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A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority

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A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 May 2013, 09:32
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A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority concluded that conversion from ownership to rental properties has often been difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.

(A) difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.
(B) difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small, old, and that are located in central cities.
(C) difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes, which are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
(D) difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.
(E) difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 May 2013, 09:38
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The only difference between D and E is the comma before "and".
When there are more than one parallel list:1.small and old 2.that are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
It is necessary to use a comma to distinguish between the the two lists right ? If so the comma before and is necessary. Experts please correct me if i am wrong. Thanks in advance.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 May 2013, 22:19
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Hi there,
In a parallel list, comma is used before the parallel marker or the connector that joins all the entities in the list when there are more than two entities in a list. For example:
• Sri love apples and mangoes.
• Sri loves apples, mangoes, and grapes.

Since there are only two entities in the first sentence, we don't need comma before "and". But since there are three entities in the list in the second sentence, we need comma before "and".

In the given question, there are two lists. The second list resides in the first list. However, both the lists have only two entities.
• Entities in the main list - "are relatively small and old" (are) located in central cities.
• Entities in the sub-list - small and old.

This means that we don't need comma before any of the "and" because they join only two entities in the list. You can study other official sentences for this usage of comma.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 May 2013, 23:06
Thanks a ton Shraddha for answering my query. Kudos for you !!
One more query regarding the question-will the usage of comma alter the meaning in option E. If so how does it alter the meaning ?
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 May 2013, 23:17
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Hi there,

I don't think usage of comma changes the meaning in choice E. It's just that this usage of comma is incorrect. Use of "and" between "small" and "old" makes it clear that here we have a list already. This means that the first main list has only two entities, and hence, there should not be any comma before "and". But there is meaning change in choice E.

Hope this helps. :-)
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 27 May 2013, 06:53
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egmat wrote:
Hi there,
In a parallel list, comma is used before the parallel marker or the connector that joins all the entities in the list when there are more than two entities in a list. For example:
• Sri love apples and mangoes.
• Sri loves apples, mangoes, and grapes.

Since there are only two entities in the first sentence, we don't need comma before "and". But since there are three entities in the list in the second sentence, we need comma before "and".

In the given question, there are two lists. The second list resides in the first list. However, both the lists have only two entities.
• Entities in the main list - "are relatively small and old" (are) located in central cities.
• Entities in the sub-list - small and old.

This means that we don't need comma before any of the "and" because they join only two entities in the list. You can study other official sentences for this usage of comma.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Thanks - this is very basic and useful concept.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 28 May 2013, 08:56
Hi,

What is the problem with C? "which" clause is modifing the attached homes and then continues to say that both are located in central cities.

Thanks in advance

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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 28 May 2013, 09:00
By the way, I have read that GMAT doesnt have a "make or break" SC question involving a comma, as is the case with D and E. Please, correct me if Im wrong.

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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 28 May 2013, 10:10
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Hi,

'Which' vs 'that' is a core SC concept that you need to learn properly. Any decent SC book will do this.

[i]Which - is used to describe something that you've already defined.

That - is used to narrow down a list of things that is undefined.

For example:
Galileo's 4th theory (there is only 1 4th theory) which (no need to define) talks about xyx

Galileos' theory (many theorys) that (need to define) talks about xyz[/i}

Here, we need to define, so we use that

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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2013, 06:54
hi,
i had a silly doubt.

the second sentence i guess can stand on its own .So dont we use semi colon here.it has a subject and a verb.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2013, 07:09
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hsbinfy wrote:
hi,
i had a silly doubt.

the second sentence i guess can stand on its own .So dont we use semi colon here.it has a subject and a verb.


Hi,

you are perfectly fine in thinking so....they are two ICs.
but options with semicolon are not gramatically correct.
moreover 2 ICs can be connected by a COLON(:)..provided that the later clause must explains the preceeding clause.

below is an excerpt of MANHATTAN SC guide:

==>The colon (:) provides further explanation for what comes before it. For example, you can
use a colon to equate a list with its components. You should be able to insert the word
namely or the phrase that is after the colon.
What comes before the colon must be able to stand alone as a sentence. What comes after
the colon does not have to be able to stand alone.

You can put a main clause after a colon as well. The key is that this clause must explain
what precedes the colon-
perhaps the entire preceding clause.

example: On January 1, 2000, the national mood was completely different from
what it would become just a few years later: at the turn of the century,
given a seemingly unstoppable stock market and a seemingly peaceful
world, the country was content.


The words after the colon, at the turn of the century. " was content, can stand alone as a sentence.
They serve to explain the entire clause that comes before the colon (a clause that
asserts an upcoming change in the national mood, as of the first of the year 2000).


Do not confuse the semicolon (;) with the colon (:). The semicolon connects two related
independent clauses, but the second does not necessarily explain the first. In contrast, the
colon always connects a sentence with a further explanation.


hope it helps
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2013, 22:12
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saikarthikreddy wrote:
A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority concluded that conversion from ownership to rental properties has often been difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.

a)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.
b)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small, old, and that are located in central cities.
c)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes, which are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.
e)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.


Something not quite write in even D:

d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.

how this makes sense? I think it should be:
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old located in central cities.

second and not needed here, it is misleading.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2013, 22:26
cumulonimbus wrote:
saikarthikreddy wrote:
A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority concluded that conversion from ownership to rental properties has often been difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.

a)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.
b)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small, old, and that are located in central cities.
c)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes, which are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.
e)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.


Something not quite write in even D:

d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.

how this makes sense? I think it should be:
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old located in central cities.

second and not needed here, it is misleading.


OPTION D is PERFECTLY RIGHT.
ACTUALLY D is like this:

difficult: It has been more common for A that are relatively B and C.

here:
A=SOME TOWNHOUSES AND OTHER ATTACHED HOMES====>SEE THIS IS A COMPOND SUBJECT AND HENCE PLURAL ...AND THIS IS WHY ARE IS USED AFTER THAT.
B=SMALL AND OLD
C= LOCATED IN CENTRAL CITIES
B and C are the characterstics of A.
OLD LOCATED IN CITIES doesnt makes sense....
hope it helps.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2013, 18:39
shaileshmishra wrote:
cumulonimbus wrote:
saikarthikreddy wrote:
A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority concluded that conversion from ownership to rental properties has often been difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.

a)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, located in central cities.
b)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small, old, and that are located in central cities.
c)difficult; it has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes, which are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.
e)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old, and located in central cities.


Something not quite write in even D:

d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old and located in central cities.

how this makes sense? I think it should be:
d)difficult: It has been more common for some townhouses and other “attached” homes that are relatively small and old located in central cities.

second and not needed here, it is misleading.


OPTION D is PERFECTLY RIGHT.
ACTUALLY D is like this:

difficult: It has been more common for A that are relatively B and C.

here:
A=SOME TOWNHOUSES AND OTHER ATTACHED HOMES====>SEE THIS IS A COMPOND SUBJECT AND HENCE PLURAL ...AND THIS IS WHY ARE IS USED AFTER THAT.
B=SMALL AND OLD
C= LOCATED IN CENTRAL CITIES
B and C are the characterstics of A.
OLD LOCATED IN CITIES doesnt makes sense....
hope it helps.


Ok - as per this structure - difficult: It has been more common for A that are relatively B and C.
B and C need to be parallel.
My point is - small and old is NOT parallel to located in central cities.
neither is 'that are relatively small and old' parallel to 'located in central cities'

perhaps 'that are relatively small and old' is parallel to 'that are located in central cities'
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 04 Jul 2013, 19:28
cumulonimbus wrote:


OPTION D is PERFECTLY RIGHT.
ACTUALLY D is like this:

difficult: It has been more common for A that are relatively B and C.

here:
A=SOME TOWNHOUSES AND OTHER ATTACHED HOMES====>SEE THIS IS A COMPOND SUBJECT AND HENCE PLURAL ...AND THIS IS WHY ARE IS USED AFTER THAT.
B=SMALL AND OLD
C= LOCATED IN CENTRAL CITIES
B and C are the characterstics of A.
OLD LOCATED IN CITIES doesnt makes sense....
hope it helps.


Ok - as per this structure - difficult: It has been more common for A that are relatively B and C.
B and C need to be parallel.
My point is - small and old is NOT parallel to located in central cities.
neither is 'that are relatively small and old' parallel to 'located in central cities'

perhaps 'that are relatively small and old' is parallel to 'that are located in central cities'[/quote]

hi,
IMO B and C are parallel there is no parallel......
see the condition required for the things to be parallel

1. Identify Lists
 Presence of certain words called markers indicate presence of a list.
– Words such as: and, or, but, either..or, not..but, rather than, from..to, both..and
– Certain verbs that show similarity such as: is, represents, appears
Note: This is not an exhaustive list. There may be more words that acts as markers.
2. Check Validity of Lists
 All elements of the list must talk about a common topic/theme/idea.
3. Check Correctness (or parallelism) of Lists
 All elements of list must maintain same structure
 i.e. Order of appearance of words must be the same
 Each element of list must play same role.

here all three condition is satisfied.
===>parallelism marker is there.
===>talking about same thing.
===>playing same role:they are telling cgaracterstics of something.

it doesnt matters that if they dont appear similar in wordings then they are not parallel.

hope it helps.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 22 Jul 2013, 09:19
egmat wrote:
Hi there,

I don't think usage of comma changes the meaning in choice E. It's just that this usage of comma is incorrect. Use of "and" between "small" and "old" makes it clear that here we have a list already. This means that the first main list has only two entities, and hence, there should not be any comma before "and". But there is meaning change in choice E.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Shraddha, what in your opinion makes C wrong?
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 23 Jul 2013, 05:28
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vibhav wrote:
egmat wrote:
Hi there,

I don't think usage of comma changes the meaning in choice E. It's just that this usage of comma is incorrect. Use of "and" between "small" and "old" makes it clear that here we have a list already. This means that the first main list has only two entities, and hence, there should not be any comma before "and". But there is meaning change in choice E.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Shraddha, what in your opinion makes C wrong?


Hi Vaibhav,

We can discard choice C because here "which are relatively small and odd" is placed between two comma pairs. Such placement makes this clause non-essential. However, from the context of the sentence, we know that this clause is essential because conversion from ownership to rental properties has been more common for the "relatively small and odd houses".

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 25 Jul 2013, 06:53
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In c, we have a which, which forms a non-essential modifier. So c is incorrect
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2013, 18:03
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D. A comma before 'and' requires the clause after 'and' to start with 'that'. For instance, "homes that are relatively small and old, and that are located in central cities"
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Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority [#permalink] New post 31 Aug 2013, 02:41
egmat wrote:
vibhav wrote:
egmat wrote:
Hi there,

I don't think usage of comma changes the meaning in choice E. It's just that this usage of comma is incorrect. Use of "and" between "small" and "old" makes it clear that here we have a list already. This means that the first main list has only two entities, and hence, there should not be any comma before "and". But there is meaning change in choice E.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha


Shraddha, what in your opinion makes C wrong?


Hi Vaibhav,

We can discard choice C because here "which are relatively small and odd" is placed between two comma pairs. Such placement makes this clause non-essential. However, from the context of the sentence, we know that this clause is essential because conversion from ownership to rental properties has been more common for the "relatively small and odd houses".

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
Shraddha



I dont get why B is wrong ???? B is similar to D except for the length .
Re: A 2009 study from the California State Housing Authority   [#permalink] 31 Aug 2013, 02:41
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