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Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)

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Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 16 Sep 2011, 22:17
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Dear all

recently people who had appeared GMAT after 15th august normally reported disappointments
and too much deviation from their Avg mock test score (as much as 80-90 points)
even I posted my De-Brief got-destroyed-610-from-119906.html
i also wrote in this post that SC was entirely different from all prep material 4-5 were short ones

some people must have thought its only a way to gain sympathy and etc etc

but here is the big news for all of you

GMAC has made my Statement Official now!!!!!!!!!
YESSSSSS
you are reading it right SC will no more be as you have done in your prep materials

recently held 4th summit of GMAC officials declare the below major changes
1 No idioms will be Tested anymore
2 more than one answer will be correct
3 SC will be more about meaning

these changes are going to make impact in the following way
1 GMAC indirectly saying that they are going to favor native speakers now as only native speakers can do this without any specific study
2 GMAC declared it after making changes as according to Dr. Larry Rudner (the man behind GMAT) declared by now the pool should have changed completely


So my dear test takers specially non native mates
there is no such SC oriented material in the market or on the web as far s my knowledge goes
for those who are still thinking that i am cooking some story

please check out this link

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

i would like you guys to come out with your strategy to fight with this

best from me
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2011, 20:35
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This post will help all non-native speakers in general and Indians in particular.

Why should you read this post?

This is Sandeep Gupta, a GMAT Trainer in Bangalore India (running the company Ivy-GMAT). I have always had 99th percentile scores on the Verbal Section (in the range of 45 to 51) of the GMAT; also I have always scored 51 in the Quantitative Section. I have never scored less than 770 (Q51,V45) on any of my GMAT attempts.

I am writing what helped me get such scores time and again. If you are a native speaker, you may not find the post useful.

****

What I have been telling at my students for the last 20 months is FINALLY validated by the GMAC!

GMAT SC is all about meaning clarity. Two or more options can be grammatically correct ... the right meaning wins the day for you.

For more details, check ManhattanGMAT Blog:

"How to get that coveted 99th percentile score on the current-day GMAT?"

CAVEAT: All the recommendations mentioned below are for a 99th percentile score (for an average Indian student who happens to be average at Verbal). If you want to score less, you may proportionally reduce the input.

The GMAT has not announced the changes in the other sections but let me tell you all about them from my experiences:

RC:

Not even one direct question is being asked these days. All questions are based on purpose, main point, tone, and very subtle inferences. OCTAVE Technique wins the day for you hands down. You may miss it at your own peril.

SHOCKING as it may seem ...

NONE of the national / international GMAT training companies seem(s) to have any effective approach to tackle RC.

My approach to a 99th percentile score in RCs:

Step 1: Master OCTAVE

Step 2: Solve at least 200 CR inference questions (YES CR inferences not RC inferences), trying to understand how wrong answers are made wrong; also see HOW CLOSE the choices can be.

Step 3: Solve about 200-300 real GMAT + real LSAT passages using OCTAVE ... (Latest RC, OG 10, 11, 12, VR 1, VR 2, LSAT 60 papers)

Step 4: Try four-hour sittings with LSAT RCs (at least 8-10 sittings). As the GMAT is a four-hour long affair and as people struggle most while concentrating on RC, the best way to tackle this is to have four-hour long nonstop sittings with RC and only RC.

Step 5: For 2-3 consecutive days, solve at the rate of at least 40-50 LSAT passages per day (before your test).

If you promise all the above steps to the T, I guarantee 100% accuracy in RC ...

CR:

These days, all CR questions tend to be quite convoluted. You must be really good at deconstructing complex life- and business-situations given in complex language. Assumption / evaluate / complete the passage / numbers and percentages etc. happen to be the most favorite topics on the GMAT lately. Also, most students find it extremely hard to finish any CR question in about 90 seconds (the ideal time for CR).

My approach to a 99th percentile score in CRs:

Step 1: Master ACT ... Assumption Centrality Technique. You must be able to almost guarantee that you will never get any assumption question wrong.

Step 2: Take up about 50 BOLDFACE questions and deconstruct each argument threadbare. Don't mark the answers ... just do a threadbare analysis. Each statement can be either a supporting statement (evidence, premise, fact, consideration, situation, supporting reason etc.), or the conclusion of the author (prediction, opinion, judgement, hypothesis, position, claim etc.), or a sub-conclusion supporting the conclusion of the author, or the conclusion of the other party (usually some critics or some other people whose reasoning is countered by the author). The advantage of this process is that the entire approach to deconstructing any argument will become so crystal-clear to you that all the gaps in any argument (assumptions, flaws, irrelevant / incomplete / distorted evidence(s), number vs percentage jugglery etc.) will become obvious to you.

Remember: ASSUMPTIONS win the day for you.

Step 3: Master Evaluate the Argument approach ... You must be able to almost guarantee that you will never get any Evaluate question wrong.

Step 4: Try to see the numbers vs percents deception that is used so intelligently by the GMAT. You must be able to understand all the subtle nuances with numbers and percentages.

Step 5: Understand other types: Cause and effect, weaken, strengthen, paradox, inference, 2 speakers, situation reaction, complex chains of reasoning etc.

Step 6: Remember all the terms that mean "support to a conclusion" and all the terms that mean the "conclusion". Solve the aforementioned BOLDFACE questions (this time mark the answer :) ).

Content to refer: Latest CR, LSAT CR (60 papers), OG 10, 11, 12, VR 1, VR 2.

If you promise all the above steps to the T, I guarantee 95-100% accuracy in CR ...

SC:

People who go only by grammar rules and not by meaning clarity are going to be ravaged by this change.

My approach:

To get to 95-100% accuracy level in SC, one needs at least a six-month perspective from now on ... don't expect such accuracy by just a gimmicky preparation of a couple of months.

Start EARLY ... the GMAT will be a much more difficult test to crack with this new revision in SC.

Students targeting 2013 admits should start right from now!!

Step 1: Start reading The New York Times editorials online on a daily basis. Any similar quintessentially American text will also do (The Washington Post, Scientific American, National Geographic etc.). Just read for a couple of hours in the free time you get ... whenever possible.

This will help you improve drastically in all the areas: SC, CR, and RC.

Step 2: Master PRIMEX (Preferences, Rules, Intended Meaning, Exceptions, X-factor logic) technique with IM (intended Meaning) as the central guiding force.

Step 3: You must solve 50+38+100 question set at least 5-6 times ... from the point of view of meaning clarity.

Step 4: Solve only real GMAT content ... any material prepared by any other company is going to be quite unreliable. This may include Latest SC, OG 10, 11, 12, VR 1, VR 2, 9 old GMAT PDF papers, parts of 1000 SC ... only parts.

Step 5: Write brief explanations to all latest SC questions only from the point of view of Meaning Clarity. Force yourself not to use grammar or idiom for elimination. This will indeed be tough as a lot of questions are not based on meaning clarity, especially in OG 10, 11, and VR 1. When it is impossible to eliminate on the basis of meaning alone, use other elimination approaches.

Step 6: Create the right answers to all the aforementioned questions (as full sentences) and revise this set at least 4-5 times before the test. This step is used extremely effectively by the Chinese, who are able to crack SC in grand style.

One more thing: The earlier approach of just doing Manhattan SC book and the OGs alone may not be the foolproof approach.

Make sure you seek expert guidance; preparing for the GMAT in its new avatar on your own can be quite risky. Unless you see an expert explaining these questions from the point of view of meaning clarity, you will not be able to master them in style.

If you promise all the above steps to the T, I guarantee an accuracy of at least 95% in SC.

Quant:

Let's face it. Getting a 51 in Quant is no easy task. It means ensuring not more than one wrong answer.

I know people will hate me for this statement:

If you are fundamentally weak at or scared of Math, I am sure you can't turn the tables on the GMAT and score a 51 with mere preparation / practice. You may indeed reach a 49 or a 50 (easily) with a lot of study / practice ... but a 51 in Quant demands some level of mathematical intuition (already present in you).

My approach to a 51 score in Quant:

Solve all the DS questions first from the toughest possible content (Quant Latest and Quant 700-800). Get to the basics of each question. Don't see the solution too soon. Persist with each question until you finally give up / get the answer.

Referring to the solutions too soon is the biggest disservice that you can do to yourself in Math. You have to relish the toughness of the content and keep an extremely dogged approach ... tenacity is the name of the game.

You should reach a stage where your reaction time is less than 20 seconds (i.e., in 20 seconds you know precisely what you need to do to reach the solution). Also, if you are really good at GMAT Quant, not even one question should take you more than 2 minutes.

The next step will be 'mastery of each topic'. I still see that 9 out of 10 students who call themselves good at Math still have some weak topics in Math ... even one weak topic can ruin it for you.

Just remember that Q51 is not a smaller challenge than V44.

Q50 may happen for innumerable number of students but Q51 is a tough deal.

Feel free to contact me for any more doubts.

Cheers,
Sandeep
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 02:53
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WarLock ...?

" 1 GMAC indirectly saying that they are going to favor native speakers now as only native speakers can do this without any specific study "

Where did GMAC say this ??? The only thing it says is " they are moving towards completely phasing out idioms! They don’t want to penalize non-native speakers for things that don’t really interfere with comprehension and communication"

Do you understand what the above statement means ? It means Idioms have nothing to do with comprehension ( meaning or logical understanding ) and so Idioms have been in the process of phasing out ? I do not understand where it is mentioned that they are going to favor native speakers ! Meaning refers to logical meaning of a sentence. an option might be grammatically correct but depending on words chosen or placement of words sometimes can change the meaning of the sentence ! This is what is being emphasized ! Analyze a given fact even before you dwell out scaring thousands of minds preparing for the GMAT !

Dude WarLock , may be your test did not go well and you are frightening number of native speakers on the forum !!!

This is pessimistic attitude and if you are planing to re take I wish it does not come in the way and you reach your target !

I am emphasizing once again, As per the gmat blog from Mgmat , all we could decipher is :

1. Emphasis has been on questions with normal grammatical errors but after elimination we are always left with two grammatically correct answers now. So, eliminate the one that intends the meaning of original sentence .Seems like this is already in place. I do not understand how it will be a disadvantage to non native speakers like us. We are giving a international standardized test and whats the point if our standards of deciphering the meaning upon reading a sentence is low ? Are we that bad at understanding the logical meaning a sentence tries to convey ? These are just rumors or wrongly understood by warlock based on Mgmat blog.

2. Idioms will be completely eliminated soon. As of now there a few questions based on idioms in the pool. This is definitely good news to non native speakers, we need to cram several idioms as before !

As Mgmat blog mentions, let us wait till Monday to get more information on this. As of now I really do not think there is need to raise an outrage . At least most of the test takers here i guess are intelligent enough to not panic based on a biased view of a disappointed individual. We are Gmat takers and people with work experience. All these things should induce a sense of deeper analysis of the things. This is what most of the Gmat verbal section expect from us. We prepare for Gmat and yet fail to apply our reasoning skills to practical situations and panic on even every small change we hear of ! ;)

I already gave a reply to this ! check out my latest post. Dude no overlapping conflicts or neither I am after you. All i am asking is to wait till Monday and do not agitate people with completely deviated understanding of the blog Hope you take it in a good sense and we are here to prepare for GMAT ! - Our Common Goal !
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 29 Sep 2011, 06:44
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Official Response from the GMAC:

To Be Available on mba.com later today

[quote2Lawrence M. Rudner]Idioms, Sentence Correction, and the GMAT Exam

Recently there has been some discussion and questioning about the role and place of idioms and sentence correction as they apply to the skills tested in the GMAT exam. Much of what has been written has been well-reasoned, but some of what has been written is only partially accurate or reflects some misconceptions. With this posting, I hope to put these two important pieces of the GMAT exam in their proper place within the context of what the exam measures and how.

Idioms:

The general categories of language-use skill tested in GMAT Sentence Correction items haven’t
changed, and test takers do not need to do anything different to prepare for the Verbal section of the GMAT exam. For years, GMAC has paid close attention to the growing international make-up of GMAT test takers and has worked to assure that the exam is not viewed as─nor is it actually─an American test. As the GMAT exam has expanded globally and been taken by more students from around the world, GMAC has continually made extra efforts to ensure that newly introduced GMAT items do not depend on familiarity with distinctively American expressions and usages. We have taken steps all along the way to ensure global fairness and appropriateness.

Still, every language everywhere in the world consists of idioms, or standard constructions that are not literally derived from the most basic rules of grammar and vocabulary. Some Sentence Correction items continue to pose reasoning tasks that incorporate English-language, NOT American, idioms. These are not intended to test specialized knowledge of colloquialisms and regionalisms.

Grammar in Sentence Correction:

In recent years, GMAT item writers have been concentrating on the reasoning aspects rather than the purely grammatical aspects of Sentence Correction skills. As always, test takers need to carefully read the prompt in order to choose the answer that produces the most effective sentence. This means that whereas two sentences may both be grammatically appropriate, the correct answer is the sentence that is most “effective”─the sentence that better expresses the idea.

The end result is a GMAT exam that doesn’t test simply a person’s ability to memorize grammatical rules or recognize idioms for their colloquial meanings, but a test that rewards reasoning regardless of the test taker’s background.

The recent back and forth around whether idioms are in or out or how Sentence Correction works ignores the fact that the core purpose of the exam hasn’t ever changed, even as the way we treat certain categories in order to meet the needs of our ever expanding marketplace may have. The GMAT exam tests higher-order reasoning, and preparing for the exam remains an
exercise in developing and exercising those skills.

─Lawrence M. Rudner, GMAC vice president of research and development and chief psychometrician[/quote2]
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 04:55
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Memorising idioms is a cakewalk ? :O

Meaning change = misplaced modifier + Dangling modifier + omitting a crucial word like 'May' etc etc. Its not that meaning change has not been taught in test prep books till now. Meaning change is a big part of modifier error and even faulty comparisons.

Incorrect meaning -Jim biked along an old dirt road to get to his house, which cut through
the woods.

Corrected version - To get to his house, Jim biked along an old dirt road, which cut
through the woods.

Altered intent also makes meaning changes.

original sentence > Red wine, the finding of recent studies, may prevent serious heart problems in many adults (mgmat 1st edition)

corrected version 1 > Recent studies have found red wine to prevent heart problems in many adults.

corrected version 2 > Recent studies have found that red wine may prevent heart problems in many adults.

corrected version 1 is incorrect because it changes the meaning by omitting key word 'may'.

Again I say from your first post it looks you are seriously thinking Gmat's changes is absolutely against non-native speakers . You derived an absolutely wrong conclusion from manhattan blog. Be calm and cool and focus on studies. May be you and I cant beat Gmat. so what ? many people do. many people have done. Its not right to get demoralised by structural changes. Take everything in a positive way. and if you re-read the blog with cool head you will find the blog said 'There are already some examples of this in the existing, released materials (more about this on Monday), but these didn’t used to be as common'.

And again, the way you have reported manhattan blog is absolutely incorrect.

Many people getting destroyed etc ?. Considering many test takers don't even bother to write debriefs its completely illogical to derive inferences on small sample of any statistics.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 07:31
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Hi, guys

As you can see, Caitlin just posted the link to our longer article.

Re: the meaning stuff, there are already examples of this in OG; meaning has always been one of the major issues. They've been changing the proportion of questions that test this, that's all. Someone who has focused 90% on grammar and only 10% on meaning is going to find the official test a lot tougher because that person hasn't focused enough on the meaning issue - and that issue is more prevalent on the real test now.

Re: the idiom stuff, I spoke directly with Larry* myself and he specifically said that (a) they want to get rid of idioms entirely, and (b) he "hopes" they're gone already, though he doesn't know whether that's actually the case, because it takes time to "scrub" all of the existing questions. This conversation occurred after the conference at the reception; two of my colleagues were with me, but I'm not sure who else from other companies was still around to hear. I can imagine that any attendees who weren't still there are now thinking, "Wait, he didn't say all of that during the conference!" That's true... he said it that evening at the reception. :)

My guess is that there probably are still some idiom Qs in the pool - and I also distinguish between two kinds of idioms in my longer blog post (see link from Caitlin above). The types of idioms that can still interfere with meaning... maybe they'll keep those.

*Larry is the VP of R&D and Chief Psychometrician of GMAC. Also, he said that they are getting rid of idioms specifically because they think idioms artificially penalize non-native speakers, and they don't want to do that - it's not fair.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 06 Feb 2013, 20:14
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mikemcgarry wrote:
This is an old post, but I would like to comment on it.

Both the comments in this post and the MGMAT blog cited were written in 2011. Since then, GMAC has published the OG13, and this most recent official guide gives absolutely no indication that they are thinking of phasing out idioms. In my perspective, the idea that "no idioms will be tested anymore" is a deleterious rumor that induces poor folks preparing for the GMAT to neglect something vital that they ought to study.

See this post, which gives an analysis of the SC questions in the OG13.
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/how-import ... ment-13846

Mike :-)


OG13 is the latest offering from GMAC but the questions it gives are not latest. I really doubt that to put in the OG, GMAC painstaking picks out those questions which are closest to the current set of questions. OG only gives you a bunch of old questions to give you an idea of the kind of questions that were in their database a few yrs back. Too much value may not be gained by data mining those questions. I think it is more important to listen carefully to what GMAC representatives say: http://officialgmat.mba.com/2011/09/29/ ... gmat-exam/

As for 'how important are idioms', even in the old questions, it is apparent that very rarely would you be tested on an idiom alone. Since only language idioms (and not American) are being tested nowadays, any English speaking person would be aware of many of them. Every section of GMAT is based on higher order reasoning skills - so is the SC section. Hence, learning up long lists of idioms will be a waste of time and energy since there are 1000s of idioms and one does not know which one might appear. Instead, one needs to focus on reading more (to know the nuances of the language most commonly used) and build appropriate reasoning skills to help one identify the accurate meaning.

Quote from Larry Rudner's post: 'Some Sentence Correction items continue to pose reasoning tasks that incorporate English language, NOT American, idioms'
- which implies that the SC questions are primarily reasoning tasks. Some may incorporate language idioms too.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 16 Sep 2011, 23:06
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Hmm Thanks much for spreading out the news ! I followed the link and came across some excerpts that made me feel more like , instead of penalizing , GMAC is trying to make SC neutral to native and non native speakers alike. It's more like GMAC is now really getting better in terms of a " Standardized Test " . Why ? let me quickly outlay my points based on the minutes of 4th GMAC Test Prep Summit.

Excerpts from the 4th GMAC Test Prep Summit :



Many students have been reporting that Sentence Correction on the real test has been feeling… different this year. We had some theories as to what was changing, and we were able to get confirmation yesterday from Dr. Larry Rudner, who is in charge of psychometrics for GMAC (or, in less fancy language, he’s the one who’s responsible for the overall development and construction of the test).

My Analysis : This is making me nervous and blows the life out of me. But again , without deep diving into the issue, i do not think there is a need to become apprehensive. Know the facts, Analyze whats being told , Check the authenticity of the source. Only once done , let's figure out if we really need to press the panic button and shriek for help !

They’ve been writing more Sentence Corrections that emphasize issues surrounding meaning. There are more questions now in which two or more answers are grammatically correct, but only one maintains the meaning of the original question stem.so those who are focusing primarily on grammar without paying much attention to meaning are going to find the real test a lot harder.

My Analysis : Is it not true ? GMAC did emphasize menaing and proper diction makes a effective expression.

In fact OG12 clearly states
    " An effective sentence expresses an idea or relationship clearly and concisely as well as grammatically ".What does it mean ? The term "clearly" in the above statement refers to a sentence being unambiguous. That is the intended meaning should be clear and a well chosen option based on POE by application of grammar rules should retain the intended meaning. The term "concisely" refers to concision or style. The latest MGMAT SC Guide clearly discusses this " Grammar , Meaning and Concision " in detail in the very second chapter.

    Also in Logical predication section of OG 12 , it is stated that " If modifiers are not positioned clearly, they can cause illogical references or distort the meaning of the statement. "

So, all i can say its not that we are not aware of this change rather the clear emphasis on meaning is something we need to look at. We do have material that highlights the theoriticial value of this concept but yes i agree we need more and more practice with questions like this. Can someone guide on some source that gives us such practice ? OG 12 has few questions like that. May be verbal review official guide will have such more ! I am not sure as of yet.

Larry also told us that they are moving towards completely phasing out idioms! They don’t want to penalize non-native speakers for things that don’t really interfere with comprehension and communication, so they are moving away from idioms entirely.

My Analysis : This is really great news ! No more we do need to memorize loads of idioms. I felt this is one topic that being unfair to all non native speakers and GMAC's move make more sense . I fell it is poised toward the real meaning of a " Standardized test " hmmm

When we asked how common idioms still are right now and when they would be gone completely, he said that “ideally” he hopes they’re all gone already, but there may still be some in the pool – it takes time to scrub the questions completely. So that’s big news – we really shouldn’t be worrying about idioms any longer!

My Analysis : Wow that's it ! Though i am not taking the focus away from Idioms completely. At-least I do not need to cram up several flash cards and shift my focus to several other things of SC.

So, really am not running around to press the panic button . Idioms are gone or on the verge of becoming invisible ! That's good. But what is the official or test prep sources which allow me to practice questions based on new emphasis of SC " the meaning " ? Perhaps i can use verbal review edition 2 or not . This is the one questions that bothers me. Man we need more practice that complements the recently emphasized part of SC ! I will wait for it and see.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 20 Sep 2011, 01:27
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I have just posted 27 questions from the OG10 that deal with changes in meaning.

27-og10-question-on-altered-intent-changes-in-meaning-120871.html
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 06:23
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Hey Guys!

Glad to see so much feedback on our blog article! I wanted to give you all a head's up that the second article has now been posted: http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... -the-gmac/

Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Best,
Caitlin
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 22 Sep 2011, 09:49
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gmatgirl16 wrote:
Hi all...

This is serious! Are these changes in effect ?? how does one prepare for SCs now...!? I was really counting on SCs to be the easiest on verbal section... now we need to check them for meaning and all?!?! NOT GOOD. :(


These are not 'sudden changes' they are making to the format. These changes have been in-progress for a long time now. In my previous posts I have stressed on two things:

1. Do not focus too much on idioms. They are not the actual game changers.
2. Focus on the sentence that conveys the correct meaning.

Here is the link to one of my posts (21st July 2011) - looking-for-some-suggestion-mostly-verbal-117264.html#p950440

I specifically pointed out these two things.

Here is the blog post that gives you links of all the posts we have been putting on this topic for a long long time:
http://www.veritasprep.com/blog/2011/09 ... -old-song/

Things are not changing drastically. These changes have been going on for a while now. The test prep companies are aware and well prepared. We focus on these things in our SC books too. So there is no need to panic. GMAC has just formally declared what it has been doing for a while now.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 06 Feb 2013, 10:47
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Warlock007 wrote:
recently held 4th summit of GMAC officials declare the below major changes
1 No idioms will be Tested anymore

please check out this link
http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... orrection/

This is an old post, but I would like to comment on it.

Both the comments in this post and the MGMAT blog cited were written in 2011. Since then, GMAC has published the OG13, and this most recent official guide gives absolutely no indication that they are thinking of phasing out idioms. In my perspective, the idea that "no idioms will be tested anymore" is a deleterious rumor that induces poor folks preparing for the GMAT to neglect something vital that they ought to study.

See this post, which gives an analysis of the SC questions in the OG13.
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/how-import ... ment-13846

Mike :-)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 01:13
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Warlock007 wrote:
DOM1 wrote:
Hi guys,

I am non-native and I tend to think that these changes will be positive. i think these will make the exam more equal between native and non-native testers.



hey Dom1
read the post properly
1 we dont have any specific material which handles meaning issue
2 native speakers normally prepares for idioms and grammer rules only for gmat SC but now they dont need to as meaning is a daily routine for them
as its their language

DOM1 wrote:
Hi guys,
However, natives will always have some advantage


we all know that there will always a bias (or advantage)
all i want to say is that now its huge instead of small earlier

hope you understand what i am trying to say


thanks... re-read your comments again..so we dont have any material with examples of the change that is gonna come our way.. its an interesting challenge...

hey warlock.. i am a non-native speaker... but then again i dont think gmac as an international testing committe would want to offer any bias as such.. so really... instead of fighting over spilt milk (changes), lets face the challenges and give our best shot...

lets take this as a scenario where the client might suddenly change his plans at the time of signing contracts... and we have to make our effort to beat around him to get our job done!! :-)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 03:41
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ksp wrote:
Guys..
The subject of this topic followed by the 1st post created a lot o panic in me.
But then it doesn't seem to be so panicking.
As rightly said by hoogly, we can afford to wait till monday to get more insights on this rather than to press the panic button.



Dear KSP and other posters
where did I write the word PANIC

you are reading it wrong its ATTENTION

my only motives were as below
1 is there any material which accounts for this new orientation of GMAT
2 what strategy we should implement to counter this as earlier non natives have been mastering GMAT SC
3 the effect is far more than it looks from this post as the Meaning Issue will be too subtle it will not be a cakewalk as it was for idioms in which you need to remember almost 50-60 idioms
4 people who are not worried by this simple need to ignore this they are ready for GMAT SC by now as there will be less of rules and idioms and more of a meaning thing

last but not the least
instead of pointing out fingers please post something concrete in terms of material/approach

all the best to all GMAT takers
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 04:25
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bb wrote:


hey BB
thanks for the kudos
but your expert advice is needed man

please post your views on this
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2011, 15:09
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Very interesting discussion indeed. I saw a similar discussion in Sentence Correction forum of BTG as well. Check out the post with the title "Changes in Sentence Correction. An Important read!". I cannot post the url since I have fewer than 5 posts on GMATClub (disadvantages of being a silent spectator)..

My 2 cents - meaning has always been an integral part of SC. Its just we get lost in the myriad of rules and lose sight of this big picture...So the only "new" information here is the Great news that "idioms" will no longer be tested...I am really elated today...

Will definitely have a beer or two just to celebrate this...(I know I will see idioms in my test since idioms will not be phased out right away) but still i will celebrate...!

PS: (Will post the link once I have 5 posts)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 00:15
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bb wrote:
My opinion is that changes are good but they are also bad:

Good:
- International speakers don't have to worry about the vocab/idioms as much and not be discriminated as the result
[highlight]if i had a choice over idioms and meaning issue i would have chosen idioms.......[/highlight] 8-)
Bad:
- Any change creates uncertainty/confusion/misinformation/speculation and that's the case here as well

Overall I would say it will be helpful but will depend on how changes are implemented and how gradually/abrupt it will be done. I think verbal is already gray enough area and adding some new/unknown type of questions (multiple correct answer choices) may muddy the waters but we'll see.


Thanks for your feedback BB at least recent test takers are victims to this (including me) :x
and we need to write again with no specific material in hand
nonetheless
we will wait for mohter's post :) :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 07:31
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Guys pls do not panic. When we are playing the game we have to follow the rules. If we continue on beating the bush, the result will be zero.
Lets wait for the report of Mohater and Mgmat. The report of Mgmat is expected to be released on Monday.

I gave my Gmat last year and I still remember there were at least 2 questions where I had to chose between the 2 options that involved the IDIOMS, which I had never heard. So I really welcome the omission of Idioms.
Idioms always help the Native speakers, so the omission is definitely the welcome move for the Non natives.
check out the reply of recent Gmat taker from Pakistan.
from-530-to-710-my-debrief-120774.html#p976448

Moreover, the meaning issue if over rated in this post, though I highly appreciate his efforts to share the news and I sincerely wish him good luck for the next exam. I had score of 51 in all my practice tests( except 1 gmat) including the monster tests of Mgmat, still I got 49 in the real exam. So you never know what will happen. It is all god's grace.

I m coming back to the meaning issue. Half of the things that we have learnt about SC includes the meaning issue, even though we always consider it to be grammatical.
The first rule that every gmat taker learns is the difference between the use of that/which. This difference is not grammatical issue, it is an meaning issue.
Major portion of modifier/pronoun issue touches the meaning issue.

But the originator the post does have one important concern - how the prep companies are going to combat these changes and how soon.

I wish you all good. Let's meet in the battle field of GMAT. :)
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 18 Sep 2011, 21:56
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Hi all,

these are examples of SC related to recent changes in SC. Posted from e-GMAT.http://e-gmat.com/blogs/?p=745&utm_sour ... dium=email

G12 # 84
Correct choice – B
Incorrect But Grammatically Correct choice – C
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Ozone is formed in the atmosphere when A and B react with sunlight.
Per Incorrect Choice C – Ozone is formed in two ways: 1) in the atmosphere and 2) when A and B react with sunlight.


OG12#115
Correct choice – C
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – B
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Gall’s hypothesis is stated – different mental functions are localized in different parts of the brain. This hypothesis is widely accepted today.
Per Incorrect Choice B – Gall has certain hypothesis about different mental functions. This hypothesis is widely accepted today. The different mental functions – about which the hypothesis is – are localized in different parts of the brains.

OG Verbal Review 2 # 52
Correct choice – B
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – C
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) – Certain specific mammals – Australian egg-laying mammals – are a branch of the main stem of evolution. They were not developed independently from a common ancestor.
Per Incorrect Choice C – Certain specific mammals – Australian egg-laying mammals – are a branch of the main stem of evolution. Their development was not independent of a common ancestor.

GMATPrep Question
Rejecting the apprenticeship model of training social workers in philanthropic agencies, twentieth-century reformer Edith Abbott was convinced of social work education belonging in the university so that students could be offered a broad range of courses dealing with social issues.
Correct choice – D
Incorrect but Grammatically Correct choice – B
Analysis:
Per original sentence (choice A) - Edith Abbott rejected the apprenticeship model of training social workers. He believed in the idea of teaching social work in universities. This will enable offering to the students a broad range of courses dealing with social issues.
Per Incorrect Choice B – This sentence presents two independent things that Edith Abbott was convinced of. 1) That social work education should be in the university. 2) That students could be offered a broad range of courses. These two ideas are no longer connected as they were in the original sentence.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important) [#permalink] New post 19 Sep 2011, 08:12
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We've been getting a lot of panicked messages about this new development and we urge that don't stress out too much. Just be aware of the announcement but also recognize that much of this could be to your benefit.

5 New Changes to GMAT Exam You Need To Know
http://www.gmatpill.com/about/5-gmat-exam/

Most of the changes were in the SC section--but they weren't really anything drastically different.

With SC - there could be multiple answer choices that are grammatically correct--but only one that does not alter the meaning of the original sentence.

Well, we've always been advising students to look at SC questions from 2 angles:
1) STRUCTURE
2) MEANING

Both must work.

For those who only look at STRUCTURE and fail to consider MEANING--well, you guys better start changing your approach. But for us here at GMATPill, it doesn't really change too much.

As for the phasing out of idioms--this is actually a GOOD thing---especially for non-native English speakers. Cultural references are unfair and I'm glad to hear about this. I actually saw this was already happening for many years so the announcement was not too much of a change--just further awareness about this development.

So before you get too panicked about this---look at the positives. The new approach is more realistic in many ways since it mimicks the process that a journalistic editor would go through when editing a sentence but not changing its original meaning.

The bigger changes come in June 2012 when the Integrated Reasoning section comes out and the new OG13 comes out in April 2012.

So be aware of the announcement and recognize how it can be beneficial for you. Hope that helps.
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Re: Attention GMAT Takers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (very important)   [#permalink] 19 Sep 2011, 08:12
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