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Anyone ever feel like they are looked at as crazy at work?

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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 06:40
Mark4124 wrote:
It has nothing to do with that whatsoever Lich, it has everything to do with the fact that no one in my position ever goes to such schools as they do not have the prior education necessary to be competitive.


Again, I don't mean to sound confrontational, but I think your attitude kind of sucks. What do you mean by "they do not have the prior education necessary to be competitive"? The only prior education you need to be competitive for b-school (even a top one) is a college degree from an accredited institution. Unless your coworkers are a bunch of college dropouts, I think most of them would satisfy this criteria. Of course, there is the issue of GPA (but then again how would you know your coworkers GPA? are you just assuming they have poor GPA's?). But even a poor/non-stellar GPA can be overcome by having a stellar GMAT score. And trust me, anybody who devotes enough time and effort can score over 700. It's just a matter of how badly you want it.
Honestly, you have been showing a certain level of condescention toward your coworkers throughout this entire thread, and it doesn't make you look good.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 06:42
Yes... You have to understand that for alot of the people I work with a school like BU or BC would be an incredible dream school. Whereas for some of us here that would be a really strong safety school. That doesn't mean I think I am better than them or they think I suck because they look at schools like those I am applying to as impossiblities. That is not the case at all. It is just a different worldview. Last year when I applied to schools like Vanderbilt for MSF they were ready to greet me with open arms because alot of those programs are filled with students with less work experience. That sort of possiblity would also be far beyond the reach of most of the people I work with. I am not wrong or crazy... I just have a few pieces that others with whom I work do not... and as a result of their strategic orientation they can not understand mine.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 06:43
Again, I don't mean to sound confrontational, but I think your attitude kind of sucks. Ok buddy!
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 06:47
If you think a 3.5 GPA undergrad from Harvard = a 3.5 undergrad GPA from Bunker Hill Community College you'd be wrong.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 07:12
Mark4124 wrote:
If you think a 3.5 GPA undergrad from Harvard = a 3.5 undergrad GPA from Bunker Hill Community College you'd be wrong.


Excuse me, did you go to Harvard? Of course, I know that undergrad rep matters, and yes 3.5 from Harvard means more than a 3.5 from BHCC, but even so a 3.5 is a respectable GPA. As long as BHCC is an acrredited institution that kind of education background will not bar someone from getting into a top b-school. It's what you do with your education that matters more, so I'm not going to be terrible impressed with a Harvard grad who works as a sales clerk at Macy's. And again, if you think your coworker's educational background is so "beneath you", doesn't that say more about you and how you have failed to progress, despite your education? Touche, my friend, touche.

In case you haven't noticed I think looking down on others is a terrible way to try and build confidence...
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 07:22
I don't look down on anyone. I just understand what it takes to get where you need to be. I majored in the wrong area so I am not where I should be. If anything my co-workers have it on me because they are in the right place given there backgrounds whereas I am not given mine.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 07:35
Lich wrote:
Mark4124 wrote:
It has nothing to do with that whatsoever Lich, it has everything to do with the fact that no one in my position ever goes to such schools as they do not have the prior education necessary to be competitive.


Quote:
The only prior education you need to be competitive for b-school (even a top one) is a college degree from an accredited institution.


Aaah an interesting argument! I want in!

I'd agree and disagree. I sincerely doubt that a 24 year old individual with a degree from say Cornell, Harvard, Tufts, Yale, etc would be viewed in the same light as someone who, say, completed a degree at large program on a part time basis from an "accredited institution". While this meets the "requirement", it's not the same thing.

It's like the GMAT - sure the requirement is that you take the GMAT and nothing more, but meerly taking the GMAT is not enough - scoring well on it is. While, yes, a degree is the only requirement, I do think that where that degree comes from will bear weight on it's overall value and on your application.

That being said, I would agree that education is only one factor and that alone would not keep these individuals from being competitive. I think its what tends to come with these other degrees that keeps people out of being particularly competitive - in my experience, if you have a part time undergraduate degree or an AA followed by a BA, your work experience suffers accordingly. It's not that you are any less worthy, its just that you lost out on some important years in which those with the good fortune of completing a normal four year program may have had.

The people I know who have done part time BA degrees from no name universities, accredited or not, are usually much older than myself, and usually worked pretty meaningless jobs during their studies - which in some cases last several years. There are of course, exceptions to this - but like I said, I think its the "whole package" that tends to be come from these kinds of situations.

For instance, I know a guy at work... A 28 year old who spent 18 to 20 working at a carwash before enrolling in a part time program which he finished at 26, during which time he worked as an administrative assistant. He's now in a junior role, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of his work experience has been menial and weak. Yes, he has an undergrad degree from an accredited institution, but ...

This person cannot, in my unscientific view, be as competitive as the person who graduated at 20, and has spent the last eight years developing themselves and being promoted.

It begs an interesting question really - does one's socio economic status dictate their odds of success at an MBA, and if so, how far back was this path laid? Again, the 28 year old BA from a part time at large institution with weakened job experience, vs the 28 year old with 8 years of experience in a field and a 4 year degree from an expensive institution? A fair playing field? Probably not.

But lets talk of something else - and a more interesting twist I think.

Is the issue really where you got your degree or is it what that degree did for you?

I think it's fair to assume that someone from a top 10 or an ivy league institution is far more likely to have great opportunities coming out of university, whereas those from a no-name institution are less likely to land a meaningful job. Not impossible of course, but just more difficult. Goldman Sachs, Bain, McKinsey, BSG, Arthur Anderson, Motorola, BMW, whatever - you'll see these firms and others like them represented more heavily at the top schools than at other ones. So, lacking these opportunities, statisically you are more likely to work for a less famous company, which may hurt your ability to move to one of the "big players".

And this makes sense right - I mean, otherwise, why go get your MBA from a top 15? There's a difference in the opportunities coming out of those schools than coming out of the Hawiaan School of Underwater Basket Weaving.

There's a question of pure geography too. Graduating from MIT and being in the boston area gives you access not only to the national recruiting but also to a strong local base. Graduating from some school built on marshland in the backcountry of Alabama, would give you likely, far less local opportunities. I really think this can make a huge difference - I know one girl with a BA in Economics, extremely bright, but can't find a decent job - the opportunities just don't exist where she lives. It's a small town, there's little to no recruiting, and graduates mostly end up in the food service industry. The issue isn't whether her degree is from Yale or not, the issue is that her degree never gave her the opportunities one from Yale might have.

And I think this is really what it comes down to - those who graduate from a top institution have access to better resources, recruiting and job prospects, all of which help them take a step in the right direction to an MBA, whereas those that graduate from a weaker institution have likely far reduced opportunities, which likely hurt their odss from the get-go. Exceptions, no doubt, exist.

So to recap:

1) I've made little sense
2) My jaw kind of hurts but I dont know why and it's irritating me
3) School choice probably does matter.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 07:45
I would also add in reference to my current position and what it says about me...

I have a degree in liberal arts... I am in the position that I am because I want to be in the financial industry. Unfortunately not majoring in quant econ I have to take a position which is not exactly the one I would choose given an unlimited universe of positions to choose from. When you are a career changer sometimes you have to take the position thats availible rather than necessarily the one that you would ideally desire.
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Nov 2006, 07:56
Mark4124 wrote:
I would also add in reference to my current position and what it says about me...

I have a degree in liberal arts... I am in the position that I am because I want to be in the financial industry. Unfortunately not majoring in quant econ I have to take a position which is not exactly the one I would choose given an unlimited universe of positions to choose from. When you are a career changer sometimes you have to take the position thats availible rather than necessarily the one that you would ideally desire.


I did the same thing two years ago - I switched areas and took a $15,000 paycut to do it. I should have come in higher than I did, but it was where I wanted to be and what I wanted to do, so I had to do it.
  [#permalink] 27 Nov 2006, 07:56
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