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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo

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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink] New post 06 Aug 2006, 10:35
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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?


A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
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Last edited by akkane on 17 Apr 2013, 16:15, edited 2 times in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2006, 14:09
I will go with B here
Michaelangelo could have started the painting in 1507 when the coin was available and he could have used the stock in 1508 and still could have painted the remaining portion...
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 [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2006, 14:57
the OA is B. This question is from MGMAT's GMAT test 2. The OE is attached below:

The correct answer is B.

The conclusion of the argument is that Michelangelo must have completed the painting between 1507 and 1509. The basis for that claim is that the painting depicts a coin that did not exist before 1507 and that it contains a pigment that Michelangelo ceased using in 1509. We are asked to find an assumption that completes the logic of this argument.

Choice A is incorrect. We do not need to assume that no stocks of the pigment existed after 1509. The argument is concerned only with the year in which Michelangelo stopped using the pigment.

Choice B is correct. In order to conclude that the painting must have been completed before 1509 on the basis of the pigment, we must assume that he did not begin the painting before 1509 using the old pigment and complete the painting after 1509 with the new pigment.

Choice C is incorrect. The fact that the general public knew of the coin in 1507 is irrelevant to the conclusion.

Choice D is incorrect. The fact that the panel cannot be tested for age does not relate to either the coin or the pigment, the two bases for the conclusion.

Choice E is incorrect. Whether Michelangelo's painting style changed during this period does not relate to either the coin or the pigment.
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 [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2006, 15:59
Guys, I'm lost in the michelangelo painting!

Can anyone explain how B was the assumption?

I didnt understand the OE!

"In order to conclude that the painting must have been completed before 1509 on the basis of the pigment, we must assume that he did not begin the painting before 1509 using the old pigment and complete the painting after 1509 with the new pigment."

He could have started the painting several years before 1507, could have painted the coin in 1507 and completed the painting in 1509 before he stopped using the old pigment.

Am I reading too much into the argument or too little?
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 [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2006, 20:07
shoonya wrote:
Jayanak, how could it be B? The passage clearly says that the painter worked on the painting between 1507 and 1509. How is it possible that M'Angelo didn't work on it over a course of several years. If B is true, then it means that we should have seen the cheaper pigment on the painting.


The passage doesnot state that it was completed before 1509..... it is the author assuming that it must have been completed.
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 [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2006, 01:36
Excellent CR and outstanding discussion. :-D

I think both (B) and (C) could be possible assumptions here, but (B) is assumed to a greater extent.

With (C): Think about that 1507 minted coin for a moment. How could Mikelangelo have been so privileged to have seen, and included in his painting, an ordinary coin (there is no reference in the passage that it was a rare "collector`s item") that most laypeople had never even known existed?? Had Mikelangelo been a King or member of the royalty, perhaps so, but he was just a common painter during his time..

(B) on the other hand is very plausibile. Painters often take years to complete a single work of art, especially some of the their better known pieces. The evidence makes no mention that only the older pigment was used in the painting, therefore leaving open the possibility that both the new and old pigment were used in a combination to complete the masterpiece.
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A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2006, 13:14
A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?


a) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

b) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

c) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

d) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

e) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
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CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 10:35
Lets hear your rationale not just the the answer!!!

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 11:36
asaf wrote:
Lets hear your rationale not just the the answer!!!

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.


I think B.
It's either A and B for me. D and E are out of scope. For C, it is essentially restating part of the argument.
For A, even if it still has in stock, MA can still abandon it.
For B, if MA work over a course of time and completed in say, 1510, the painting can still have the pigment. Therefore, the painting can only be worked on from 1507 to 1509, which is two years, not longer than that.
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 12:05
...For C, it is essentially restating part of the argument...

bkk145, I think C gives a different ideas than what we have in the stem. Can you read it again and C if you agree with me? and if you do then how would you elliminate C?
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 12:17
asaf wrote:
...For C, it is essentially restating part of the argument...

bkk145, I think C gives a different ideas than what we have in the stem. Can you read it again and C if you agree with me? and if you do then how would you elliminate C?


You know that the coin was minted that year from the stem. So it doesn't matter, in my opinion, whether the public know about the coin before or after. It is still minted that year. I guess I should have said irrelevant, not restating part of the argument.
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 12:41
bkk145 wrote:
asaf wrote:
...For C, it is essentially restating part of the argument...

bkk145, I think C gives a different ideas than what we have in the stem. Can you read it again and C if you agree with me? and if you do then how would you elliminate C?


You know that the coin was minted that year from the stem. So it doesn't matter, in my opinion, whether the public know about the coin before or after. It is still minted that year. I guess I should have said irrelevant, not restating part of the argument.


So if Angelo knew about the coin prior to that year, doesn't that mean he could also know how it was going to look or appear?
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 12:49
I would go with D. as it says the same with the passage, since we cannot find the age of it. the passage is based on that assumption.
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 [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2007, 13:05
asaf wrote:
bkk145 wrote:
asaf wrote:
...For C, it is essentially restating part of the argument...

bkk145, I think C gives a different ideas than what we have in the stem. Can you read it again and C if you agree with me? and if you do then how would you elliminate C?


You know that the coin was minted that year from the stem. So it doesn't matter, in my opinion, whether the public know about the coin before or after. It is still minted that year. I guess I should have said irrelevant, not restating part of the argument.


So if Angelo knew about the coin prior to that year, doesn't that mean he could also know how it was going to look or appear?


he could, but you don't know if MA is in general public or not. He might not be in general public or might be. Since you don't know about that, it is irrelevant.
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 10:04
Stem clearly states that MichelAngelo made a switch to use a cheaper option after 1509. So, we can elliminate B right?
Wrong. OA is B.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 10:10
I agree the (B) is correct..............but why is (A) wrong?

If MA had the stock of "abandoned pigment", he could have used it
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 10:34
A is a strech...
Just because he abondoned its use does not mean argument saying/assuming that the pigment ceased to exists!
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 10:51
asaf wrote:
Lets hear your rationale not just the the answer!!!

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.
He just stopped using the old pigment does not mean that the pigment itself does not exist after 1509

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.
He might have worked over the painting over the course of year and might have drawn coin and used the color only during 07-09

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.
If it was not known among general public, how does he know that ?

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.
This looks correct to me ...since they could not test the actual age with whatever method they have ...thats whay they are going for this kind of test analysis

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
Lets say that he has changed the style ...it can be related only to pigment not to coin ..since coin did not exist before 1507 ...and he stopped using the pigment bwecause the cheaper one was available ..even this does not have to do anything with the style ...infact it suggest that he might have used the same style onwards also ...but the same thing .this inference is irrelevant to the sentence
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 10:58
asaf wrote:
Lets hear your rationale not just the the answer!!!

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.



Eventhough the OA is released, B is not correct because how do we assume that he stopped working on painting after 1507-09? suppose if MA stoped working on painting only after 1515? what if MA started working on this painting in 1507-09 and ended it in 1510 or 1515 and then stoped working on?

so B ambigious. A and D are possible.

what s the source?
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 13:21
My pick, even before knowing the OA, continues to be B.
The important part is the statement that michalangelo did start at a particular time and finished by 1509. Clearly there is an assumption that inspite of the coin with a central figure, abandonment of a pigment, he did not paint it over a perid of years. If he started in 1505 and then in 1507 he painted a coin in the central figure, simply because he painted that bit only in 1507 and lets say finished it in 1509. Even with this we have proved the statement wrong that he did not start it until 1507.

As far as C is concerned i don't think it matters whether the public had any idea about it. What matters is that he was familiar with the coin and it was available in 1507.

D is hardly important because today you can draw a painting on a 17th century piece of wood and radio carbon dating will never give you any accurate dates exact to a month or a year. Besides you are missing the whole stem focussing on actual start and finish dates.

asaf wrote:
Lets hear your rationale not just the the answer!!!

A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.

E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
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Re: CR - Michel Angelo [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2007, 14:24
A newly discovered painting on wooden panel by Michelangelo must have been completed after 1507 but before 1509. It cannot have been painted earlier than 1507 because one of its central figures carries a coin that was not minted until that year. It cannot have been painted after 1509 because it contains a pigment that Michelangelo is known to have abandoned when a cheaper alternative became available in that year.

Which of the following is an assumption on which the argument depends?

A) No stocks of the abandoned pigment existed after 1509.
Irrelevant: Even if they existed, Michael didnt use them.

B) Michelangelo did not work on the painting over the course of several years.
Seems like an Answer. Lets say Michael took 10 years to make the painting. He painted the coin in 1507, used pigment in 1509 and completed the painting in 1517.

C) The coin depicted in the painting was known to general public in 1507.
Irrelevant: Minting of the coin has nothing to do with general public. Author compared Mint Date.

D) The wooden panel on which the painting was executed cannot be tested accurately for age.
If wood panel is tested for age, then rest of the argument need not be done. But again, the age of woodpanel may /may not coincide with the painting. What if Wood panel was given to Michael by his father ? ...huh? :lol:


E) Michelangelo's painting style did not change between 1507 and 1509.
Out of Scope.
Re: CR - Michel Angelo   [#permalink] 27 Aug 2007, 14:24
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