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A_____ At the local fair, the manager allows children under

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A_____ At the local fair, the manager allows children under [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 03:01
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A_____ At the local fair, the manager allows children under five to enter free.
B_____ At the local fair, they allow children under five to enter free.

Please help me understand which sentence is correct and why

Sentence B, what is they referring to?

Source GC Grammar Book
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 03:15
sdas wrote:
A_____ At the local fair, the manager allows children under five to enter free.
B_____ At the local fair, they allow children under five to enter free.

Please help me understand which sentence is correct and why

Sentence B, what is they referring to?

Source GC Grammar Book


B is wrong, "they" doesn't referring to anything.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 03:21
sdas wrote:
A_____ At the local fair, the manager allows children under five to enter free.
B_____ At the local fair, they allow children under five to enter free.

Please help me understand which sentence is correct and why

Sentence B, what is they referring to?

Source GC Grammar Book


sentence A is correct because it says the manager allows . If u were entering a fair and u were stopped means somebody stopped u. the fair cudn have stopped u . right?

sentence B says they allow, what is they referring to? the fair? which is logically incorrect. which means there is no proper antecedent for they
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 03:53
I have the same understanding. But answer choice B is correct as per Gmat club grammar book.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2013, 07:06
A. At the local fair (prepositional phrase) , the manager (emphasis on THE manager - Singular) allows ( Singular verb) children under five to enter free.

Here the meaning is ambiguous
Meaning 1 : Is it the manger of the local fair who is allowing ? Working at the local fair, may be .
Meaning 2 : The manager at the local fair . For eg. Manager from govt , who allows children programs at fair .

At the local fair , the manager allows ...

This is because , manager is modified by fair .


B.At the local fair, they allow children under five to enter free.

Correct , they modifies local fair.

Though ambiguous , but modifier is rightly placed.

BTW , if you know ans , then you can give justification :P
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 08:01
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As far as form, structure and logic are concerned, it is ok to take that the manger, either by himself or as a decision maker allows children under five to enter free. A perfect sentence
But I can’t find fault with B either, especially with ‘they’, because we have certain usages known as place - value words or phrases, whose job is just to fill up the space to facilitate the easy flow of a sentence. It can be anywhere, either in the beginning or in the middle. But they will not have a referent

Examples;
1. They say that in May, the temperature shoots up to 45*C. Who are the they here; no one in particular. It is just an accepted usage. That is all to it.
2. It is said in the survey that Singh’s rating is on the up. What does the it refer to: Nothing in particular
3. In adolescence, they say that we fall to many carnal temptations. Who in particular says that? None in specific

So, you see, in pronoun references, as long as one is not absurd, and as long as he can communicate with reasonable clarity, we can get going rather than get stuck.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 10:15
daagh wrote:
As far as form, structure and logic are concerned, it is ok to take that the manager, either by himself or as a decision maker allows children under five to enter free. A perfect sentence
But I can’t find fault with B either, especially with ‘they’, because we have certain usages known as place - value words or phrases, whose job is just to fill up the space to facilitate the easy flow of a sentence. It can be anywhere, either in the beginning or in the middle. But they will not have a referent

Examples;
1. The say that in May, the temperature shoots up to 45*C. Who are the they here; no one in particular. It is just an accepted usage. That is all to it.
2. It is said in the survey that Singh’s rating is on the up. What does the it refer to: Nothing in particular
3. In adolescence, they say that we fall to many carnal temptations. Who in particular says that? None in specific

So, you see, in pronoun references, as long as one is not absurd, and as long as he can communicate with reasonable clarity, we can get going rather than get stuck.


Thanks Daagh, need little more clarity

The examples you mentioned, a pronoun with ambiguous antecedent, they are acceptable in GMAT. But does these sentenced play the role of independent or dependent clauses? In my example, then would choice A not make more concise sense, since that is what is confusing me choice between a and b...
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 19:32
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You see, both are simple sentences with a just verb of their own. A simple sentence will always be an independent clause, because it has neither a dependent clause (in which case, it will become a complex sentence) nor another independent clause (called a compound sentence) with its own subject and more necessarily a verb. But you don’t go by concision when the settings are different. There may be so many fairs without an independent manger and so many fairs without a pool of administrators at the spot. For example, the decision may be taken in the board rooms of the company, rather than at the fair site. So depending upon what the context demands, one has to decide about concision.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2013, 01:46
Daagh: "That every citizen abides by the traffic rules is important" can you please explain this sentence? what is the subject and what role pronoun "that" is playing and its relation to verb
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2013, 04:21
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use of they is ambiguos in sentence B. Hence incorrect
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2013, 05:31
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@sdas

Quote:
That every citizen abides by the traffic rules is important" can you please explain this sentence?

What is the subject and what role pronoun "that" is playing and its relation to verb


The subject in this case is the noun clause – that every citizen abides by the traffic rules; the verb is the ‘is’; the word ‘that’ is used to introduce the noun clause and has no special role than that. But definitely, ‘that’ is not a pronoun here. So let’s not get confused.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2013, 06:17
Brilliant Daagh, this is where I am getting confused, to recognize a Pronoun "that" and a noun clause "that"

Request you to please help me with this.....
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2013, 07:23
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Whenever that is used to introduce a noun clause, however much you try, you cannot find a referent for the word” that” .Therefore, whenever ‘that is used as a conjunction to introduce a clause – (in this case every citizen …. Blah blah,) you will invariably find a verb to indicate that it is a clause
On the contrary, in the case of ‘that’, which acts as a pronoun, ‘that’ will have to refer to something specific. Ex: I want to buy the colored shirt that is hanging in the far end; here ‘that’ refers to the colored shirt.
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2013, 07:47
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I think it's worth mentioning that in Sentence Correction, regardless of context, a precise noun is always better than a pronoun. A pronoun can create ambiguity, even if it correctly agrees and refers back to one specific word. "The manager doesn't allow children" will always be preferable to "he doesn't allow children", even if the he is clear. Of course, this is not always an option on SC, but take it if you can.

Hope this helps!
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent [#permalink] New post 13 Mar 2013, 10:17
Thank all. Been informative discussion. My takeaway...I need to be careful of "that" as pronoun or "conjunction". Also this blog of EGmat is helpful http://e-gmat.com/blogs/?p=261

Is the same applicable for other demonstrative pronouns like "those/this/these" etc?

Will appreciate some examples and explanations....I am really struggling
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Re: Confusion with pronoun referent   [#permalink] 13 Mar 2013, 10:17
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