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Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)

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29 Sep 2011, 09:00
Aj85 where are you from man??
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29 Sep 2011, 09:24
Nice one
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29 Sep 2011, 12:01
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lol Ill let you know. I am taking my test at 4 pm today
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29 Sep 2011, 13:30
The debrief made by MGMAT about this subject is great. MGMAT's team were at the GMAT summit and they published the details in its website.
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29 Sep 2011, 17:50
Great post!! Thank you for the clarity and info that is straight from the source

Posted from my mobile device
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29 Sep 2011, 22:08
Very good post. This will put end to all the rumours floating around. Thanks GMAT club for making it official
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29 Sep 2011, 23:37
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30 Sep 2011, 01:33
Thanks for this very useful post!
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30 Sep 2011, 06:08
Interesting that they mention fairness to international test-takers.

The MGMAT says that scoring higher on verbal is rare on the GMAT and so it's "worth more" in terms of overall score to, for example, score 5pts higher on the verbal than to score 5pts higher on the quantitative.

However, don't business schools take this information into account when evaluating a student? For example, if they look at a student from India or China who has a 45 quant and 35 verbal and a student from the US who has a 45 quant and at 40 verbal....it would seem that they should view those two scores as roughly equivalent. The American student has the advantage of the verbal section being in his or her native language and so obviously the American student's score should be higher, right?
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30 Sep 2011, 19:03
Interesting that they mention fairness to international test-takers.

The MGMAT says that scoring higher on verbal is rare on the GMAT and so it's "worth more" in terms of overall score to, for example, score 5pts higher on the verbal than to score 5pts higher on the quantitative.

However, don't business schools take this information into account when evaluating a student? For example, if they look at a student from India or China who has a 45 quant and 35 verbal and a student from the US who has a 45 quant and at 40 verbal....it would seem that they should view those two scores as roughly equivalent. The American student has the advantage of the verbal section being in his or her native language and so obviously the American student's score should be higher, right?

What about the relative advantage for Indian and Chinese students in the Quantitative sections ?
Also, though some aspects of verbal section may be advantageous for native speakers, overall the verbal section is not a test of English language. It has more to do with intent, comprehension, understandability. (if it were not so , we would have vocabulary questions instead of CR's). I feel GMAT is as fair an exam as possible in the currently diverse world .

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30 Sep 2011, 19:05
You can see how you compare within your pool of applicants here by the way:
gmat-tool-109370.html
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04 Oct 2011, 08:51
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04 Oct 2011, 09:06
Hey all,

Just wanted to follow up with the latest. Stacey wrote a second article about how to study with a focus on meaning in SC:

Quote:
I’m going to reiterate what I’ve been saying (and forgive me if you already heard this and got the message!): meaning issues have always existed, and there is plenty of existing material from which to study. We just didn’t concentrate as much on meaning before, because we were able to do more simply with grammar. They aren’t putting totally new kinds of SC questions out there – they’re just increasing the proportion of an already-existing issue.

Now, because in the “old” days, the proportion was skewed more towards “pure” grammar, we were often able to get away with just studying grammar and not worrying so much about meaning. We can’t get away with that now – we have to study the meaning as well. Luckily, the existing questions are already FULL of meaning issues, so we have plenty from which to study...

You can read the whole thing here: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... on-part-2/

(And if you're looking for that list of questions, Stacey put it together here: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... h-meaning/ )

Caitlin
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08 Oct 2011, 19:45
Thank you for the explanation; however, such changes, introduced without any preliminary information from GMAC, still seem not so fair, especially for non-native speakers. Several of my friends took their exam in September, and they also failed to find a reasonable explanation for their rather weak official results (650-670), although their GMAT Prep results were rather good (730-750). Now it's clear why it happened.
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09 Oct 2011, 03:43
ventresca1975 wrote:
Thank you for the explanation; however, such changes, introduced without any preliminary information from GMAC, still seem not so fair, especially for non-native speakers. Several of my friends took their exam in September, and they also failed to find a reasonable explanation for their rather weak official results (650-670), although their GMAT Prep results were rather good (730-750). Now it's clear why it happened.

what you are saying is a speculation for me, is a conjecture.

a lot of factors come into the picture. time, pressure, disguise and so on.......

the first time a read this post I thought: but if logical predication is a contsnt throughout Sc , why people are so surprised about that ??

In kaplan book the first strategy suggested is the meaning, MGMAT is the same (ok first rule is the grammar but for me always are two elements that overlapping on themselves ......
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16 Oct 2011, 19:22
I forget exactly what the Revolution Prep sentence correction strategy is from the book, but as a rule of thumb, I ALWAYS try to determine what message the original sentence tried to convey. If the underlined blurb is wrong or sounds awkward, I look for the grammatically correct choice that still conveys the intent of the original blurb. That only makes sense, and if this is the new thing that's on the GMAT, then I've done it already from the beginning of my prep.

There have been some posts about the fact that it's easier for native English speakers to do well on the verbal section. That's not necessarily true. the Critical Reasoning section involves critical thinking skills and analyzing arguments to their components and are just as hard for native speakers as non-native speakers, and reading comprehension isn't easy for many native speakers. However, for test takers who have a great grasp of English concepts, going great on verbal can pay dividends on the overall score.

I'm an American, and while verbal is my stronger section, (I got 37 on V, 45 on Q last prep test for a 670), it's not easy for many native speakers of English, since there are many native English speakers who will do great at quant and struggle in verbal, which explains why getting a great verbal score and an average or worse quant score means a better percentile than vice versa.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink]

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21 Oct 2011, 03:10
Hello all!

This was the reply I posted on the MGMAT web site. I think it bears emphasizing given people's reactions to this matter:

"There are more questions now in which two or more answers are grammatically correct, but only one maintains the meaning of the original question stem."

If these are like the examples that I have seen myself in the Official Guide, et c., I have to say that ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the time, when two answer choices have grammatically correct syntax and idioms but different semantics, the incorrect one is incorrect not so much because it fails to match the meaning of the original as because the meaning is, when you think about it long enough, illogical. This makes the sentence grammatically incorrect, because language is about communication, and grammatical rules are there to govern the output of this communication. A sentence fails when it does not say what the speaker wanted to say.

For that matter, the stem in Choice A can be semantically incorrect as well. Try this one, from MGMAT's own Sentence Correction book:

"Unskilled in math, Bill's GMAT Quant score was poor."

That's a faulty, illogical opening modifier (Bill's GMAT Quant score cannot be unskilled in math)--and therefore it is a semantic error. If something like that appears in choice A, you definitely should NOT preserve that original meaning in your final answer choice.

'When we asked how common idioms still are right now and when they would be gone completely, he said that “ideally” he hopes they’re all gone already, but there may still be some in the pool – it takes time to scrub the questions completely.'

I doubt whether you can COMPLETELY delete idiomatic aspects of grammar from the pool; they are as grammatical as everything else. Sure, you can write fewer questions that place emphasis on which preposition goes where, but questions that emphasize various aspects of the meaning of a sentence inevitably touch on proper diction and there will be some idiom in there by default.

“Note: a few days after this was originally published, GMAC clarified that only American-centric idioms and expressions have been stripped out of the exam. We have edited the below accordingly so as not to leave any misinformation to confuse other students in the future. (30 Sep 2011)”

Cheers!
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21 Oct 2011, 03:21
ventresca1975 wrote:
Thank you for the explanation; however, such changes, introduced without any preliminary information from GMAC, still seem not so fair, especially for non-native speakers. Several of my friends took their exam in September, and they also failed to find a reasonable explanation for their rather weak official results (650-670), although their GMAT Prep results were rather good (730-750). Now it's clear why it happened.

Hello,

I know it's frustrating, but unfair? That's a little harder. The GMAC tests the sample questions before putting them out there and they are weighed by difficulty in terms of the number of people who got them wrong.

Also, if they had coaches, perhaps it depended on who these coaches happened to be. I personally have been hearing for quite some time now that the GMAT is placing less and less emphasis on idioms and more and more on semantics and logic, because that is more within the psychometric spirit of the test. But a good GMAT coach ought to have already considered that idioms are not really in-line with this psychometric spirit, as they require an awful lot of memorization for a test that supposedly isn't about memorizing. I specialize in GMAT on Continental Europe (almost exclusively non-native English-speaking clientele) and my colleagues and I have been emphasizing semantics over idioms for well over a year, with sentence diagrams and the whole nine yards.
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27 Oct 2011, 18:51
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Hi ,

Thanks for the post.

But i have one question.

When you say, there can be more than one answer, does GMAT clearly call it out in the exam.

I mean do they give in the instructios that there can be more than one answer.

Regards,
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28 Oct 2011, 13:57
Does it mean that the SC section will focus more on logical meaning? That is, the sentence itself would be more difficult in logic to understand and some answers would be grammatically correct but meaningfully wrong?

OOOOOOOh, logic and comprehension become more and more important now, and the "dead" grammar rules are becoming less important, I think.
Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)   [#permalink] 28 Oct 2011, 13:57

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