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Current Student
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 570
WE 1: Hi-tech Product Development
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ryguy904 wrote: So is this group under the opinion that if one gets a 750 and can put halfway decent essays together, he/she is better off than a 680 with good essays?
What about the guys with 750 and good essays?!? Welcome to GMATClub  Most of the guys here have 700+ scores and from the quality of the posts, pretty darn good essays as well.
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Manager
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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riverripper wrote: ryguy904 wrote: So is this group under the opinion that if one gets a 750 and can put halfway decent essays together, he/she is better off than a 680 with good essays? I would rather be a 710 with stellar esssay. Below average anything means you need to be strong in all other areas. Weak undergrad means stronger work experience. Weak work means very strong extras. Weak GPA means strong GMAT. However, you want the best essays you can get. The better the essays the better your chances. Good essays will work for super star applicants. But if you arent a McKinsey consultant or a banker at Goldman or an IT guy at Google...you are going to need to set yourself apart from the pack and the best way to do that is great essays and recs. My personal opinion,
GMAT is a challege presented to you with the convinience of studying all you want, making your own startegies, and all of us have equal access to resources. One can even try umpteen number of times.
So one that settles for less, in my opinion, lacks something. I am assuming that one who appears for the exam knows that he/she needs to do his best and has willingly decided to take the exam.
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Current Student
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 874
Location: Sunny So Cal
Schools: CBS, Cornell, Duke, Ross, Darden
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riverripper wrote: ryguy904 wrote: So is this group under the opinion that if one gets a 750 and can put halfway decent essays together, he/she is better off than a 680 with good essays? I would rather be a 710 with stellar esssay. Below average anything means you need to be strong in all other areas. Weak undergrad means stronger work experience. Weak work means very strong extras. Weak GPA means strong GMAT. However, you want the best essays you can get. The better the essays the better your chances. Good essays will work for super star applicants. But if you arent a McKinsey consultant or a banker at Goldman or an IT guy at Google...you are going to need to set yourself apart from the pack and the best way to do that is great essays and recs. I hear ya RR. I am at a 680 and applying to H/W/Chi/Colum/NYU/Kellogg. I'm not sure if I can bump up to 710, or if it is worth the risk of scoring 680 or lower on a second attempt. I have been spending A LOT of time on the essays and believe that I have pretty solid recs (but hey, who doesn't think they have solid recs?). Perhaps it's just my analytical mind at work, but I'm trying to get some sort of comfort factor, since the fact is, I am BELOW average on the GMAT. My GPA was 3.8 from a Cal State School, and I am a CFA Charterholder. I'm hoping that those factors with the best essays I can put together will get me in to one (or two!) of these schools.
Cheers
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Current Student
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
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Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. You need to have certain experiences to write good stuff. Rather simply put, if you dont have memorable experiences, then even your best written stuff can only get you half way there.
I think 710, with good stories AND stellar execution/essays, you will get through. 710 with boring stories AND stellar execution/essays MIGHT not get through. 710 with great stories AND avg execution/essays MIGHT get you through.
But agree with you on all other counts
riverripper wrote: ryguy904 wrote: So is this group under the opinion that if one gets a 750 and can put halfway decent essays together, he/she is better off than a 680 with good essays? I would rather be a 710 with stellar esssay. Below average anything means you need to be strong in all other areas. Weak undergrad means stronger work experience. Weak work means very strong extras. Weak GPA means strong GMAT. However, you want the best essays you can get. The better the essays the better your chances. Good essays will work for super star applicants. But if you arent a McKinsey consultant or a banker at Goldman or an IT guy at Google...you are going to need to set yourself apart from the pack and the best way to do that is great essays and recs. |
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Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading.
I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background.
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Senior Manager
Joined: 24 Jul 2007
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riverripper wrote: I think the GMAT score also has to take timing into account. You dont want to be studying for and taking the GMAT in December if you hope to apply this year. Your efforts of going from a 700 to a 750+ are going to take away all your time from applications. Applying in R2 with a 700 is far better than R3 with a 750+ (some schools wont allow internationals in during R3 because of visa issues).
You are right about my stellar...but I think that with enough thought most people can pick out great stories and make them work well. Stellar essays for Chicago GSB would be pretty easy even without a lot of great material. Essay 1 is a the typical why an mba, why now, why here...not much required for experience there, essay 2 is whose shoes...once again no material required. #3 was the PPT and that can be a shot at creativity and its only 4 slides so hopefully anyone could come up with enough interesting stuff for 4 slides.
MIT on the other hand, god help you if you dont have great experiences to draw from.
Since you brought GSB up, what is the widely followed strategy as regards to essays ? I personally find inserting stories/ anecdotes in such straightforward / pointed essays as essay 1 of GSB almost impossible without appearing as one who is tailoring their essays according to what the school wants. Or have people found ways to mix stories with plans in some way? In my opinion that would be ideal though.
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GMAT Club Legend
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4319
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Followers: 68
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My plans build off my career and experiences so I definitely used stories. You need to personalize any essay so it doesnt sound cookie cutter. You dont want an adcom to be able to read your essay and be able to say it fits for 100 other applicants. Yes that is difficult but its doable.
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Manager
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background.
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Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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anadimisra wrote: mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background. Great point.
Also, delivery is the most important aspect in communication. It's not what you say. It's how you say it.
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Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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anadimisra wrote: mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background. Well, even a made up story can make an essay stellar. But it is still the story making the essay stellar, not just the way of delivery. I am not trying to weigh how many people completely make up stories for essays. Hopefully not a lot of them. But, what I am saying is that without content, your "way of delivery" is not as valuable. We end up focusing too heavily on where each sentence should go, how many words our essay should have etc instead of focusing on the content of the essay.
Think about it .. if you are an amazing essay writer, but you have absolutely no stories to tell, then will you be able to convince MIT adcom? Check MIT's essays .. and tell me how can anybody write admit-worthy essays without strong stories (Made up or not). What kind of amazing essays can you write without content anyway?
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Senior Manager
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
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riverripper wrote: mNeo wrote: anadimisra wrote: mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background. Well, even a made up story can make an essay stellar. But it is still the story making the essay stellar, not just the way of delivery. I am not trying to weigh how many people completely make up stories for essays. Hopefully not a lot of them. But, what I am saying is that without content, your "way of delivery" is not as valuable. We end up focusing too heavily on where each sentence should go, how many words our essay should have etc instead of focusing on the content of the essay. Think about it .. if you are an amazing essay writer, but you have absolutely no stories to tell, then will you be able to convince MIT adcom? Check MIT's essays .. and tell me how can anybody write admit-worthy essays without strong stories (Made up or not). What kind of amazing essays can you write without content anyway? Remember MIT also does not have blind interviews. They are performed by adcoms who know your application very well. Also they use behavioral interviews, so its pretty much a sure bet that they are going to dig into your essays. During my visit they talked about a girl whose essays they loved and were going to admit until they interviewed her and it was obvious that she had written what she felt they wanted to hear even though she had no clue beyond what she wrote. did this girl want to go into the automotive industry?
if so, i heard the same story
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Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
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Absolutely. We all polish our candidacy a bit in applications and in resumes in general. We all try to take too much credit for successes that we may not be solely responsible for. I will always try to highlight how innovative I am even if "naming my future kid mNeo Jr." is the most innovative thing that I ever did.
But there has to be a limit. If you are starting the next stage of your life with a (set of) big lie, then you are not having a very strong foundation. Meh, I guess I went overboard with idealism there. But I think you know what I mean.
Last edited by mNeo on 05 Dec 2007, 15:29, edited 1 time in total.
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GMAT Club Legend
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4319
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
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CookieMonster wrote: riverripper wrote: mNeo wrote: anadimisra wrote: mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background. Well, even a made up story can make an essay stellar. But it is still the story making the essay stellar, not just the way of delivery. I am not trying to weigh how many people completely make up stories for essays. Hopefully not a lot of them. But, what I am saying is that without content, your "way of delivery" is not as valuable. We end up focusing too heavily on where each sentence should go, how many words our essay should have etc instead of focusing on the content of the essay. Think about it .. if you are an amazing essay writer, but you have absolutely no stories to tell, then will you be able to convince MIT adcom? Check MIT's essays .. and tell me how can anybody write admit-worthy essays without strong stories (Made up or not). What kind of amazing essays can you write without content anyway? Remember MIT also does not have blind interviews. They are performed by adcoms who know your application very well. Also they use behavioral interviews, so its pretty much a sure bet that they are going to dig into your essays. During my visit they talked about a girl whose essays they loved and were going to admit until they interviewed her and it was obvious that she had written what she felt they wanted to hear even though she had no clue beyond what she wrote. did this girl want to go into the automotive industry? if so, i heard the same story I am pretty sure thats what it was. I recall the guy saying he asked her something about Toyota and she just stared blankly at him.
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GMAT Club Legend
Status: Um... what do you want to know?
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Posts: 5463
Location: SF, CA, USA
Schools: UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
WE 1: Social Gaming
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zakk wrote: pfffft. I can't wait for your "I got accepted to every school, how do I make a choice" thread.  pppshaw... 
I wish... I only wish. 
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VP
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
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riverripper wrote: CookieMonster wrote: riverripper wrote: mNeo wrote: anadimisra wrote: mNeo wrote: dosa_don wrote: Well I personally think that the whole 'stellar' essays thing is a little misleading. I agree. Stellar essays mean nothing without stellar stories or background. I disagree mNeo. No one verifies stories from your background. Well, even a made up story can make an essay stellar. But it is still the story making the essay stellar, not just the way of delivery. I am not trying to weigh how many people completely make up stories for essays. Hopefully not a lot of them. But, what I am saying is that without content, your "way of delivery" is not as valuable. We end up focusing too heavily on where each sentence should go, how many words our essay should have etc instead of focusing on the content of the essay. Think about it .. if you are an amazing essay writer, but you have absolutely no stories to tell, then will you be able to convince MIT adcom? Check MIT's essays .. and tell me how can anybody write admit-worthy essays without strong stories (Made up or not). What kind of amazing essays can you write without content anyway? Remember MIT also does not have blind interviews. They are performed by adcoms who know your application very well. Also they use behavioral interviews, so its pretty much a sure bet that they are going to dig into your essays. During my visit they talked about a girl whose essays they loved and were going to admit until they interviewed her and it was obvious that she had written what she felt they wanted to hear even though she had no clue beyond what she wrote. did this girl want to go into the automotive industry? if so, i heard the same story I am pretty sure thats what it was. I recall the guy saying he asked her something about Toyota and she just stared blankly at him. Yep, I was told the same when I visited MIT. Story of a girl who blew it during interview...
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Senior Manager
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Nsentra wrote: rhyme wrote: heck I know one guy who just called up his Fraternity president and got him to say he'd been actively involved for years in their community service activities, even gave him a "title"- that's pretty disturbing actually (and I come from Eastern bloc). i would hope that when I work on a team with MBA students in one of the top institutions there is some threshold of integrity. Sorry, but this sort of corruption is found all over the place. I believe the eastern bloc has plenty of it no? Well, my bet is that MOST of the people you meet will have integrity, and this is just one example.
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Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
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defenestrate wrote: Nsentra wrote: rhyme wrote: heck I know one guy who just called up his Fraternity president and got him to say he'd been actively involved for years in their community service activities, even gave him a "title"- that's pretty disturbing actually (and I come from Eastern bloc). i would hope that when I work on a team with MBA students in one of the top institutions there is some threshold of integrity. Sorry, but this sort of corruption is found all over the place. I believe the eastern bloc has plenty of it no? Well, my bet is that MOST of the people you meet will have integrity, and this is just one example. What do you mean by eastern bloc?
It doesn't have to be blatant corruption. How many b school applicants really like volunteering or waking up early every saturday to tutor kids?
Not many I assume.
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Director
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
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Eastern Bloc refers to the former Soviet Union and its former Eastern and Central European allies (e.g. Poland, Romania, East Germany, Hungary, former Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria).
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Current Student
Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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shmegs wrote: if an applicant falsifies accomplishments to get into bschool it reflects poorly on his/her ethics.
Not to mention the fact that it makes the people who actually did something look like they did nothing extraordinary.
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CEO
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hope some of you can carry johnnyx9's fine legacy on gmatclub forward.
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