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According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of

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According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2009, 09:01
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. According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College an University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.
A) than those that charge
B) than are charging
C) than to charge
D) as charge
E) as those charging
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

Last edited by PiyushK on 11 Aug 2014, 20:59, edited 2 times in total.
OA is edited E to D
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2012, 17:44
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Vinay911, not sure if you are still looking for a response on this question. But here it is anyway (I am royally late in responding to this one :( )
As many posters have commented, we have to establish the correct equation here. Simplistically here is the equation we are looking for:

Since your doubt pertains to choices D and E, I will only focus on those. The difference between these two choices is in terms of what is there in the blank below. Choice D has nothing in this blank and choice E has "those that". Now you may question that choice E actually states "those charging". Remember that "those charging" is equivalent of "those that charge".

For example : cow that grazes all day long = cow grazing all day long

Ok now lets look at both constructions in terms of the equation:

Per choice D - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as ____ charge over $16000
Per choice E - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as those that charge over $16000

Now what are the entities being compared - colleges that charge < $8000 & colleges that charge > 16000
Choice E clearly states that comparison.

Whereas if you look choice D, it is missing the "COLLEGE" part of the comparison. It only states the "charge" part.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions regarding this.

Regards,
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 01 Oct 2012, 07:52
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imhimanshu wrote:
Hi Payal,
Isnt the option D a classic case of ellipsis. i.e Colleges is understood by default. Please share your reasoning

Thanks
Himanshu
egmat wrote:

Per choice D - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as ____ charge over $16000
Per choice E - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as those that charge over $16000

Now what are the entities being compared - colleges that charge < $8000 & colleges that charge > 16000

Regards,
Payal


Himanshu and IndianExpress,

Let's assume that Choice D is fine with college actually omitted through ellipsis. Now let us bring back this word "college" and read the sentence:
More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as colleges charge over $16000.

Now let us do sentence structure analysis here:
1: More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as
2: colleges charge over $16000.

Now given this sentence, what is the comparison. IMO, the comparison is no longer clear. Are we comparing the number of colleges or are we comparing the action of charging the fees. Per the intended comparison, we need to compare the colleges, more specifically the number of colleges. One side of comparison is the number of colleges with certain characteristic. The other side of comparison is the number of colleges with certain other characteristic. Now to make the above sentence correct we need to add "that" between colleges and charge as follows:

More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as colleges THAT charge over $16000.

Let's take one more set of comparison sentences and see ellipsis at play: Here see how the comparison is no longer between the number of colleges. It is between the action of charging fees.

West coast colleges charge 2X as much fees as east coast colleges.
West coast colleges charge 2X as much fees as east coast colleges do.
West coast colleges charge 2X as much fees as east coast colleges charge.

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Payal
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2012, 14:42
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removing the clutter, the stem reduces to :

more than three times as many institutions charge fees of under $8000 than those that charge over $16,000.

Thus the constn we need to zoom in is : As X........As Y

X - Institutions ( Plural ) , --------this calls for a Plural Y (Those)

leading to E :

more than three times AS many institutions charge fees of under $8,000 a year ................ AS those charging over $16,000.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 07 Mar 2012, 02:05
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The OA seems to be E according to my document.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 01 Oct 2012, 08:06
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IndianExpress wrote:
It would also be great if you can clarify the concept behind "those charging" being equivalent to "those that charge". As I understand, "those charging" is present continuous while "those that charge" is simple present.
Thanks a ton!


Hello IndianExpress,

I will now address your question on tense "those charging" and "those that charge".

Those charging
those that charge

Here "charging" is not a verb. So it does not have any verb tense. It is a verb-ing modifier, which definitely represents an action but not in the role of a verb. It basically takes on whatever verb tense the main clause has.

Yesterday night the sky looked beautiful with the stars shining so brightly.
Tonight the sky looks beautiful with the stars shining so brightly.

Notice the verb-ing "shining". Given what I have explained here, please give me your analysis of these two sentences in terms of the timing of the actions - specifically the action of shining of stars.

I look forward to your response. Also, please review this article on verb-ing modifiers

Thanks,

Payal
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 24 Jan 2013, 06:47
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[quote="Sachin9]
Had we had 'as those that charge' as another option, would this have been a better choice?
Its true that we are supposed to choose the best of the 5 answer choices. I am just trying to understand whether parallelism is absolutely needed as in this case, the parallelism is not with respect to structure but with respect to the meaning..

Please let us know which one would be preferred: parallelism with structure or parallelism with meaning.
Regards,
Sach[/quote]

Hi Sachin,

Well, "as those that charge" is certainly the correct construction. However, on GMAT, out of 5 naswer choices, only 1 will be correct. You will never have to choose between two grammatacally as well as logically correct naswer choices.
"as those that charge" and "as those chraging" convey the same meaning. These are just two different ways of writing the same thing and both are equalyy correct. So I doubt, you will ever have to choose from such options.
However, if you had these two options then yes, you would have gone with the later to maintain absolutely identical parallelism in the sentence.

Now, in parallelism, we try to keep the entities as grammatically similar as possible. But, grammatical parallelism must not be maintained at the cost of logical parallelism. Always remember that LOGIC is utmost important in parallelism. Logic governs the grammatical structure of entities in the list. That's why many a times we see "imperfect list" where the entities do not always have identical grammatical structure. We must maintain the identical grammatical structure as long as we can do it. But the logic must be maintained all the time. You may read the following article on this topic that discusses the nuances of this topic:
parallelism-grammar-vs-logic-141946.html

Hope this helps. :)
Thanks.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 08 Nov 2013, 09:32
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Hi there!

Since this is a controversial question, our team is discussing it. We'll get back to you as soon as we can!

Regards,
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According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2014, 07:39
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D is the right answer.

Format of comparison changes with moving verb inside as many as or keeping it be before as many as.

For such question always look at the structure and make your own sentence in simple english.

E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as killed in Vietnam war. (my standard simple sentence)

bcz Americans were killed is inside as many .... as; we do not need repetition of Americans after as we just need a verb for a good construction of sentence.

Now look at this original question you will find D is technically perfect .

Another Eg:
E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as Indians were killed in battle of Panipath.
E.g 3 times as many Americans were killed in Civil war as Indians in battle of Panipath.

Now do'er of action are different, thus above comparison is valid.


Go to this link:
according-to-a-1996-survey-by-the-national-association-of-69882.html

HARD WIRE these simple examples in your brain as it save precious time while choosing technically right answer.
List down every possible way of comparison sentence structure and hard wire it in brain.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2009, 10:05
[E]?
Since you have 3x AS many, you need as in the comparison and not than, so eliminate A, B and C.
Need to compare universities to universities, so need those.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 07 Jun 2010, 22:15
I think this was simple thats y I missed the correct OA.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2012, 01:33
Experts @e-gmat could you help us here. OA is E . But the between D & E its a nightmare to pick the right one :oops:
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2012, 20:22
is those here referring to independent institutions ...

please explain..
i selected d as i overlooked those in the option
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2012, 21:52
mohan514 wrote:
is those here referring to independent institutions ...

please explain..
i selected d as i overlooked those in the option


Hi,

Do we have any other Referrent of THOSE other than INSTITUTIONS = what can THOSE refer back to other than institutions = Guess That's the onliest logical antecedent of THOSE in the stimulus.

Lets substitute THOSE = INSTITUTIONS in our equation and see if it still holds :

More than three time AS many INSTITUTIONS charge 8000$...................... AS INSTITUTIONS charging 16000$ ( Seems Logical, Equation still holds )

ie institutions charging 16000 = x , institutions charging 8000 = 3x
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Aug 2012, 22:49
vinay911 wrote:
Experts @e-gmat could you help us here. OA is E . But the between D & E its a nightmare to pick the right one :oops:


According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of College an University Business Officers, more than three times as many independent institutions of higher education charge tuition and fees of under $8,000 a year than those that charge over $16,000.

D) as charge - as charge over $16,000 sounds incorrect because independent institutions is not singular
E) as those charging - Correct because plural & charging.
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 25 Sep 2012, 08:31
Hi Payal,
Isnt the option D a classic case of ellipsis. i.e Colleges is understood by default. Please share your reasoning

Thanks
Himanshu
egmat wrote:

Per choice D - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as ____ charge over $16000
Per choice E - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as those that charge over $16000

Now what are the entities being compared - colleges that charge < $8000 & colleges that charge > 16000
Choice E clearly states that comparison.

Whereas if you look choice D, it is missing the "COLLEGE" part of the comparison. It only states the "charge" part.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions regarding this.

Regards,
Payal

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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 26 Sep 2012, 07:46
I also chose D based on ellepsis.
Payal - Kindly clarify the ellepsis concept in this scenario. It would also be great if you can clarify the concept behind "those charging" being equivalent to "those that charge". As I understand, "those charging" is present continuous while "those that charge" is simple present.

Thanks a ton!
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 01 Oct 2012, 04:50
as many X as Y ... as many institutions as other colleges
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 01 Oct 2012, 09:47
Thanks for the amazing explanation Payal. Your explanations are always superb.

I think I am pretty clear on both the concepts now. Just to re-iterate, ellepsis can only be used if there is absolutely no ambiguity regarding the meaning. I think this is the only rule around ellepsis. Let me know if I am not understanding this correctly.
In the sentence in question, choice D actually makes the sentence a little confusing, hence ellepsis cannot be used.

Regarding the verb-ing modifiers, I am actually familiar with the concept that they take the verb tense of the main clause. In fact, verb-ing modifiers are pretty common and I myself might have used them multiple times in the past.
I was somehow not able to apply the concept at the right place, probably need to practice a little more.

In both the sentences that you have mentioned in your post, the verb-ing modifier (shining) does actually take the respective verb tense (looked and looks respectively).

Thanks again!!!!
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2013, 19:55
egmat wrote:
Vinay911, not sure if you are still looking for a response on this question. But here it is anyway (I am royally late in responding to this one :( )
As many posters have commented, we have to establish the correct equation here. Simplistically here is the equation we are looking for:

Since your doubt pertains to choices D and E, I will only focus on those. The difference between these two choices is in terms of what is there in the blank below. Choice D has nothing in this blank and choice E has "those that". Now you may question that choice E actually states "those charging". Remember that "those charging" is equivalent of "those that charge".

For example : cow that grazes all day long = cow grazing all day long

Ok now lets look at both constructions in terms of the equation:

Per choice D - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as ____ charge over $16000
Per choice E - More than 3x as many colleges charge certain fees as those that charge over $16000

Now what are the entities being compared - colleges that charge < $8000 & colleges that charge > 16000
Choice E clearly states that comparison.

Whereas if you look choice D, it is missing the "COLLEGE" part of the comparison. It only states the "charge" part.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions regarding this.

Regards,
Payal


Hi Payal,
Amazing explanation.. I, however, have a doubt here.

Had we had 'as those that charge' as another option, would this have been a better choice?
Its true that we are supposed to choose the best of the 5 answer choices. I am just trying to understand whether parallelism is absolutely needed as in this case, the parallelism is not with respect to structure but with respect to the meaning..

Please let us know which one would be preferred: parallelism with structure or parallelism with meaning.
Regards,
Sach
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Re: According to a 1996 survey by the National Association of   [#permalink] 19 Jan 2013, 19:55
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