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Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4

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Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 13:41
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

1) makes sense...but I dont understand 2)
Thanks.
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 13:47

6 represented Telefonica team and were not Italians..

n(I) = 4
n(T) = 8

Let X be both Italians and Telefonica..

=> ( 4 – X ) + ( 8 – X ) + X = 10
=> X = 2

so only Telefonica = n(T) – X = 8 – 2 = 6
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 13:50

1. gives all the information needed to find ans. Suffi.
2. Its vague statment.
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 14:23
A. for me

1. already says 2 italians were not from Telefonica so we have 8 people left two of whom were italians and the passage says that 8 people were Telefonica team so logically 8-2=6, so 6 people were not italians but from telefonica team.

2. is just an additional insufficient info.
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 15:16
that's what I thought as well, but according to challenge's solution:

S1 is sufficient. It follows from S1 that 2 Italians who finished in the top ten represented Telefonica team. Thus, 8 - 2 = 6 cyclists who represented Telefonica team were not Italians.

It follows from S2 that 2 Italians who finished in the top ten represented Telefonica team. Therefore, S2 is also sufficient. <-- ????

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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 16:09
that's weird, ask tino in the Gmat club tests forum.
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 17:46
gmat blows wrote:
that's what I thought as well, but according to challenge's solution:

S1 is sufficient. It follows from S1 that 2 Italians who finished in the top ten represented Telefonica team. Thus, 8 - 2 = 6 cyclists who represented Telefonica team were not Italians.

It follows from S2 that 2 Italians who finished in the top ten represented Telefonica team. Therefore, S2 is also sufficient. <-- ????

How do you get the information in the colored boldface when you know only the statement 2 ?
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 18:47
D is the answer. both are sufficient.
Consider the first ten. Think of this as a set problem.
we are given N(I)=4 and N(T)=8
S1 is sufficient and all are clear on it.
From S2, we get N(Either I ot T)=10
substitute in the formula, N(Either I ot T) =N(I)+ N(T)- N( Both I & T)
we get, 10=4+8-N(both)
so N(both) = 2 and we have N(T)-2 = 6 as the answer.
Clear, right
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 19:12
D works for me.

statement 1 is sufficient
statement 2 says that there were NO non-Italians and nonTelefonica reps among top ten finishers.

It means that both situations when

(a) All Italians are Telefonica reps and two cyclists without ties to Telefonica are 'foreigners'
(b) 3 Italians are Telefonica reps and one cyclist without ties to Telefonica is a 'foreigner'

are impossible. This leaves only one possible 'cobmination': 2 non-Telefonica Italians and 8 cyclists representing other nations but cycling under Telefonica brand. Sorry for wordiness.
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Re: Italians and Telefonicans [#permalink]  07 Jan 2008, 22:55
gmat blows wrote:
Among the first ten cyclists who crossed the finish-line, 4 were Italians and 8 represented Telefonica team. How many cyclists who represented Telefonica team and finished in the top ten were not Italians?

1) 2 Italians who finished in the top ten did not represent Telefonica team
2) Each of the top ten finishers either was an Italian or represented Telefonica team or both

1) makes sense...but I dont understand 2)
Thanks.

D.
Stat 1 is strightforward. suff.

Stat 2: Let I = italian and t = telefonica

I I I I
t t t t t t t
This arrangement is not possible since it gives us 8 cyclists while we need 10

The only arrangement possible is:
I I I I
t t t t t t t t
which is the same as stat 1. Suff.
Re: Italians and Telefonicans   [#permalink] 07 Jan 2008, 22:55
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