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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce

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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink] New post 31 Aug 2004, 23:51
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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink] New post 11 Sep 2013, 23:51
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nelz007 wrote:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates

that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

I wasn't fully convinced with the OA it was between A and D for me. When I pre-thought an answer choice I thought of the "were allowed" but that wasn't there in any of the answer choice.


Hi Nelson,
Let me address your doubt by first understanding the intended meaning of the sentence and analyzing the sentence structure. Then it will be easier to understand the differences between the options. (A and D in this case)
The intended meaning of the sentence is that till 1972, municipalities were allowed to dump a certain amount of phosphate into the Great Lakes. However, a 1972 agreement between Canada and the US reduced this amount. Now let us analyze the sentence structure.

• A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates
o that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

The only error in this sentence is the use of past perfect tense “had been allowed”.

Let us understand how. Per the sentence, the agreement reduced the amount that municipalities were allowed to dump. Now in this sentence, the verb tense - past perfect tense - had been allowed - is incorrect because it non-sensically implies that municipalities were allowed to dump a certain amount sometime in the past - (they are no longer allowed to dump now, since the action is already completed) and then the next event in the past happened - the agreement reduced this amount. It is not possible to reduce an amount for something that has already happened (had been allowed).

Therefore Choice A is incorrect for the reason discussed above.

Choice D: reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump.
This choice conveys the intended meaning. In general, the municipalities are allowed to dump a certain amount of phosphate. However, an agreement between Canada and the US reduced that amount in 1972.
Therefore this option is correct.

The thing to note here is that both "were" and "are" can be correct. So, if any one of these is given in the option statements, we can mark that option statement.

Now, the question is: what difference does it make to use "are" over "were"?

The school reduced the fine that Joe was supposed to pay.
The school reduced the fine that Joe is supposed to pay.

Can you identify the difference between these two sentences?

In the first sentence, Joe "was" supposed to pay the fine sometime in the past and we do not know whether he has paid the fine till now or not.
In the second sentence, Joe "is" supposed to pay the fine presently and we know that he has not yet paid the fine.

Similar is the case with the use of "were" and "are" in the original sentence.

A 1972 agreement between Canada and the US reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities were allowed to dump into the Great Lakes

A 1972 agreement between Canada and the US reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump into the Great Lakes

The first sentence means that we are referring to amount of phosphates that municipalities were allowed to dump in the past whereas the second sentence means that we are referring to the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump currently.

Do you get the difference?

So, both "are" and "were" are grammatically correct but convey different meanings.

Hope this helps! :)

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 [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2005, 12:25
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I picked D as it better follows the intent of the sentence...

"agreement reduced the amount that the municipalities are allowed to dump"....that the agreement refers to dumping that is ongoing is best expressed here.

"agreement reduced the amount that the municipalities had been allowed to dump" the agreement could not really have reduced the amount that had already been dumped, right?
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2006, 00:07
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D it is.
Past perfect is used to suggest that something is over and done with before the main action of the past. It would be OK to say:

The 1972 agreement replaced the amount of phosphates that had been allowed with a new amount.

But if you are talking about changing an amount, then the amount existed before and continues to exist after the 1972 agreement. The present tense is used to refer to something that exists for all time.

Copernicus revealed that the Earth and the planets all revolve around the Sun.

"Revolve" is in the present tense because it is an action that was then and continues to take place. It would be wrong to say: "...revealed that the Earth and the planets revolved..." or "had revolved."

In the sentence under dicussion, there was and continues to be an amount of phosphates that municipalities can dump. The 1972 agreement reduced the amount, but the amount continues to exist.

I'll try one more example. Suppose I started a new diet last week. I formerly ate all the red meat I wanted. Under the new diet I allow myself to eat only 100 grams a day.

The diet I started last week reduced the amount of red meat I am allowed to eat to 100 grams a day.
It would be wrong to say:

The diet I started last week reduced the amount of red meat I had been allowed to eat to 100 grams a day.


Explanation by 800BOB.(testmagic)
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2004, 17:00
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(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
- Had been allowed means before this agreemet municpalities were dumping, after the agreement reduced the amount that are dumped.

(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
- Had been dumping is the wrong tense. It means it happened in the past and still happening at the point after the agreement (even though it may not be happening now)

(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
- reduces is the wrong tense

(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
- This statement did nothing to suggest that municapalilties were dumping anything and if so, the point of the agreement was more of a early kill (reduce the amount in case municipalities decided to start dumping waste)

(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities
- reduces is the wrong tense

(A) is a better choice
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phosphate [#permalink] New post 28 Nov 2007, 17:28
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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

Amar
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Re: phosphate [#permalink] New post 28 Nov 2007, 18:49
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Amardeep Sharma wrote:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

Amar



I think its A.
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Re: phosphate [#permalink] New post 28 Nov 2007, 19:39
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Amardeep Sharma wrote:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

Amar


Will take a chance and go for 'D'
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Re: phosphate [#permalink] New post 28 Nov 2007, 19:50
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Amardeep Sharma wrote:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

Amar


Yes, the answer is A. After a long thought I could understand this.. Initially I went for D but then a little more thought and some reading of tenses again led me to A..
The agreement happened in the past hence 'reduced' should be there..
Now the agreement reduced something that was there earlier.. i.e the amount of phospates dumped in lake.. Hence this was allowed earlier only (Earlier event ) .. The agreement reduced this limit .. (later event)

Hence A..
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Nov 2007, 10:39
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D. The reduction holds today and will continue to hold in future. therefore, i'd go with the "are allowed to dump" over "had been/have been"
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Nov 2007, 17:39
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: phosphate

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump CORRECT
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

The agreement happened in 1972 which "reduced" the amount of phosphates.....the dumping happened before the agreement, so it should be "had".
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Re: [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2008, 15:33
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abhishakes2001 wrote:
D. The reduction holds today and will continue to hold in future. therefore, i'd go with the "are allowed to dump" over "had been/have been"



well how do you know that it holds today?
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Re: phosphate [#permalink] New post 20 May 2008, 20:41
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buffdaddy wrote:
Hi rpmodi,

gmatter contrains several errors. This particular question has been discussed several times and the answer is infact D.

Hi,

Do you have any links relating to this....?
I think it could even be context dependent. Consider this sentence as a part of a paragraph

Case 1:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes. Later, in 1982, another agreement between Canada and the United States further reduced this amount by another 35 percent.

Case 2:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are to dump into the Great Lakes. Today, the phosphate pollution level in the Great Lakes is very low.


NOTE: In case 2 - had been - would still work.
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Re: Great Lakes [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2009, 01:19
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noboru wrote:
Erukumk wrote:
+1 for D wats the OA

It is A, but i am with D too (At least until somebody clarify this...)


Probably, you must have referred it from 1000sc, only in 1000sc it is A, but the same problem is in OG 11 th edition. where OA is D, 1000sc has many questions with wrong OA.


Economist wrote:
Is the OA geniune:)
Because I cant understand how A can be the answer, there is absolutely no need of "had been allowed to dump"..as there is only one action in the past.


OA is D

IT IS A PROBLEM FORM OG 11 , PROBLEM NO.62 REFER IT.
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Re: SC 1000 - OA not sure [#permalink] New post 12 Oct 2010, 05:54
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The gist of the sentence boils down to the restriction the agreement imposed on future action rather than on past action. Obliviously the agreement can't ask those who exceeded the dumping limits prior to 1972, to recover the dumped material from the lakes. So any mention of past tense or past perfect for describing the dumping is null and void. Choices A and B will be incorrect for this reason.

Since it is an agreement that was mooted in 1972, we are required to use past tense to denote the main verb. So C and E which use the present tense verb reduces can be eliminated.

D for using the past tense reduce to expose the timing of the event, and the present tense for some thing the is currently in vogue and that which is going to continue in the future, is the preferred choice.
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A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States [#permalink] New post 16 Mar 2013, 07:50
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1. A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities

The correct answer is A. Why not B or D ?
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Re: A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduce [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2014, 04:04
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jrashish wrote:
rahul wrote:
A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United States reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the Great Lakes.

(A) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities had been allowed to dump
(B) reduced the phosphate amount that municipalities had been dumping
(C) reduces the phosphate amount municipalities have been allowed to dump
(D) reduced the amount of phosphates that municipalities are allowed to dump
(E) reduces the amount of phosphates allowed for dumping by municipalities


Pl review my analysis

Meaning

Agreement to reduce the amt of phosphate that was allowed to be dumped

POE

1) A 1972 agreement between Canada and the United
States reduced the amount of phosphates
2) that municipalities had been allowed to dump into the
Great Lakes.

SV correct
Agreement...reduced
municipalities...had been allowed

Modifier
into the Great Lakes...is correctly placed

Meaning Correct

Parallelism
B/w C and the US...correct

Pronoun-

Idiom
allowed to...correct

Other-

Verb

Here though even after the agreement municipalities will dump the waste (of reduced amt) the sequence is

Municipalities allowed to dump waste --->Agreement to reduce waste----> Municipalities allowed to dump less waste

POE A correct

As per the sequence it is correct to state that municipalities had been allowed, because agreement happened later

So why is D correct here?
Also, what is the difference in amt of phosphate and phosphate amount


Dear Ashish,

As I explained in my post above, according to the intended meaning of the sentence, the agreement can only reduce the amount of phosphates that can be dumped AFTER the agreement is made. "Had been dumped" refers to the amount that was dumped BEFORE the agreement was made. So, logically, it doesn't make sense to say that the agreement can reduce this amount. The correct answer must use either the simple past tense or the present tense.

There is no real difference in meaning between "amount of phosphates" and "phosphate amount", but idiomatically, we use "number of" and "amount of". So, "amount of phosphates" is better.

I hope this helps with your doubts.

Regards,
Meghna
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Sep 2004, 21:52
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A for me.

However I understand people who chose D, but I am not sure this is the best way in ETS rules, I think it's better to stick with tense concordance...even if the answer D sounds ok for my ears.
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Re: SC#4 [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2005, 13:25
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C and E are easily eliminated because 1972 is in the past. "the phosphate amount" in B is wrong. Also nobody can reduce the amount that somebody has already been dumping. Allowed to dump is another matter.

It is hard to choose from A and D. In D it seems that the present tense is not consistent with the past tense in the main clause. However, in A the past perfect tense seems to imply that the agreement reduced the amount that were allowed before the agreement, which is not true. I would almost say that the correct way should be a simply past tense, but it is not included in the answers. I think D is the lesser evil since well municipalities are still allowed to dump today aren't they not?
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 [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2005, 13:36
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I think it is D there was a similar sort of question on the forum two weeks back i shall look and post the link.
remember that the munciplaities dumping phosphates in the lake is not a thing of the past , nothing is explicit about it so assume it is still going on.
Maybe i am wrong
but on OA id have to choose D
  [#permalink] 10 Mar 2005, 13:36
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