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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 08 Jun 2010, 11:31
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Ooookay gang. Back to our favorite topic, REAL ESTATE. As a new crop of GMATClub folks begins to sign into this year, a number of questions have come up--that we address every year. No need to reinvent the wheel...

So rather than jump into other forums (or refer folks to older threads of our own) lets dig into it here.

The three main questions that real estate applicants seem to have are delineated (and answered) below.

1) Should I get an MSRE or an MBA?
Here, our answer is clear as can be. And remember, having worked at Trammell Crow and ING Real Estate, I have hired many employees from both backgrounds. Here is how we looked at it, when hiring at Trammell Crow Residential (one of the leading developers in the world.) We preferred MBAs. Period. The reason is that real estate is actually quite simple--mostly common sense, and all "academic" aspects (how to calculate an IRR, what a mez loan is) can be learned easily on the spot. The harder skills--leadership, communication, perspective, contacts--THESE are the things that we want our employees to know. This is why we preferred MBAs to MSREs. They are better rounded, And as a leader (all developers are leaders) that is CRITICAL. Get an MBA. Perhaps a joint degree--but not simply an MSRE.

2) I dont have any real experience--how do I break in?
This is the trickiest of the bunch. All bschool apps (whether in real estate or not) that spell out career changes are challenging. Our goal is to somehow link the real estate development piece with other aspects of your background. Leadership, for example. We need to find these links--without a connection between your past and your future, whether in real estate or elsewhere, you will be sunk.

3) What school? Someone just mentioned "Wisconsin," but I hadnt even considered it...
Here is where so many applicants go wrong! And since there are so many "peer advisors" doling out advice, it is frustrating to see good people receive bad advice! But here is what you SHOULD NOT do: apply only to self-proclaimed top real estate programs. "Gosh, Wisconsin is doing lots of marketing this year, so I guess they have a great real estate program. I got a 750 on my GMAT, and Im gonna apply to Wisconsin." Oh no! DO NOT apply to programs simply because there is a great real estate program there! Or worse yet, because someone on a forum decided to plug a certain program as "one of the best." At Trammell Crow Residential, we recruited at the best schools. Period. Harvard, Stanford, Kellogg--and the reason was that we alllll know in the industry that MSRE programs dont spit out well-rounded businessmen and women. With a 750, and some great real estate background, apply to the best business schools in the world. Not only will you get in, but you will have a MUCH easier time getting a job when you graduate, than you would coming out of "Wisconsin," of all places.

Hope this makes sense gang. If you are interested in real estate and need some professional guidance, feel free to drop me a line. We feel very strongly about it...

Jon Frank
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2010, 22:28
Jon,

What about the numerous layoffs in the Real Estate industry?

One of my deaaaar friends for example, a former employee of Trammel Crow Residentials, was LAID OFF few years ago. The irony of fate is that he was not laid off because of his leadersheep skills but for something else other than skill...!!

So the question is: '' how can one deal with this cyclical industry, especially when layoffs can happen even in the ''best'' of the ''best'' of families.
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Last edited by hihihi on 12 Jun 2010, 10:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 09:41
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Hihihi,

Thanks for the thoughtful question. And happy to address it here.

How do we deal with layoffs--in the RE biz and anywhere else for that matter? Well it is never easy--and I have a number of friends who have also been laid off. But here are three ways to get over that hump--and you can do ALL these things early on, before things start to go south at the company:

1) Keep your feelers out--even when times are good. Never get too comfortable at a job--if you ever reach a point where you would have no idea where to go, or what to do should you be laid off, youve become too comfortable. Always be talking to headhunters, planning your own deals, reaching out to others--that way, you will NEVER be taken by surprise.

2) Negotiate a good job offer. Worst case, you get laid off. Those are the breaks, whether in RE or anywhere else. But if they DO lay you off...whats in it for you? Too often, people breeeeze through their offer letters, and sign juuust about anything. We cant afford this mistake, especially in this economy. DONT agree to giving 3 months notice, or more. ALWAYS force them to keep you, short of gross negligence etc. PUSH for 6 months severance. Think about medical insurance. What about your bonus? FORCE them to give you the equivalent of last years bonus, worst case. If they do have to let you go, make sure the terms of the deal are agreed to--when times are good.

3) Go to the best B-school you can get into. From one of the best schools in the world, you can always pick up the phone and get in the door someplace. From a lesser school, it will be that much harder. This is also a great reason to get an MBA--it will be that much easier to get a job when the time comes. More people, bigger network, more tricks up your sleeve...you get the idea.

Anyway, hope this helps. Thanks again for the thoughtful note, and keep in touch!

Jon Frank
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 10:30
I am pleasantly surprised by this thoughtful response because it is very different in tone and content from your last post (REAL ESTATE, favorite topic).

Thanks.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 12:25
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Hihihi,

Thanks for another nice note my friend--we are pleased that you are pleased. : )

Keep the tough questions coming! These are the ones that your fellow applicants and our friends will benefit the most from reading.

And as always, let us know what more we can do to help. We'd love to do so.

Best of luck!

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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 10 Jun 2010, 12:33
INice book I wanna share:

Fooled by Randomness: The Hidden Role of Chance in Life and in the Markets

by Nassim Nicholas Taleb

:wink:
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 11 Jun 2010, 06:33
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Love it dude. I read the Black Swan, and was a HUGE fan. I'll be sure to check this book out as well--the next free chance I get! Now that Stanford essays are released, we've never been busier. I guess the season starts earlier each year?

: )

Good luck to you my friend, and keep in touch!

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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 11 Jun 2010, 06:55
:)
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Last edited by hihihi on 12 Jun 2010, 09:44, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 12 Jun 2010, 06:03
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hihihi,

You know man I juuuust thought of one thing also that I wanted to share. Let me recommend a book to you as well, my friend. I recently finished it, and was very pleased that I had. It is actually quite short (you can breeze through it in a couple hours max) and it has truly affected me and my interactions with others.

It is called the Go Giver--and it is VERY interesting indeed. All about kindness, helping people--it makes a bold hypothesis (and I think backs it up cleverly) about the way to be the most successful in the business world. Even in aspects of life unrelated to business (but it is a "business" book.)

And now, we have both made book recommendations. I will do my best to ready yours in the next month or so.

Best of luck, and keep in touch!

Jon Frank
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 16 Jun 2010, 12:46
Jon,

Thanks for the kind words.It is nice to see that We are all Learning from One another, and it is that awareness that brings humility in us; a key character trait that differentiates Great Leaders from the rest.

We make an impact in every one of our interactions with others; and having a “positive” interaction adds to the overall energy of the team, making us better persons.

I am glad our interactions have been mutually enriching.

Best wishes to you on your onward travails, and stay in touch,

Hihih
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Last edited by hihihi on 21 Jun 2010, 01:53, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 13:41
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Now, lets turn our heads in a slightly different direction: GETTING MONEY. You all know our personal opinion, that you simply need to go to the best school you get into. Now, what happens though if you ARE going to that school, but you want to get some money!

Here is our guidance, folks. Feel free to reach out and explain your case--but be careful. What we DO NOT want to do, is simply say "Well Gosh, THAT program is giving me $50K--how much can you give me?" This will turn the school off--this is not the way to go about the process.

Instead, we need to make the case for a merit-based scholarship. Sure, allude to the fact that other schools may be offering money--but THAT isnt the point of the letter. The point of the letter is two-fold: first of all, to let them know that THEY are you first choice! "Please, make it possible for me to attend your school. It is my first choice by far." And secondly, reiterate the strongest facets of YOUR CASE. "I am worth this scholarship. Remember, I am XXX YYYY and ZZZ. Holy crap, do you want ME to go to your school. CONSIDER me for a merit based scholarship."

We arent playing schools off one another--we are reiterating OUR case...for OURSELVES. Big difference.

Hope this helps, my friends.

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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 20:13
precisionessay wrote:
It is called the Go Giver--and it is VERY interesting indeed. All about kindness, helping people--it makes a bold hypothesis (and I think backs it up cleverly) about the way to be the most successful in the business world. Even in aspects of life unrelated to business (but it is a "business" book.)

I also recommend Go Giver.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 21:06
Avernusaur wrote:
precisionessay wrote:
It is called the Go Giver--and it is VERY interesting indeed. All about kindness, helping people--it makes a bold hypothesis (and I think backs it up cleverly) about the way to be the most successful in the business world. Even in aspects of life unrelated to business (but it is a "business" book.)

I also recommend Go Giver.


Sounds similar to "Delivering Happiness"
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2010, 06:39
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Yeah man, similar to Delivering Happiness in a few ways. The link, for example, between happiness and success.

But the books are very different--the Go Giver is more of a fairy tale. It reads more like a myth than like an actual CEO, describing his theories on how to succeed in business. The Go Giver is short, unusual, and more like a zen tale. Delivering happiness is a GREAT book (and I am only half-way through the thing), but just a bit more standard in its format (CEO describing his perspective).

Id definitely recommend both--but am partial to the Go Giver. : )

And by the way, when it comes to MBA-related books, the one that we always recommend is Montauk's book. While some of his ideas are a bit outdated (hes been at it in the biz for a veeeeery long time) the book remains the gold standard. Period. I also loved reading Year One right before I attended HBS--but that is likely a bit outdated now as well. Sigh--I guess we are getting a bit older...

Good luck to everyone as always, and feel free to reach out to me at jon@precisionessay.com anytime.

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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 02:56
Hey Praetorian ,

Just had a look at "Delivering Happiness", very nice book indeed.

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 02 Jul 2010, 12:16
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Hey gang.

One thing that many of our clients seem to be missing this year, is how scared the schools are. Not of the boogeyman, or that youre gonna drop out. Theyre afraid that after you graduate, you WONT GET A JOB. The oooold J-O-B. It's an issue.

So. What do we do about this? We sooooothe them in our apps. We show them that our career vision is easy. It is clear. If we dont have ANY background in consulting, then we dont hinge our entire application on working at McKinsey after graduation. Why? Because that job is very, very hard to get. Same with "Private Equity."

I can hear the adcom in the back of my mind's eye, "Whats that? You wanna get into Private Equity? Well so does everyone else...and you have no experience, and there are no jobs. You scare me..."

So bear this in mind, my friends. Schools NEED to know that youre gonna get a job after you graduate. Lay out specifics to prove that youve thought it through to the last detail. If you need to do Private Equity, for example, perhaps lay out a back up plan. Admit that you KNOW how hard it will be to get the job. Explain how you WILL get it.

The bschools are scared that youll be unemployed. That makes them look bad. So...prove them wrong.

And have a great weekend...
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 05 Jul 2010, 06:37
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On this July 4th Weekend my friends, I thought it might make sense to talk a bit about independence. After all, it is of course Independence Day.

Many folks see MBAs as a chance to achieve independence. So for example, there is this notion that by getting an MBA, we will create some kind of instant freedom for ourselves.

Sadly, nothing could be further from the truth. And just to rain on someone's parade, I think perhaps we can make a list of Top Three Reasons Why MBAs Dont Create Freedom for Recent Graduates:

1. Loans. When you graduate from school, you will owe money. Perhaps $100,000--and perhaps even twice that. This will amount to $600 in monthly payments at least. The fantasy of launching a start-up and living the dream starts to melt away somewhat, when you factor in your loan payments...
2. Timing. We all go to bschool hoping to find ourselves. "Man, if I just sit and talk with lots of interesting people, who knows what ideas I'll come up with!" And of course, to some extent, that is true. But food for thought gang: recruiting for summer internships begins on campus in October. If you want a job during the summer, you will need to do your soul searching...preeeetty quickly. Time is of the essence the second you get to school.
3. Salaries. For those of us looking to shift careers, here is a factoid to consider: you will make the most money doing what youre most qualified to do. I went to bschool interested in all sorts of fields other than real estate. But when the RE offers started in (and they were GOOD offers) the world started to look a bit different. It is hard to get away from the money. And the money will find you, if you are qualified in your field.

Hope this helps gang--independence is a great thing. But MBA programs dont provide as much as you may like to think...

Jon Frank
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 06 Jul 2010, 09:55
Precision,

Was hoping you wouldn't mind reviewing my application.

I plan on applying this fall for the JD/MBA program at Columbia. I am already in the Law School and start in August. I just want to start thinking about recommenders & what else I should do to strengthen my application (and perhaps what to leave off). Also, thinking that I might have to retake the GMAT,

Overview:
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Nationality: Cuban-American
Undergraduate: {Top Liberal Arts School} c/o 2008, Economics and Spanish Double Major
GPA: 3.56
GMAT: 680 (46Quant/ 37Verbal), 5.5 AWA

Work Experience:
Comag Marketing Group subsidiary of Hearst Publishing - Work on the client side of newsstand circulation as an associate account manager primarily on the Reader's Digest (and associated titles) account. Primary responsibilities include distribution and sales analysis along with managing the newsstand print orders and dealling with adhoc requests from the publisher/client. I do not have anyone directly under me however, I coordinate these processes with a large field force (wholesale and retail reps).

Other Experiences/Activites (all while in undergrad):
•Coordinator for Second Mile Program, a college mentoring program for disadvantaged, inner-city children. Responsible for mentoring children, recruiting student mentors, organizing activities and transportation.
• Member of Varsity Football Team, 2004 and 2007 Centennial Conference Champions. Dedicated 25 – 30 hrs/week in-season to practices, tape review, meetings and weight training. Dedicated 8-15 hrs/week during off-season to weight training/conditioning and spring practices.
• Volunteer in tax return preparation program for low-income taxpayers (VITA/TCE certified).
• Member of La Comunidad Latina (campus organization for Hispanic students)
•One of the founding members of The Health and Fitness Club at my school.

School List: Basically I am only considering columbia as I will already be enrolled at the law school.

So I know that my GMAT is low. Assuming I can get the quantitative score back to 46 on a retake I know I can significantly improve the verbal score (received a 174 on LSAT). However, I would appreciate if you could give me an idea of competitive my app looks right now and/or basically what I would need to get on the GMAT to have a good chance at admission. I really want the JD/MBA as I really want to study and eventually work in SecuritesRegulation/Financial Reform. Think Big Law and eventually maybe transferring to the SEC/Treasury Department, and maybe eventually in house counsel at a large corporation. But in the short term I know what I want to study and feel that a better understanding of complex financial transactions and concepts would be extremely helpful in the future. I will have 2 years and 3 months of work experience by the time I start law school and send in my b school application.

I really appreciate any feedback and thanks in advance.
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 07 Jul 2010, 14:12
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Hey man, happy to offer up some thoughts. Those JD/MBA programs are no joke dude, and are VERY competitive as you know. Happily, you have some great background. Let me share some thoughts.

I like the work experience--is there any leadership there? I know that you dont have anyone below you, but is there SOME leadership experience to write about? That is what we're going for--even if you dont have a group of direct reports. We need some kind of leadership to speak of. I would look for THOSE types of stories to tell. And it sounds like you have some...

I love the extra-curricular work at college. Varsity football is TIGHT dude--and you should write about it for sure. I also love the volunteer work. Have you done any extra-currics since graduating? Ideally you will have something to write about there. The easiest thing to do would be to tap back into something that you had done during college--that way, it will look like youve been doing it the whole time. And technically, you have been...

With a 174 on the LSAT dude, you need to retake the GMAT. With a 700+, you should be in great shape. With a 730 on the test for example, and with some TIGHT essays, you should be golden. I like what I see (and we dont make such statements lightly). Between the academics, the international background, the Columbia law--you have a real shot. Juice up the GMAT just a hair, and you're in business dude.

Hope this helps.

Jon Frank
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Re: Ask Precision Essay [#permalink] New post 07 Jul 2010, 15:38
Hey Jon,

Thanks a ton. Really appreciate the insight.
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