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Although various eighteenth and nineteenth-century American

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Re: OG 12 SC 3 [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2010, 23:24
gmatcracker2010 wrote:
Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century
American poets had professed an interest in
Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate
Native American forms in their own works, until almost
1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to

study traditional Native American poetry in native
languages.
(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not
begin seriously to study
(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not
begun seriously studying
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics
to begin seriously to study
(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and
critics began to seriously study
(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and
critics seriously began studying


OA
[Reveal] Spoiler:
e


This is the OA Q. I would like to know:

1. is 'it' correct in the OA when there is no antecedent
2. is not until correct usage in gmat
3 usage of that here which refers to 1900


Between D and E, I will choose E

Seriously should modify began and not studies.....Misplacing seriously to modify study would change the meaning of original sentence...

Regarding your query...
It is correct as any sentence (indepedent clause here begining with it was not until......) can commence with IT provided there is no other it in the sentence that refers to something else.

Ex: It is a pleasant day today. use of IT is perfectly fine here.


Hope this helps...

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Re: Nineteenth-Century American Poets [#permalink] New post 30 Mar 2011, 02:40
In E, why "seriously began" is correct?

I think that the study what has been taken seriously, not the begining.

Thoughts?

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Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century  [#permalink] New post 20 Apr 2011, 07:33
3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century
American poets had professed an interest in
Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate
Native American forms in their own works, until almost
1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to
study traditional Native American poetry in native
languages.
(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not
begin seriously to study
(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not
begun seriously studying
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics
to begin seriously to study
(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and
critics began to seriously study
(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and
critics seriously began studying

I was wondering if the OPTION (D) was " it was not until almost 1900 when scholars and
critics began to seriously study" i.e not almost until was in correct order then could it be right?
Could Infinitive construction replace gerund?
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Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2011, 17:10
3. Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900 scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages.

a) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study
b) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying
c) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study
d) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and critics began to seriously study
e) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying
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Re: 12th OG problem [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2011, 19:42
crick20002002 wrote:

Focus on the first word : Although = representative of a transition, a change of course .

Original Sentence:
Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed X, until almost 1900, Y happened . ==> No evidence of transition.

Correct Sentence:

Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed X, it was not until almost 1900 that Y happened . ==> Voila !!! So thats the the transition.

Crick


Hi Crick,
I know you have some point, I just want to understand it. Can you please elaborate it a bit , what do you mean by transition ?
Although I was tired, I stayed up late last night. This sentence is correct.
What is transition here ?

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Re: 12th OG problem [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2011, 19:58
By transition I meant a word that itself entails some logic.

Example:

Although I was tired, I stayed up late last night.

Meaning:

I was tired last night. Normally a tired person (including the person in the sentence) would take rest and sleep. But/Still/However I stayed up late last night. ==> Thats the transition.
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Re: 12th OG problem [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2011, 20:02
Thank you so much for the explainaton, rphardu. I'm tracy, the adminstrator forbid my account so I have to use another account to reply you.

after your explaination, it seems that this problem is very easy to solve. Let me tell you why A is wrong.

For example, Mr tu not finished his sex with a lady until almost 12 clock. So "Not" word should be supposed to appear.

So in the sentence correction, the author just puts the "not" in the latter sentence which plays the transition.

If like you said, then we just need till instead of until. Do you understand?





rphardu wrote:
crick20002002 wrote:

Focus on the first word : Although = representative of a transition, a change of course .

Original Sentence:
Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed X, until almost 1900, Y happened . ==> No evidence of transition.

Correct Sentence:

Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed X, it was not until almost 1900 that Y happened . ==> Voila !!! So thats the the transition.

Crick


Hi Crick,
I know you have some point, I just want to understand it. Can you please elaborate it a bit , what do you mean by transition ?
Although I was tired, I stayed up late last night. This sentence is correct.
What is transition here ?
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Re: 12th OG problem [#permalink] New post 05 Aug 2011, 10:41
I completely agree with Daagh about the issue of "seriously" in option D, although I am still not sure if "that" is correct in E. But I think "that" in E is not as bad as "seriously" in D.

@rphardu The reason why A is not correct is that In A, modifier ",until almost 1900," is sandwiched between two sentences and it's not clear from the sentence whether it is modifying the sentence before or after it, so A can not be correct.

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Re: Nineteenth-Century American Poets [#permalink] New post 23 Aug 2011, 20:09
what does "it" refer to in D and E?

seems like the word does not have an antecedent and is in poor form.
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Re: Nineteenth-Century American Poets [#permalink] New post 24 Aug 2011, 03:20
'It' refers to act of studying, it is an expletive form, just as - 'There is a chance that i will get 700+'. I dont see necessity of past continuous tense, since nothing is being continued from past. The poets are beginning to study after some gap of time, hence D. Any thoughts?

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Re: Nineteenth-Century American Poets [#permalink] New post 22 Sep 2011, 07:35
folks, past perfect tense needs a reference. if atleast one verb in a sentence has past perfect tense, atlease one other verb must have simple past tense. past perfect works only with a reference.
As the two tense in the non-underlined part are in past perfect, atlease one tense in underlined part must be simple past tense.

A - correct tense, simple past, the comma after first modifier makes it ambiguous. what is it refering to?
B - past perfect, incorrect
C - were .. to begin - awkward, inversion, incorrect
D - correct tense, incorrect placement of almost
E - correct tense, correct choice

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Re: OG 12 SC 3 [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2011, 09:30
IMHO, in all answer choices the problem is in this -begin seriously to study. the word seriously cant be between begin and study

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Re: OG 12 SC 3 [#permalink] New post 25 Sep 2011, 23:07
Between D and E, E does not change the modifiers
I went with E.

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Re: Nineteenth-Century American Poets [#permalink] New post 29 Dec 2011, 16:50
alicegmat wrote:
folks, past perfect tense needs a reference. if atleast one verb in a sentence has past perfect tense, atlease one other verb must have simple past tense. past perfect works only with a reference.
As the two tense in the non-underlined part are in past perfect, atlease one tense in underlined part must be simple past tense.

A - correct tense, simple past, the comma after first modifier makes it ambiguous. what is it refering to?
B - past perfect, incorrect
C - were .. to begin - awkward, inversion, incorrect
D - correct tense, incorrect placement of almost
E - correct tense, correct choice



I have a question on choice A. If the prepositional phrase "until almost 1900" was modifying the previous clause, then there would not be a comma before it. The fact that there is a comma should indicate that it is modifying the phrase after it.

In mgmat it mentions: a prepositional phrase modifying a verb (and possibly its subject) should not have a comma if it appears after the verb. If it is before the verb, then a comma appears.

Also on the pronoun "it" in D and E, is that modifying the time period starting with "when"?
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Re: Although various eighteenth and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 06 Mar 2012, 18:31
The answer is E in this case:

The position of the modifier "until almost 1900" is very confusing and I'm not sure what it is supposed to modify. Therefore, A is incorrect.

When I read answer choice B the first time, I initially thought that 1900 referred to the number of scholars and critics, so this was already confusing to me. The second problem I noticed was that it also uses past perfect tense, which is incorrect.

The use of infinitives is repetitive and confusing "to begin" and seriously "to study". I took out choice C because this seemed very wordy.

The only fault I could find in choice D was the modifier "not almost until 1900" which didn't make any sense to me.

Once I saw answer choice E, I knew that this was a better answer than D. So, I picked E as my final answer.
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Re: 12th OG problem [#permalink] New post 30 Apr 2012, 16:55
sgupta0827 wrote:
I completely agree with Daagh about the issue of "seriously" in option D, although I am still not sure if "that" is correct in E. But I think "that" in E is not as bad as "seriously" in D.

@rphardu The reason why A is not correct is that In A, modifier ",until almost 1900," is sandwiched between two sentences and it's not clear from the sentence whether it is modifying the sentence before or after it, so A can not be correct.


i thought that "when" must be the relative pronoun of choice when modifying time periods. or "in which". Answer choice E contradicts that, but it is an OA.

so, is the takeway that "when vs. that" when used as a relative pronoun modifying a time period is not a hard requirement? So if there are other more egregious mistakes like "almost until 1900", or split infinitive, we disregard it?

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Re: Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 30 Apr 2012, 17:09
After the phrase "Native American forms in their own works," it should be followed by word "it" so only D and E are close. Here until almost 1900 is the correct form. So here the correct answer is E

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Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 06 May 2012, 09:52
sravanth wrote:
Although various eighteenth- and nineteenth-century American poets had professed an interest in Native American poetry and had pretended to imitate Native American forms in their own works, until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study traditional Native American poetry in native languages.

(A) until almost 1900, scholars and critics did not begin seriously to study
(B) until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying
(C) not until almost 1900 were scholars and critics to begin seriously to study
(D) it was not almost until 1900 when scholars and critics began to seriously study
(E) it was not until almost 1900 that scholars and critics seriously began studying


It was not until almost 1900 is the correct construction. hence E.
Also begin and begun are incorrect in this context.

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Re: Although various eighteenth and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 18 Jul 2012, 01:23
Why B is wrong?
past perfect is used to show an action which happen before another action in the past and continue into the that action. B is right.

pls, explain.

I do not see this point in the gmat grammar book by gmatclub. pls, explain, I miss something.
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Re: Although various eighteenth and nineteenth-century American [#permalink] New post 25 Jul 2012, 17:56
thangvietnam wrote:
Why B is wrong?
past perfect is used to show an action which happen before another action in the past and continue into the that action. B is right.

pls, explain.

I do not see this point in the gmat grammar book by gmatclub. pls, explain, I miss something.


Hi,
Actually IMO, if we look into the option B ("until almost 1900 scholars and critics had not begun seriously studying"), the past perfect tense "had not" makes it incorrect. As other folks said that there must be a past reference point in the sentence, inorder to logically/gramatically interrelate the sequence of events using past perfect tense.
Hence, if the sentence was some thing like "until almost 1900 scholars and critics did not begin seriously studying" i would have been grammatically correct.

By the way, past perfect tense is used to describe an action that was completed before another past action, not necessarily continuing into that very action!
Correct me if i'm wrong.

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Re: Although various eighteenth and nineteenth-century American   [#permalink] 25 Jul 2012, 17:56
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