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Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)

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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 15:09
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Very interesting discussion indeed. I saw a similar discussion in Sentence Correction forum of BTG as well. Check out the post with the title "Changes in Sentence Correction. An Important read!". I cannot post the url since I have fewer than 5 posts on GMATClub (disadvantages of being a silent spectator)..

My 2 cents - meaning has always been an integral part of SC. Its just we get lost in the myriad of rules and lose sight of this big picture...So the only "new" information here is the Great news that "idioms" will no longer be tested...I am really elated today...

Will definitely have a beer or two just to celebrate this...(I know I will see idioms in my test since idioms will not be phased out right away) but still i will celebrate...!

PS: (Will post the link once I have 5 posts)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 15:12
Expert's post
Mohater attended the conference in New York this week and he'll be posting a complete report once he has recovered from a busy travel schedule.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 15:15
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My opinion is that changes are good but they are also bad:

Good:
- International speakers don't have to worry about the vocab/idioms as much and not be discriminated as the result

Bad:
- Any change creates uncertainty/confusion/misinformation/speculation and that's the case here as well

Overall I would say it will be helpful but will depend on how changes are implemented and how gradually/abrupt it will be done. I think verbal is already gray enough area and adding some new/unknown type of questions (multiple correct answer choices) may muddy the waters but we'll see.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 18:49
they could have waited for this change till 2012, when the Quant sec also wil be changed...

GMAT writers with D day in this month and next month...wats ur modulas operandi now ?? :)
Option 1 . Nevermind the change, jus go and face the exam with a brave heart
Option 2 . Post-pone the D day, till we get some inputs and examples on the changes.

(lil pun, both the options are gramatically correct, but only one is the correct answer)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 00:15
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bb wrote:
My opinion is that changes are good but they are also bad:

Good:
- International speakers don't have to worry about the vocab/idioms as much and not be discriminated as the result
[highlight]if i had a choice over idioms and meaning issue i would have chosen idioms.......[/highlight] 8-)
Bad:
- Any change creates uncertainty/confusion/misinformation/speculation and that's the case here as well

Overall I would say it will be helpful but will depend on how changes are implemented and how gradually/abrupt it will be done. I think verbal is already gray enough area and adding some new/unknown type of questions (multiple correct answer choices) may muddy the waters but we'll see.


Thanks for your feedback BB at least recent test takers are victims to this (including me) :x
and we need to write again with no specific material in hand
nonetheless
we will wait for mohter's post :) :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 02:26
Warlock,

Though I d not go with your opinion to an minor extent, I should say its because of your post , we all were made aware of the fact ! Kudos for spreading the first preview and enlightening us :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 02:46
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Warlock,

Though I d not go with your opinion to an minor extent, I should say its because of your post , we all were made aware of the fact ! Kudos for spreading the first preview and enlightening us :)


your welcome
my post might be scary (the way it is written)
but for those who appeared in the meantime it should sound exactly what they must be feeling right after the test
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 07:31
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Guys pls do not panic. When we are playing the game we have to follow the rules. If we continue on beating the bush, the result will be zero.
Lets wait for the report of Mohater and Mgmat. The report of Mgmat is expected to be released on Monday.

I gave my Gmat last year and I still remember there were at least 2 questions where I had to chose between the 2 options that involved the IDIOMS, which I had never heard. So I really welcome the omission of Idioms.
Idioms always help the Native speakers, so the omission is definitely the welcome move for the Non natives.
check out the reply of recent Gmat taker from Pakistan.
from-530-to-710-my-debrief-120774.html#p976448

Moreover, the meaning issue if over rated in this post, though I highly appreciate his efforts to share the news and I sincerely wish him good luck for the next exam. I had score of 51 in all my practice tests( except 1 gmat) including the monster tests of Mgmat, still I got 49 in the real exam. So you never know what will happen. It is all god's grace.

I m coming back to the meaning issue. Half of the things that we have learnt about SC includes the meaning issue, even though we always consider it to be grammatical.
The first rule that every gmat taker learns is the difference between the use of that/which. This difference is not grammatical issue, it is an meaning issue.
Major portion of modifier/pronoun issue touches the meaning issue.

But the originator the post does have one important concern - how the prep companies are going to combat these changes and how soon.

I wish you all good. Let's meet in the battle field of GMAT. :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 08:40
gurpreetsingh wrote:
I had score of 51 in all my practice tests( except 1 gmat) including the monster tests of Mgmat, still I got 49 in the real exam. So you never know what will happen. It is all god's grace.


you got 49 in the verbal?????????????????? as we are talking about SC here
gurpreetsingh wrote:

Moreover, the meaning issue if over rated in this post,

[highlight]may be gurpreeet
but if you ask me its a major change and meaning issue will not be so easy as its a game changer now[/highlight]


I m coming back to the meaning issue. Half of the things that we have learnt about SC includes the meaning issue, even though we always consider it to be grammatical.
The first rule that every gmat taker learns is the difference between the use of that/which. This difference is not grammatical issue, it is an meaning issue.
Major portion of modifier/pronoun issue touches the meaning issue.

But the originator the post does have one important concern - how the prep companies are going to combat these changes and how soon.

I wish you all good. Let's meet in the battle field of GMAT. :)

for all those who want to appear in next 1-2 months this is an area of concern
there are two possibilities
1 if this change doesn't bother you at all then please go ahead with the GMAT leaving idioms aside
2 if you consider this information useful then please share the counter strategy (thats the real motive of this post)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 09:34
Warlock007 wrote:
you got 49 in the verbal?????????????????? as we are talking about SC here


A quick view of his profile gives you the answer.

Thanks for the warning. I'm taking the test in few days and this helps to be careful with my expectations.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 10:06
cano wrote:
Warlock007 wrote:
you got 49 in the verbal?????????????????? as we are talking about SC here


A quick view of his profile gives you the answer.

according to what i have seen he got 49 in quant that's why i asked him
cano wrote:
Warlock007 wrote:
Thanks for the warning. I'm taking the test in few days and this helps to be careful with my expectations.

the very purpose of this post was for you guys only who are taking rest in a few days
now you will not be surprised at least

the only tip i can give you is that please cross check your answer with the question stem and see if it makes sense

all the best for your test
storm it :) :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 10:46
Hi
Thanks for sharing.
Even before meaning was important. You have to think k whether the sentence is logical. This info is useful for us to pay more attention to meaning that to idioms.
But i would not exclude the possibility that on test will completely remove idioms.
Waiting for mohater's post.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 10:56
Pkit wrote:
Hi
Thanks for sharing.
Even before meaning was important. You have to think k whether the sentence is logical. This info is useful for us to pay more attention to meaning that to idioms.
But i would not exclude the possibility that on test will completely remove idioms.
Waiting for mohater's post.


When is it expected ?
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 13:25
Let's not rush into feeling uncomfortable yet. We will see the changes based on Mohater's report. Let's wait and don't get discourage. We are going to find a solution together, we are all trying to battle the gmat. If meaning in SC correction has become more important, then a good place to start practicing is the CR forum, where the meaning is essential to respond the questions correctly.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 21:56
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Hi all,

these are examples of SC related to recent changes in SC. Posted from e-GMAT.http://e-gmat.com/blogs/?p=745&utm_sour ... dium=email

G12 # 84
Correct choice – B
Incorrect But Grammatically Correct choice – C
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Ozone is formed in the atmosphere when A and B react with sunlight.
Per Incorrect Choice C – Ozone is formed in two ways: 1) in the atmosphere and 2) when A and B react with sunlight.


OG12#115
Correct choice – C
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – B
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Gall’s hypothesis is stated – different mental functions are localized in different parts of the brain. This hypothesis is widely accepted today.
Per Incorrect Choice B – Gall has certain hypothesis about different mental functions. This hypothesis is widely accepted today. The different mental functions – about which the hypothesis is – are localized in different parts of the brains.

OG Verbal Review 2 # 52
Correct choice – B
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – C
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Certain specific mammals – Australian egg-laying mammals – are a branch of the main stem of evolution. They were not developed independently from a common ancestor.
Per Incorrect Choice C – Certain specific mammals – Australian egg-laying mammals – are a branch of the main stem of evolution. Their development was not independent of a common ancestor.

GMATPrep Question
Rejecting the apprenticeship model of training social workers in philanthropic agencies, twentieth-century reformer Edith Abbott was convinced of social work education belonging in the university so that students could be offered a broad range of courses dealing with social issues.
Correct choice – D
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – B
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) - Edith Abbott rejected the apprenticeship model of training social workers. He believed in the idea of teaching social work in universities. This will enable offering to the students a broad range of courses dealing with social issues.
Per Incorrect Choice B – This sentence presents two independent things that Edith Abbott was convinced of. 1) That social work education should be in the university. 2) That students could be offered a broad range of courses. These two ideas are no longer connected as they were in the original sentence.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 23:52
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Here is some more info and background: http://www.knewton.com/blog/gmat/2011/0 ... ep-summit/


It is not focusing as much on the SC and idioms however. What I heard from Mohater is that the SC idiom impact may have been incorrectly interpreted by the first feedback received from the conference (including MGMAT blog post) but let's see what else surfaces.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 06:23
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Hey Guys!

Glad to see so much feedback on our blog article! I wanted to give you all a head's up that the second article has now been posted: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmac/

Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 07:31
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Hi, guys

As you can see, Caitlin just posted the link to our longer article.

Re: the meaning stuff, there are already examples of this in OG; meaning has always been one of the major issues. They've been changing the proportion of questions that test this, that's all. Someone who has focused 90% on grammar and only 10% on meaning is going to find the official test a lot tougher because that person hasn't focused enough on the meaning issue - and that issue is more prevalent on the real test now.

Re: the idiom stuff, I spoke directly with Larry* myself and he specifically said that (a) they want to get rid of idioms entirely, and (b) he "hopes" they're gone already, though he doesn't know whether that's actually the case, because it takes time to "scrub" all of the existing questions. This conversation occurred after the conference at the reception; two of my colleagues were with me, but I'm not sure who else from other companies was still around to hear. I can imagine that any attendees who weren't still there are now thinking, "Wait, he didn't say all of that during the conference!" That's true... he said it that evening at the reception. :)

My guess is that there probably are still some idiom Qs in the pool - and I also distinguish between two kinds of idioms in my longer blog post (see link from Caitlin above). The types of idioms that can still interfere with meaning... maybe they'll keep those.

*Larry is the VP of R&D and Chief Psychometrician of GMAC. Also, he said that they are getting rid of idioms specifically because they think idioms artificially penalize non-native speakers, and they don't want to do that - it's not fair.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 07:43
Thanks Stacy and Caitlin.

It has always been a pleasure to read your articles and replies on the questions posted by the users.
I wish to see you more active and helping us here as well. :)

PS: ( I m a big fan of you and Ron )


I request all the Gmat takers to consider this a welcome move and to continue with their studies with full passion.
Good luck.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 08:12
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We've been getting a lot of panicked messages about this new development and we urge that don't stress out too much. Just be aware of the announcement but also recognize that much of this could be to your benefit.

5 New Changes to GMAT Exam You Need To Know
http://www.gmatpill.com/about/5-gmat-exam/

Most of the changes were in the SC section--but they weren't really anything drastically different.

With SC - there could be multiple answer choices that are grammatically correct--but only one that does not alter the meaning of the original sentence.

Well, we've always been advising students to look at SC questions from 2 angles:
1) STRUCTURE
2) MEANING

Both must work.

For those who only look at STRUCTURE and fail to consider MEANING--well, you guys better start changing your approach. But for us here at GMATPill, it doesn't really change too much.

As for the phasing out of idioms--this is actually a GOOD thing---especially for non-native English speakers. Cultural references are unfair and I'm glad to hear about this. I actually saw this was already happening for many years so the announcement was not too much of a change--just further awareness about this development.

So before you get too panicked about this---look at the positives. The new approach is more realistic in many ways since it mimicks the process that a journalistic editor would go through when editing a sentence but not changing its original meaning.

The bigger changes come in June 2012 when the Integrated Reasoning section comes out and the new OG13 comes out in April 2012.

So be aware of the announcement and recognize how it can be beneficial for you. Hope that helps.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)   [#permalink] 19 Sep 2011, 08:12
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