heyholetsgo wrote:
Although the first atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, to be identified was observed in the summer of 1898 by physicists Marie and Pierre Curie, it had not been published until December, 1898
A) Although the first atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, to be identified was observed in the summer of 1898 by physicists Marie and Pierre Curie, it had not been published until December, 1898
B) Although not published until December, 1898, in the summer of 1898 physicists Marie and Pierre Curie observed the first atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, to be identified
C) Although observed by physicists Marie and Pierre Curie in the summer of 1898, the discovery of the first identified atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, had not been published before December, 1898
D) The first atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, to be identified was observed in the summer of 1898 by physicists Marie and Pierre Curie, but the discovery was not published until December, 1898
E) The first identified atom of radium, the heaviest of the earth metals, was not published until December, 1898, while it was observed in the summer of 1898 by physicists Marie and Pierre Curie
apovit wrote:
generis egmat daagh if we see the sequence of the events in this sentence, then it is as follows:
|____________________________|_______________|____________
atom was discovered was not published until (by the end of)December 1898
(in summer of 1898)
should not we use "had not been published" instead of "was not published"To be more clear let us take this example:
By the end of December 1898, the discovery had not been published.-------> doesn't it make sense.
similarly,
Until December 1898, the discovery had not been published.
Because the discovery not being published is the first event and "until December 1898 " is the time marker of ending of December 1898.
Please explain.
hazelnut apovit , in reply to the highlighted question, "No. Because we can draw that time line, we should not use
past perfect. We need past perfect when we
cannot draw a time line. Then the past perfect verbs themselves tell us how to draw the time line."
He left the house when the police arrived.Did he leave the house
because the police arrived?
Or did he leave the house at the same time that the police arrived?
He had left the house when the police arrived.He left before the police came.
Unless we are told otherwise, we do not need to speculate about whether the arrival of the police caused his departure.
In British English, the use of past perfect is very common for recent events.It is also, according to GMAC,
incorrect.People in the U.S. say: I lost my keys. Would you help me to find them?
People trained in BE say: I have lost my keys. Would you help me to find them?
People trained in BE say: I've lost my keys. Would you help me to find them?
Speakers of BE just have to remember that we use past perfect only if
1) there is one mention of simple past OR a time marker that has the same effect; and
2) there are no sequence words such as
before, after, later, etc.
This principle was described by daagh and
egmat, above:
If two correct options use different constructions in which option X uses simple past only and option Y uses simple past + past perfect,
the usage of simple past is generally preferred over the usage of past perfect + simple past.
Corollaries:If only simple past to describe a sequence of events is correct, one of two things must be present:
• a time sequence word such as
before, after, previously, subsequently, later, etc.
• time references that are different. The earlier date is clear. If there are more than two dates, the sequence of dates is clear.
Correct:
After he heard and spoke in English for a few months, he was comfortable with its pronunciation.Correct:
For a few months beginning in the early summer of 2015, he heard and spoke in English frequently, and by December of that year he was comfortable with its pronunciation.The actual construction of past perfect, HAD/HAVE + past participle,
itself signals sequence.
We
do not need verbs to tell us sequence in the sentences above.
-- In the first, we have a sequence word,
after.-- In the second, we have two dates. The earlier one is clear.
Suspect:
After he had heard and spoken in English for a few months, he was comfortable with its pronunciation.Suspect:
For a few months beginning in the early summer of 2015 he had heard and spoken in English frequently, and by December of that year he was comfortable with its pronunciation. Why is this construction suspect?
1) it's redundant.
After tells us the sequence in #1. The time frame
from June 2015 to December of 2015 tells us the sequence in #2. We do not need the past perfect verb to mark the first event.
2) in addition to redundancy, auxiliary verbs such as
had often make what could be a crisp narrative into a slower, more distant narrative.
Another layer of time has been inserted between the events and the reader.
If you can, find another issue with which to eliminate one of the two options.
If you cannot find another issue, choose the option that uses simple past only.
Quote:
By the end of December 1898, the discovery had not been published.-------> doesn't it make sense.
similarly,
Until December 1898, the discovery had not been published.
Because the discovery not being published is the first event and "until December 1898 " is the time marker of ending of December 1898.
You cannot merely remove the earlier event and analyze the second one in isolation.
had not been published and
was not published convey the same logical fact.
But
we do not need "had not been." We already have sequence.
We know that the summer of 1898 is earlier than December 1898.
Event #1: The Curies observe/discover radium in the summer of 1898
Event #2: News of the discovery was published in December 1898, a few months after the discovery
Option D uses
Radium
was [first]
observed [SIMPLE PAST] in the summer of 1898 by the Curies, but their discovery
was not published[SIMPLE PAST] until December, 1898.
• Try the active voice
Maybe if I rewrite this sentence in active voice the issue will become clearer.
(This passive voice construction is one way that GMAC traps people into thinking that past perfect is necessary.)
Correct: The Curies discovered radium in the summer of 1898, but they did not publish news of its discovery until December 1898.
Suspect: The Curies
had discovered radium in the summer of 1898, but they did not publish news of its discovery until December 1898.
Every single day between summer of 1898 and December of 1898, the Curies
did not publish the discovery. Every single day, the discovery
was not published.
Suspect: Why would we use more words to say the same thing?
Why would we risk redundancy?
Why would we use verbs whose main purpose is to rescue sentences that do NOT have sequence built into them?
Answer: I have no idea.
We do not need to do so.
I suspect that British English has something to do with your logic.
All aspirants who speak or were trained in British English need to train themselves into the habit of seeing whether simple past will work.
I hope that helps.