Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of : GMAT Sentence Correction (SC)
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# Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of

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27 Jul 2012, 09:51
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Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest India, the combination of a reliable supply of water and good growing conditions both encouraged farming traditions that, in places, endure in at least 6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged farming traditions that, in places, endure in
(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming traditions that have, in places, endured for
(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged farming traditions that, in places, endured for
(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged farming traditions that have, in places, endured
(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming traditions that have, in places, been enduring for
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27 Jul 2012, 10:08
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correct to phrase to use is "combination of X and Y" not combination of X and of Y". This leaves us with choice (A) and (B)
(A)"Both" is redundant here we have the word combination to do that.
"endure" has tense problem it should be endured.
endure in is not correct idiom

(B)correct takes care all the points mentioned above
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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27 Jul 2012, 16:56
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You have a combination of X and Y, not of X and of Y, so you can get rid of (C), (D), and (E). A 'combination of' implies two things. Therefore, 'both' is redundant. And just like that answer (B). Also of note, we want the present perfect construction, 'have endured at least 6,000 years' because the action is still ongoing.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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31 Oct 2013, 08:07
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In this sentence, the repetition of the preposition "of" would not reinforce parallelism (and be optional, in this case)?
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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01 Nov 2013, 07:15
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betterscore wrote:
Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of
northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest
India, the combination of a reliable supply of water
and good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in
at least
6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

I think the main explanations are given in the first posts.

The trick here is to see that you need: "the combination of X and Y". if you cannot find out this type of idiom look closer at the meaning of the sentence.

Here, there is a combination of two things, so you need a reliable supply of water and something parallel with it (Ex: I need a combination of vodka and of red bull to enjoy my stay => does not make sense. You need to have a combination of vodka and redbull to enjoy your stay!) . The only answer right is B!

Hope it helps!
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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09 Jan 2014, 01:37
ChrisLele wrote:
You have a combination of X and Y, not of X and of Y, so you can get rid of (C), (D), and (E). A 'combination of' implies two things. Therefore, 'both' is redundant. And just like that answer (B). Also of note, we want the present perfect construction, 'have endured at least 6,000 years' because the action is still ongoing.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

Why is "have... been enduring" in E not correct? I understand that "combination of X and of Y" is incorrect, but I mean specifically the "have been enduring" part. Does "have been enduring" not imply that something in the past still is relevant today?
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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10 Feb 2014, 04:53
I don't have any problem of choosing the correct answer. What confuses me is the that following traditions. It seems that the sentence perfectly works without a that. So why you put a that here in every selections?
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10 Feb 2014, 05:08
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ydanyang wrote:
I don't have any problem of choosing the correct answer. What confuses me is the that following traditions. It seems that the sentence perfectly works without a that. So why you put a that here in every selections?

For convenience, I am striking out the modifiers and prep. phrases.

Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest India, the combination of a reliable supply of water and good growing conditions encouraged farming traditions that have, in places, endured for at least 6,000 years.

The subject and verb are as indicated above.

Suppose you remove that, you have a run-on sentence as follows.

The combination of X and Y encouraged farming traditions thathave endured for at least 6000 years.

Subject - verb - object - verb again

Clearly, the above construction is wrong. To correct the same, we either split the sentence using a conjunction or a relative pronoun (which becomes the subject for the relative pronoun clause) and thus avoiding run-on.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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10 Feb 2014, 05:14
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ydanyang wrote:
I don't have any problem of choosing the correct answer. What confuses me is the that following traditions. It seems that the sentence perfectly works without a that. So why you put a that here in every selections?

... the combination of (a reliable supply of water) and (good growing conditions) encouraged farming traditions that have, in places, endured for at least 6,000 years.

we can split this sentence into two parts:
If we remove that, we get-

the combination of X and Y encouraged farming traditions have endured for at least...

the combination- encouraged- traditions- have endured

Subject- verb- object/ subject- verb

Combination- subject case (subject of the verb encouraged)
however
farming tradition (FT) is in subject and object case both
object of the verb - encouraged
subject of the verb- have endured

Combination encouraged FT have endured ... This construction is flawed.

Hence "that" is required.

Combination encouraged FT that have endured...

Combination encouraged FT
(FT) that have endured... "that" is the subject of the verb "have endured"

we can also split the sentence and see this-

1) the combination of X and Y encouraged farming traditions.
2) these traditions have endured for at least 6000 years

"That" is used to connect these two sentences. We can not do without a connector here.

Let's take another example:

I have bought a new phone. Phonehas awesome features.
I have bought a new phonethat has awesome features.

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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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12 Jul 2014, 05:42
Easiest way to strike at it :

idiom combination of X and Y

and Sentence is talking about period so for would be used here , lets scan for these world in our choices

Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of
northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest
India, the combination of a reliable supply of water
and good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in at least
6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for (B is having combination of x and Y , for both ---Condition match so correct)

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for
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28 Aug 2014, 01:22
betterscore wrote:
Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of
northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest
India, the combination of a reliable supply of water
and good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in
at least
6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

May anyone help to choose the correct answer from the view point of the verb tense?
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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18 Sep 2014, 09:13
ChrisLele wrote:
You have a combination of X and Y, not of X and of Y, so you can get rid of (C), (D), and (E). A 'combination of' implies two things. Therefore, 'both' is redundant. And just like that answer (B). Also of note, we want the present perfect construction, 'have endured at least 6,000 years' because the action is still ongoing.

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

Is it correct to assume that the "farming traditions" are still ongoing - to justify usage of "have".

My questions is - can we justify the usage of "have" by this rule - "When we are talking now in the present – about something in the past - we use Present Perfect. "
e.g. They seem to have developed this habit before their extinction 600 years ago.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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19 Sep 2014, 01:08
@sa222 i suppose you got the meaning of the sentence wrong. "have endured" , implies that it is still process.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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19 Sep 2014, 01:36
sa2222 wrote:
Is it correct to assume that the "farming traditions" are still ongoing - to justify usage of "have".

Yes, from the context, it should be quite evident that farming traditions are still ongoing.

sa2222 wrote:
My questions is - can we justify the usage of "have" by this rule - "When we are talking now in the present – about something in the past - we use Present Perfect. "
e.g. They seem to have developed this habit before their extinction 600 years ago.

What you are talking about is a specific usage of present perfect. For example:

My friends have watched the movie.

This clearly means that the act of watching the movie is finished at some unspecified time in the past.

However, there is another usage of present perfect. That usage depicts that something started in the past, and has continued up to the present time. For example:

My parents have owned a car for more than ten years now.

Here, there is no reason to believe that my parents don't own the car now. The sentence under consideration, falls in this category.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses present perfect tense, its application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email-id, I can send you the corresponding section.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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19 Sep 2014, 07:16
Hello Education aisle and WaterFlowsUp.. thanks for your replies.

Please find the two links below - which discusses other usages of have been as well - other than the regular usage of "something that started in the past but continues to the present".. or "its effect continues to the present. These are OG problems and even OG explanations conform to these usages.

http://www.beatthegmat.com/og-12-q-73-t38806.html

Another, to have been usage

http://www.beatthegmat.com/a-proposal-h ... 02-15.html
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19 Sep 2014, 08:03
sa2222 wrote:
Please find the two links below - which discusses other usages of have been as well - other than the regular usage of "something that started in the past but continues to the present".. or "its effect continues to the present. These are OG problems and even OG explanations conform to these usages.

http://www.beatthegmat.com/og-12-q-73-t38806.html

Not sure what exactly to read in these links you have provided.

So, let me repeat what I mentioned in my last post. There are two primary usages of present perfect:

i) An event that has happened at some point before current time: Example - My friends have watched the movie.

ii) An event started in the past and is still continuing: Example - My parents have owned a car for more than ten years now.

The sentence under consideration falls under ii): Farming traditions started in the past (6000 years back) and are still continuing.

sa2222 wrote:

This is a completely different usage and does not come under the category of present perfect; to have been is grammatically called perfect infinitive and should not be confused with present perfect.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses perfect infinitives, their application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email-id, I can send you the corresponding section.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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20 Sep 2014, 00:20
betterscore wrote:
Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of
northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest
India, the combination of a reliable supply of water
and good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in
at least
6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

Hello experts,

If the choices were as below :

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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20 Sep 2014, 06:28
anujag24 wrote:
If the choices were as below :

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for

(D) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured

(E) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring
for

Hi! both are incorrect.

C: Clearly good growing conditions encouraged farming traditions in the past (from the context of the sentence, this happened 6000 years ago). So, simple past encouraged should be used, not present perfect have encouraged.

D: At the very least, both is redundant, since we already have combination.
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Last edited by EducationAisle on 23 Sep 2014, 03:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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21 Sep 2014, 00:47
EducationAisle wrote:
sa2222 wrote:
Please find the two links below - which discusses other usages of have been as well - other than the regular usage of "something that started in the past but continues to the present".. or "its effect continues to the present. These are OG problems and even OG explanations conform to these usages.

http://www.beatthegmat.com/og-12-q-73-t38806.html

Not sure what exactly to read in these links you have provided.

So, let me repeat what I mentioned in my last post. There are two primary usages of present perfect:

i) An event that has happened at some point before current time: Example - My friends have watched the movie.

ii) An event started in the past and is still continuing: Example - My parents have owned a car for more than ten years now.

The sentence under consideration falls under ii): Farming traditions started in the past (6000 years back) and are still continuing.

sa2222 wrote:

This is a completely different usage and does not come under the category of present perfect; to have been is grammatically called perfect infinitive and should not be confused with present perfect.

p.s. Our book EducationAisle Sentence Correction Nirvana discusses perfect infinitives, their application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email-id, I can send you the corresponding section.

Hello EducationAisle,

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. So, the second one is Perfect Infinitive usage - which can be used when we are talking about to two future events and when occurrence of one future event is dependent on completion of another. Not sure - what the first usage is called. "They seem to have developed this habit before the Norweigan extinction 6000 years ago." Could you please point out/ PM me or share a link about other usages of Perfect Infinitives and shed some more light on this usage "The appear to have - a past event."

Thanks for your help!!
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Re: Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of [#permalink]

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26 Sep 2014, 23:27
Along the major rivers that traverse the deserts of northeast Africa, the Middle East, and northwest India, the combination of a reliable supply of water
and good growing conditions both encouraged farming traditions that, in places, endure in at least 6,000 years.

(A) good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endure in - Correct idiom is - Combination of X and Y. Use of both is incorrect. endure must be have endured to represent 6000 years. for should be used in place of in.

(B) good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, endured for

(C) of good growing conditions have encouraged
farming traditions that, in places, endured for - have should be used with endured here instead of encouraged

(D) of good growing conditions both encouraged
farming traditions that have, in places, endured - for is not present, incorrect idiom

(E) of good growing conditions encouraged farming
traditions that have, in places, been enduring for - Wrong Idiom
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