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Anybody encountered CRs like these recently? BTW: No, they

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 [#permalink] New post 16 Oct 2006, 23:33
I think it's time for the OA!
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 19:01
Another one for D
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 19:46
karlfurt wrote:
I think it's time for the OA!


Compare 1. and 2. to see if you can spot the pattern/technique. Just divulging the OAs (no OE given) won't contribute to understanding the concept here.
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Re: CR Presupposition vs Assumption (Updated) [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 20:30
Last one for E, I suppose.
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Re: CR Presupposition vs Assumption (Updated) [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 20:36
As far as question #2, I'd pick E.
Correct or incorrect, but only from clients. It leaves only E as possible.
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 20:58
1. Instead of blaming an airline accident on pilot error, investigators should find out why the error was made by analyzing airplane design, airline management, and pilot-training programs. For only then can changes be made to ensure that the same type of error does not recur and cause another accident.

Which of the following is a presupposition of the argument above?

(A) Pilot error is not a contributing factor in most airline accidents. - WRONG. Pilot error is a contributing factor but the cause of the pilot error needs to be analyzed.
(B) Airline companies themselves should be the agents who investigate airline accidents. - Nothing stated about who should be the agents. WRONG
(C) Stricter government regulation of airline companies will make air travel significantly safer. - Outside the scope of the argument. WRONG.
(D) Investigators of airline accidents should contribute to the prevention of future accidents. - CORRECT.
(E) Most pilots who make errors in flying will repeat their errors unless they are retrained - Too narrow. Refers only to retraining pilots. WRONG.

2. The president of a consulting firm analyzed the decisions made about marketing by her clients and concluded that the decisions were correct only about half of the time.

The conclusion above depends on the presupposition that

(A) companies can be successful even when about half of the decisions they make about marketing prove to be wrong - who said anything about sucessfull companies?? OUT.
(B) companies hiring her consulting firm make no more incorrect marketing decisions than do companies in general - we do not know anything about companies in general. OUT.
(C) executives consistently making correct marketing decisions rarely enlist the aid of a consulting firm - don't know anything about making correct marketing decision.OUT
(D) marketing decision are just as likely to be correct as they are to be incorrect - this is an inference. OUT
(E) it is possible to classify a marketing decision properly as being either right or wrong-right by POE.
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 [#permalink] New post 17 Oct 2006, 22:02
Yes i do agree 1---->(D)

A presupposition is a necessary assumption whether the argument is negated or accepted.
In our case
lets accept.Yes investigators must check for errors behind the scene.The presupposition is that investigators should contribute to prevention of future accidents.

Lets negate.'No'- investigators must not check for errors behind the scene(they should not look beyond pilot errors).
still the investigators are contributing to the prevention of the accidents.
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 00:44
GMATT73 wrote:
karlfurt wrote:
I think it's time for the OA!


Compare 1. and 2. to see if you can spot the pattern/technique. Just divulging the OAs (no OE given) won't contribute to understanding the concept here.


For the 2nd, I go for E and assume that presupposition=assumption.
Sorry, I couldn't see any common pattern between both RC, only that both questions are similar.

(A) companies can be successful even when about half of the decisions they make about marketing prove to be wrong
out - successful out of scope
(B) companies hiring her consulting firm make no more incorrect marketing decisions than do companies in general
out- out of scope
(C) executives consistently making correct marketing decisions rarely enlist the aid of a consulting firm
out - no support for such presupposition
(D) marketing decision are just as likely to be correct as they are to be incorrect
out -???
(E) it is possible to classify a marketing decision properly as being either right or wrong
IN - the president says that 1/2 of the decisions are correct. Thus, the other 1/2 are wrong. If it were not possible to classify the decision it those categories, the president couldn't make his conclusion.
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 00:45
D & E.

1) the author asks the investigators to investigate other things because he thinks they have the responsibility. Hence D.

2). the conclusion is drawn because the author thinks the president makes the right decisions about whether the marketing decisions from the client are wrong or right.
Hence E.
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 05:31
ak_idc wrote:
I think first we should agree upon the definitions of presupposition and assumption or atleast on how they are different.

Matt, can you please throw some light on that aspect?


From Cambridge:

presuppose (verb) ---> to think that something is true in advance without having any proof: [+ that]

Ex. You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

presupposition (noun)

Your actions are based on some false presuppositions (= things that you think without knowing the truth).

vs.

assumption (noun)

something that you accept as true without question or proof:

People tend to make assumptions about you when you have a disability.
These calculations are based on the assumption that prices will continue to rise.

Therefore, in (1) we can't automatically assume that pilot error is not a contributing factor to plane crashes without knowing the complete facts (analyzing the "black box" etc).

In (2), using the same logic as (1), are we to presuppose that the conclusions made by the president of the consulting firm may/may not be correct? :?:
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 06:15
So OA are A and D? :shock:

I've to admit that I have difficulties to see the difference between presupposition and assumption!

presupposition= things that you think without knowing the truth
assumption = something that y ou accept as true without question or proof
:???
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 06:22
karlfurt wrote:
So OA are A and D? :shock:

I've to admit that I have difficulties to see the difference between presupposition and assumption!

presupposition= things that you think without knowing the truth
assumption = something that y ou accept as true without question or proof
:???


:no

Reread my logic Karl. Yes, this is an unusually difficult concept for me to pound in as well :?
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 07:21
:dunnow

for the 1st, D might be the answer but I'll stay with E.

For the 2nd, however we consider the CR with assumption or presupposition, E is the only one making sense!
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Re: CR Presupposition vs Assumption: One in the same? [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 08:34
presuppose (verb) ---> to think that something is true in advance without having any proof: [+ that]

Ex. You're presupposing that he'll have told her - but he may not have.

presupposition (noun)

Your actions are based on some false presuppositions (= things that you think without knowing the truth).

1. Instead of blaming an airline accident on pilot error, investigators should find out why the error was made by analyzing airplane design, airline management, and pilot-training programs. For only then can changes be made to ensure that the same type of error does not recur and cause another accident.

Which of the following is a presupposition of the argument above?

(A) Pilot error is not a contributing factor in most airline accidents.
(B) Airline companies themselves should be the agents who investigate airline accidents.
(C) Stricter government regulation of airline companies will make air travel significantly safer.
(D) Investigators of airline accidents should contribute to the prevention of future accidents.

Presupposition because we are saying "Investigators should contribute to the prevention of future accidents." We are not sure, whether author of the argument himself is sure about that. A government airline run very bureaucratically might not allow investigators to poke their nose into analyzing airplane design, airline management, and pilot-training programs.

(E) Most pilots who make errors in flying will repeat their errors unless they are retrained

2. The president of a consulting firm analyzed the decisions made about marketing by her clients and concluded that the decisions were correct only about half of the time.

The conclusion above depends on the presupposition that

(A) companies can be successful even when about half of the decisions they make about marketing prove to be wrong
(B) companies hiring her consulting firm make no more incorrect marketing decisions than do companies in general
(C) executives consistently making correct marketing decisions rarely enlist the aid of a consulting firm
(D) marketing decision are just as likely to be correct as they are to be incorrect
(E) it is possible to classify a marketing decision properly as being either right or wrong

We are not sure whether president is right in presupposing. There is no evidence for his belief. But he is coming to a conclusion based on this presupposition.


3. When a company refuses to allow other companies to produce patented technology, the consumer invariably loses. The company that holds the patent can charge exorbitant prices because there is no direct competition. When the patents expire, other companies are free to manufacture the technology and prices fall. Companies should therefore allow other manufacturers to license patented technology.

The argument above presupposes which of the following?

A.Companies cannot find legal ways to produce technology similar to patented technology.
B.Companies have an obligation to act in the best interest of the consumer.

Author is presupposing without any data or evidence. Even hardcore capitalists would agree companies are rarely bothered about best interests of the consumer. They are bothered about preserving their competitive advantage, and making money. Not licensing provides them both these benefits

C.Too many patents are granted to companies that are unwilling to share them.
D.The consumer can tell the difference between patented technology and inferior imitations.
E.Consumers care more about price than about quality.

:wink:
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Last edited by ak_idc on 20 Oct 2006, 06:34, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: CR Presupposition vs Assumption: One in the same? [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 09:54
GMATT73 wrote:
Anybody encountered CRs like these recently? BTW: No, they are not from a (known) LSAT source. The purpose of this post is to clarify the difference between a presupposition and an assumption. The OAs are available, just no OEs..

1. Instead of blaming an airline accident on pilot error, investigators should find out why the error was made by analyzing airplane design, airline management, and pilot-training programs. For only then can changes be made to ensure that the same type of error does not recur and cause another accident.

Which of the following is a presupposition of the argument above?

(A) Pilot error is not a contributing factor in most airline accidents.
(B) Airline companies themselves should be the agents who investigate airline accidents.
(C) Stricter government regulation of airline companies will make air travel significantly safer.
(D) Investigators of airline accidents should contribute to the prevention of future accidents.
(E) Most pilots who make errors in flying will repeat their errors unless they are retrained

From the same source... for vertical reference.

2. The president of a consulting firm analyzed the decisions made about marketing by her clients and concluded that the decisions were correct only about half of the time.

The conclusion above depends on the presupposition that

(A) companies can be successful even when about half of the decisions they make about marketing prove to be wrong
(B) companies hiring her consulting firm make no more incorrect marketing decisions than do companies in general
(C) executives consistently making correct marketing decisions rarely enlist the aid of a consulting firm
(D) marketing decision are just as likely to be correct as they are to be incorrect
(E) it is possible to classify a marketing decision properly as being either right or wrong

And yet another from MGMAT.

3. When a company refuses to allow other companies to produce patented technology, the consumer invariably loses. The company that holds the patent can charge exorbitant prices because there is no direct competition. When the patents expire, other companies are free to manufacture the technology and prices fall. Companies should therefore allow other manufacturers to license patented technology.

The argument above presupposes which of the following?

A.Companies cannot find legal ways to produce technology similar to patented technology.
B.Companies have an obligation to act in the best interest of the consumer.
C.Too many patents are granted to companies that are unwilling to share them.
D.The consumer can tell the difference between patented technology and inferior imitations.
E.Consumers care more about price than about quality.

Just seems like another way to window dress an assumption question, but Cambridge disagrees...


Q1. I believe the answer is D. Answer A has the classic trip-up with the word "most". The passage just doesn't say anything about how frequently pilot error causes accidents. I believe E is closer, but misses the mark as well. The problem is that the answer focuses only on pilot error, but the passage argues that investigators should find out why the error was made by "analyzing airplane design, airline management, and pilot-training programs." In other words, the passage presupposes that design, management and training can each cause errors, but answer E ignors all factors but training. B & C have no relation to the passage. D seems correct because I think the job of airline investigators is to find out the cause of an accident, so in order for the passage to properly state "investigators should find out why the error was made", you must presuppose that it is part of their job to also "to ensure that the same type of error does not recur and cause another accident".

Q2. I came up with E for the answer. This was purely through a process of elimination. A-D just appear to have to basis in the passage. E focuses on just one a small point in the passage, but you do in fact have to presuppose that it is possible to classify a marketing decision as right or wrong to be able to "conclude" whether decisions were correct.

Q3. I believe the answer is B for this one. The key to this passage lies in the final sentence - that is where the argumet is made. The passage argues "companies should therefore allow other manufacturers to license patented technology." The rest of the passage is just fluff. Just read that passage and ask yourself "why" or ask yourself "how can they make that argument" and it should be clear why B is the answer.
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 [#permalink] New post 18 Oct 2006, 19:05
Got it! Hardwired the presupposition concept at last. Thanks for your detailed explanations AK and Pelihu. :done
  [#permalink] 18 Oct 2006, 19:05
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