores has reached a rate, and the prepositional phrase ('of Fortland shores') should be skipped as descriptive info.

I hope that helps!

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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2010, 16:54
Hey Sarai,

Sorry to butt in, but can you reference any specific GMAT question that actually utilizes the structure you described there? I can't say I've ever seen it show up on a test, but I'm open to the possibility. In my experience, GMAT would fix the weirdness some other way (i.e. "One of my students is taking her exam..."). Perhaps a cleaner example, because it changes up the verb (instead of using is/is), might be:

One of the songs that blow my mind is "Take the A Train".

Again though, we could fix it by writing "'Take the A Train' is a song that blows my mind." Or something like that. Thoughts?

-t
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 07:27
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TommyWallach wrote:
Hey Sarai,

Sorry to butt in, but can you reference any specific GMAT question that actually utilizes the structure you described there? I can't say I've ever seen it show up on a test, but I'm open to the possibility. In my experience, GMAT would fix the weirdness some other way (i.e. "One of my students is taking her exam..."). Perhaps a cleaner example, because it changes up the verb (instead of using is/is), might be:

One of the songs that blow my mind is "Take the A Train".

Again though, we could fix it by writing "'Take the A Train' is a song that blows my mind." Or something like that. Thoughts?

-t


Hey Tommy,

Yeah, in the Verbal Review, problem #42. The original goes,

"...the AM-1 is one of the many new satellites that is a part of 15 years effort..."

"is a part" is corrected to read "are a part" because it is the satellites that are a part, not the 'one'. It's not a highly common structure, but I know I've seen it tested before, and students should keep their eyes open for it, paying close attention to intended meaning.

-Sarai

p.s. Couldn't agree with you more on "Take the A train"! :wink:
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 09:50
[quote="GMAT TIGER"][quote="Ayrish"]Hi Gmaters
Even their most ardent rivals concede that no less than a major debacle can upset the apple cart of Australia's present successive victories.

A. that no less than a major debacle can
B. that nothing other than a major debacle will
C. that only a mojor debacle will
D. that a mere major debacle would
E. if only a major debacle could


can u help on this ....OA is c
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 17:28
Hey Sarai,

Thanks much for throwing that up. I think I just don't like the sample, because logic would argue against "students who are in my class", since it's much cleaner as a simple prep phrase "students in my class". But the GMAT example you gave doesn't have that issue, so it definitely illustrates this better.

Thanks!

-t
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 02 Jul 2010, 22:33
Enlightened by the Master Jedi - Sarai and Tommy :-)
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2010, 13:40
So the conclusion here is that in a "X of Y that verb" construction, that can modify either X or Y depending on the meaning of the sentence, and therefore the verb can be either singular or plural depending on the referent.
Is that correct?

The same happens with a "X of Y, which" construcion.

Many thanks to Saray and Tommy.
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 21 Jul 2010, 23:13
That's absolutely right noboru! You summarized the issue well.
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2010, 04:54
SaraiGMAXonline wrote:
That's absolutely right noboru! You summarized the issue well.


So, in the problem at issue...what is your take? Do you agree with Tommy's B explanation, or do you support the supposed OA A?

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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2010, 05:48
Guys, don't go crazy over a stupid question..

Whenever it is of the form "A of B", the subject-verb is that of A and not of B.

Hence, in this case "patchwork of green fields" implies singular. Hence, surrounds.. B is the option.
http://www.beatthegmat.com/many-of-them ... t8979.html.

At times the OA is wrong.. and the most popular places where OA is wrong are Paper Based SETS or the 1000 series questions..
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 01 Aug 2010, 20:37
I can show at least 10 explanations from OG where it stands with similar answers to patchwork of green fields that sorrounds...

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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 13 Sep 2010, 07:38
Its official.. OA is wrong.. the answer is B.
1) the patchwork is singular
2) whom is required to join the two sentences
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2010, 10:46
SaraiGMAXonline wrote:
Ex. The erosion of the Fortland shores, which has reached an unprecedented rate this year, will eventually result in the destruction of much of the marine wildlife in the area.

Clearly, the erosion and not the shores has reached a rate, and the prepositional phrase ('of Fortland shores') should be skipped as descriptive info.

I hope that helps!

Best,
Sarai


Hi Sarai, would disagree with you a bit on that; 'which' would always have a (very strong) tendency to modify the immediate word preceding it. The reason why 'which' just cannot modify "Fortland shores" in this case is because "grammar" doesn't allow it to - the usage of "has". If 'which' was to modify "Fortland shores", clearly the auxiliary to use would have been "have". So, logic (Clearly, the erosion and not the shores has reached a rate) has little role to play here.

Have you come across any other official GMAT questions where 'which' is not modifying the nearest word (even if "grammatically" it can)?
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2010, 13:23
Green fields can never be a subject in this case -

Rule - Noun after preposition 'of' can never be subject the phrase.

patchwork has to be subject. A can't be correct answer choice. Question is bit vague. Use of whom in B as well makes it not 100% correct..But if we have to select one, go for B. Thanks.
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 16 Oct 2010, 06:31
This one is still there.

A or B?
what is your take?
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 31 Dec 2010, 04:58
went with B. i think 'are' at the end of B sounds better than A.
many of whom are in the area for this season.
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Re: 379 out of 1000 [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2011, 10:13
IMO -B s.v. ag. B,E left
B is more clear
Re: 379 out of 1000   [#permalink] 07 Jan 2011, 10:13
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