510 and admitted to HBS!! How important is GMAT score?

Lucky?? Come on man, you went to Babson you should know better than anyone that who you know outweighs what you know

Also, I know many people with low academics loaded pockets graduated from top schools.

Actually, that's not true much. I don't think it's always about contacts. If you have good credentials you can definitely get in. If at all anything, schools want to diversify their student pool.

Contacts can talk for you, so can good credentials!
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contacts do help but it can only help a little... i mean if you just plain suck no one gonna want u right.

A little? I personally know a few people who were accepted into undergrad programs at schools like cornell, harvard, nyu with one phone call.

This all is interesting and I never ever thought this could happen in USA or other western countries! (Though I'm sure this all back door entry happens in India to large extent.) May be I was wrong..

There is an old story that Robert Kennedy only put his name on his Harvard application and then turned it in. Oh and then theres the Kennedy School Of Government also.

Basically while these schools mostly let in deserving people there are those guys who creep in because of connections. The connections are big stuff in regards to endowment and fundraising for the school.

Look for info on this, people get in all the time because of nepotism. Very interesting stuff.

I understand it and am ok with it to a certain extent, but not even having a Bachelors? (Bush's assistant) and into HBS?
come on! how can a school like Harvard claim to hold everyone including itself to such a ridiculously high standard when they have people who cant even fill VERY basic requirement sneaking in through the back door? He fetched coffee!

I'm sure he has some amazing insights but get a degree first like everyone else!

frankly its a bunch of BS, also it happens at all schools not just IVY, think Penn State level.

Legacy appointments still make up about 20% of all Ivy admits.....am I right?

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the person with the 510 GMAT is the child of an HBS alumnus, who is generous with their alumni donations.

^^^ agree, also, why would HBS post the ENTIRE GMAT range?, I haven't seen another school do that

Maybe they want to encourage people who can't score 700+ but have great backgrounds to apply?

The 510 is deceptive. Aside from a killer resume, app, etc. That person could have been extremely well connected. As an example, the Huntsman family out of Utah can get anyone they want into Wharton no questions asked. So aside from working hard on the GMAT, etc it helps to know a large benefactor who has numerous buildings in their name.

[quote2]Preliminary Profile of the Class of 2012 at HBS: GMAT Score Range 510-790
Check The link is very much interesting and inspiring! 510 and admitted to HBS is like dream come true, but the person (with GMAT score - 510) would definitely have very much compelling application.


*** Just Because they post a the profile, it does not mean that they actually accepted anyone with a 510 GMAT score, I think, my educated guess is that, the profile, is including all applicants (accepted, denied,rejected, waitlisted), I don't think that the range can be from 510-790, and still be the #1/2 ranking management program in the US. I would considered banking on a 720+ from the getgo.

That's just my opinion.

well if the connection is in "high places" then yeah but if the alum/conn is not that important then it doesnt have much effect.

Laythesmack...its the range for ADMITTED students, im sure of it. Its the incoming class' profile

I also think it's the range of admitted students!

Have you guys thought of the following:

HBS and other top business schools say they want to shape leaders. Thats why they really care about leadership potential.

Let's say now that you have a billionaire's son who wants to get into HBS but who is a bit retarded. HBS would normally not consider an idiot like that. BUT HBS knows that this guy will be taking over his father's group of companies employing thousands of people and will need at some point to make decisions that will be affecting thousands of lives. HBS knows this guy will be in a leadership position one day so HBS can only hope this guy can learn a couple of things during the MBA and not act as a complete retard and help destroy the global economy.

On the other hand you have Mr. Nobody. This guy looks nice but what are the chances that Mr. Nobody will become a big CEO or president of the USA someday? So first you try to educate all the people you know will become leaders anyway, and then try to figure out by the only means available (GMAT, GPA, essays, references) if there seems to be some potential that Mr. Nobody will be in a leadership position one day.

So I think its not a matter of connections getting you in the school but rather connections guaranteeing that you will have a leadership role in the future which makes HBS and the other top schools accept you since you fit in their goal of shaping the leaders of tomorrow.

Is this fair? I guess not. Is it reasonable from the school's perspective? You could argue that it is.

To sum up, if you can't almost prove you will end up being a CEO, president etc then you better have good grades and GMAT score.

If this makes sense to you throw some kudos my way.

gr8two is *right* on the money -- consider the scenario of the son (daughter?) of a huge family-run business that is not based in an English-speaking country -- the heir apparent to a company that is a global household name (e.g., Samsung or LG, both of which I believe are still heavily family-owned). The lack of English fluency alone could account for the overall "low" score (the quant could have been 99%!)...and it is clear that they will have a job -- a VERY BIG job -- waiting for them at the end (so, no need to care what Goldman / McK think of them -- if anything, the bankers and consultants would be wooing this person to HIRE *them* later on down the road).

gr8wo observantly wrote:

"Let's say now that you have a billionaire's son who wants to get into HBS but who is a bit retarded. HBS would normally not consider an idiot like that. BUT HBS knows that this guy will be taking over his father's group of companies employing thousands of people and will need at some point to make decisions that will be affecting thousands of lives."

George W Bush, anyone? (seriously though -- there is a perfect example of someone who was, through family, destined to eventually do SOMETHING major...regardless of his past academic performance.) Perfect example. If your family isn't one of the most powerful, well-connected, wealthy ones on earth, then....yeah. You probably need to break the high-600s. Back to studying you go!

While I'm at it, I know this topic is a few years old, but for the people on this board complaining about W's assistant getting in a few years ago sans college degree...as much as I think that W was one of the worst things that could have happened to the USA, ever, I actually think the case for his assistant to get in is extremely compelling:

- First of all, Claremont-McKenna is a very, very good college (he would not have gotten in in the first place if he weren't bright) (Has it occurred to you that maybe HIS GMAT might have been 750+ ? )
- He didn't drop out due to poor grades or laziness; he dropped out to witness, first-hand and up close, how one of the most powerful countries (could you call the Federal government an "organization"?) on earth is run. BTW, dropping out of college to pursue this opportunity could be seen as the sort of gutsy risk-taking behavior the top schools love.
- While it's fun to talk about trivial tasks like making W a peanut-butter sandwich, the fact is that as Deputy Chief of Staff this guy probably was privy to some Heavy Stuff; seeing significant leadership at its highest form (if not from the President himself, then via people like the Joints Chief of Staff, Dr. Condoleeza Rice, etc.)
- With the connections he made from his time at the White House, HBS rightfully assumed that he could write his own ticket -- and hey! He's now a successful big-shot at a PE firm. And while I surely disagree with his political views, my hope would be that he's mingling his White House connections with his HBS connections and therefore contributing to the alumni community as a whole (e.g. hooking his classmates up with government contacts if needed). In sum, it looks like he's doing precisely what schools like HBS hope their graduates do.

To summarize:

- The occasional lone person who DOES get in to HBS with a sub-600 or sub-500 score (1 out of 1,000! 0.1%! ) is probably such a super-star (business or political scion; possibly military hero or impressive do-gooder?), possibly a non-native English speaker (so some forgiveness on the verbal section is possible), and probably able to easily prove that they will put the HBS degree to work in a SIGNIFICANT way almost immediately upon graduation and also help out the alumni community in a Major Way. In sum, under no circumstances should just about ANYONE on this board assume that they are in the same boat and therefore think that there is "hope" for their lower score. Sorry.

- Complain all you want about it being unfair that HBS bent the rules for the former Deputy Chief of Staff, but...I'd have placed my bets on him too. HBS et al don't want to grant one of their few, precious spots to someone who's just going to become a middle-tier project manager....remember, an acceptance is a bet: they're placing bets on which people will eventually have significant impacts on society (for-profit, non-profit, government), and they don't want to squander one of those bets. Someone with enough smarts, drive, and stamina to have worked for the White House, under any administration, surely was a safe bet.

I completely agree with the points you make. I do think that the issue above was that the process is not fair, not so much any specific case. Unfortunately, not everyone is afforded the same opportunities in life. Some people will have certain privileges. The admissions process for any school (not just HBS) is based on whatever they want to base it on. Although the process may not be fair, neither is life in general.