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Bad Attitude

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Bad Attitude [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 18:35
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By the end of the whole application process I was pretty tired of it
all. Did anybody else get tired of second-guessing everything? There
are some hypocritical elements of the "ad-com" stance. Montauk's book
has quotes from ad-coms where they talk about what they look for, and
there are a lot of conflicting things that drove me nuts. For instance
things like (making these up) :

"A lot of people get caught in the trap of telling us what they think
we want to hear, we just want essays that show a person's personality,
they shouldn't be concerned about what they think we want to hear," -
Jackass Ad-com #1

"When we read essays, we want very specific examples of why you want
to do XYZ. We expect applicants to have a crystal clear vision of why
they need an MBA, what companies they might work for, what specific
classes they're interested in," Jackass Ad-com #2

"Some essays people mention specific companies they want to work for
and positions they want. This is silly because we know many people
want to change industries, and that level of detail seems silly, so we
really just look for people with a good sense of their own strengths
and weaknesses," Jackass Ad-com #3

"Don't just give us a bunch of examples of why you're a great leader,
tell us why," Jackass Ad-com #4

"Show, don't tell," Jackass Ad-com #5

It all gets aggravating after a while, all the contradictions. There
were some discussions here (or was it on BW) where people were arguing
over Stern essay #1 that asks "Why an MBA?" Some people said that the
question necessarily implies "Why Stern?" while other people said,
"Read the question, they don't ask about Stern in that essay so don't
address that, ad-coms want to know that you can follow the
directions."

At the end of the day I kind of have this bad attitude, like F all of
that stuff, here's my application, if you don't like the fact that I
didn't mention specific classes then F off. Or if you don't like that I DID mention specific classes, F off. And if you think my career vision is too
specific, F off. If you think it's too vague then F off. How do you like me now?
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 18:47
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HA! And SCREW YOU! I don't want in your stinkin' school anyway.

Yep, totally bad attitude. And for some reason, I developed a nasty dislike of Harvard, and I didn't even apply there. I mean, I read their essay topics, checked out their site, and then decided I was mad at them.

I am over all of that now (well, except HBS. Still mad at them), but I was cranky and crabby by the time it was over. And normally my disposition is as sweet as honey. I mean, I'm the original sunshine-and-light.
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 19:14
aaudetat wrote:
HA! And SCREW YOU! I don't want in your stinkin' school anyway.



Let's just hope my boss will let me keep working there after he wrote me a recommendation and i just got dinged all over the place.. "You still here, damn"
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My ranting [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 19:35
There are several things that drive me nuts from this process:

1) How some Top school students or alumni think they are superior beings. Typically, from the people I've met, the younger ones are the most conceited.

2) Always-on overexcited students / alumni. Chill dude(tte), just confess you sometimes watch(ed) TV and cut the BS on the experience being so intense that you only slept 2 hours / day for months at a time.

3) Club - mania: the process made me feel as if you are worthless unless you have led or founded some club(s). Well it just happens that clubs are not so common in this part of the world. Does that make my extras weak? I would not say so, they were just not developed within the "club" frame.

I know my post will not be very useful but I needed to let off steam and came across this post.

Cheers. L.
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 20:27
For me the subjectiveness of the whole process did the trick.

Cornell/Darden think it can know an applicant with only two 400-word essays.
Chicago/Haas and others think it can do that with 5 essays.
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jan 2007, 20:35
I had a horrible interview with UCLA. I have a graduate degree and around 7 years of work experience. The interviewer harped on what electives I took during undergrad (Heck, I don't remember) and my social activities during college which were plentiful but....HELLLOOO ?! I have grown up and have more recent things to talk about. I have moved on with my life...why don't you move on ?




jaynayak wrote:
For me the subjectiveness of the whole process did the trick.

Cornell/Darden think it can know an applicant with only two 400-word essays.
Chicago/Haas and others think it can do that with 5 essays.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 06:45
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Exactly, I mean I can go over my transcript and try to remember anecdotes from my undergraduate classes but really, I'm not a young knucklehead like I was back then, I've moved on, ask me about something I've done recently.

That's another aggravating part of the whole process, all the pretense. I mean, I'm a good person and everything, but no, I'm not really "passionate" about my work, I'm passionate about sitting on a beach and reading a book. I'm passionate about watching football on Sunday, I'm passionate about going out on the town with friends. My work? Yeah, I enjoy it, and I know that I'm making some small but important contributions to my industry, but I'm not some genius that's making waves in the industry, otherwise I wouldnt' need to go to your godam elitist school. And no, I don't have any community service to speak of, maybe that makes me selfish because I spend my free time playing sports and doing things for myself, but hey, I'm not going to go out and rack up some token community service just for my application.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 07:52
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Amen to that...

The comminity service aspect I think is such a scam. Its either Habitat, United way or other large organizations that dominate this front.

A friend's freind was rejected at Wharton a couple of years ago. Her feedback was lack of community service. She started doing habitat and wrote some leadership experience on it as a re-applicant and guess what - she got in. This reaks of opportunism.


johnnyx9 wrote:
That's another aggravating part of the whole process, all the pretense. I mean, I'm a good person and everything, but no, I'm not really "passionate" about my work, I'm passionate about sitting on a beach and reading a book. I'm passionate about watching football on Sunday, I'm passionate about going out on the town with friends. My work? Yeah, I enjoy it, and I know that I'm making some small but important contributions to my industry, but I'm not some genius that's making waves in the industry, otherwise I wouldnt' need to go to your godam elitist school. And no, I don't have any community service to speak of, maybe that makes me selfish because I spend my free time playing sports and doing things for myself, but hey, I'm not going to go out and rack up some token community service just for my application.

Last edited by agsfaltex on 30 Jan 2007, 15:27, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 08:46
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johnnyx9 wrote:
Exactly, I mean I can go over my transcript and try to remember anecdotes from my undergraduate classes but really, I'm not a young knucklehead like I was back then, I've moved on, ask me about something I've done recently.

That's another aggravating part of the whole process, all the pretense. I mean, I'm a good person and everything, but no, I'm not really "passionate" about my work, I'm passionate about sitting on a beach and reading a book. I'm passionate about watching football on Sunday, I'm passionate about going out on the town with friends. My work? Yeah, I enjoy it, and I know that I'm making some small but important contributions to my industry, but I'm not some genius that's making waves in the industry, otherwise I wouldnt' need to go to your godam elitist school. And no, I don't have any community service to speak of, maybe that makes me selfish because I spend my free time playing sports and doing things for myself, but hey, I'm not going to go out and rack up some token community service just for my application.


I am pretty much the sameway as is probably 95% of population, but the problem is MBA degree is training for future CEOs and once you become a CEO you can't think of doing things for yourself, you have to work with community and do things that benefit others around in more meaningful ways then throwing a superbowl party for example.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 09:13
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Yeah, good point. I totally agree that someone who is willing to work with their community at a young age is someone who will be a good alumnus and someone who will be a good business leader. It's a shame that people who are naturally inclined to help others are hard to distinguish from the glut of people who do community service for the sake of b-school apps.

Of course I'm kicking myself for not taking on volunteer work in the years since college, but this process has definitely broadened my view on a lot of things and I'm now begining to get involved in community service just for the sake of getting involved. I think a few other people have said similar things on this forum, i.e. applying to school made them realize that there is a lot of amazing stuff they can do with their free time.

I think going to school, as in kindergarten thru high school, I hated school so much because it was something you were "forced" to do, so through college and immediately after college it was great having more control over free time, but now as I'm getting older I realize that being commitment-averse, and just maximizing my leisure-time is kind of silly, and it's actually enjoyable to get involved with things that probably would have seemed boring or like a hassle to me several years ago.
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Re: Bad Attitude [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 10:03
johnnyx9 wrote:
By the end of the whole application process I was pretty tired of it
all. Did anybody else get tired of second-guessing everything? There
are some hypocritical elements of the "ad-com" stance. Montauk's book
has quotes from ad-coms where they talk about what they look for, and
there are a lot of conflicting things that drove me nuts. For instance
things like (making these up) :



well said , even i had the same opinion after going thru the app proces

For Ex: GMAT is just one data point - Jack Ass # 1

Second: Take it as many times as u want - Jack Ass # 2

what the F....K is that..if GMAT is so important ..just come and say..sub 700 score DONT EVEN bother to apply

Along these lines, i could find many issues

Recos: Dont try to write them..but COACH THEM

Give him ur essays, goals etc/....I bet majority of the appln write their own recos and get them rubber stamped..

i can go on and on...
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 10:04
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That's another aggravating part of the whole process, all the pretense. I mean, I'm a good person and everything, but no, I'm not really "passionate" about my work, I'm passionate about sitting on a beach and reading a book. I'm passionate about watching football on Sunday, I'm passionate about going out on the town with friends. My work? Yeah, I enjoy it, and I know that I'm making some small but important contributions to my industry, but I'm not some genius that's making waves in the industry, otherwise I wouldnt' need to go to your godam elitist school. And no, I don't have any community service to speak of, maybe that makes me selfish because I spend my free time playing sports and doing things for myself, but hey, I'm not going to go out and rack up some token community service just for my application.

Couldn't have expressed this any better.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 12:34
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Wow what a thread. It's funny in a sense, I had been thinking about this over the last few weeks. Now that I've been through it, I realize just what a pile of bullshit the whole process is - from applicant to adcom. The number of applicants I've seen take on roles solely for the purpose of admission, who really don't care - heck I know one guy who just called up his Fraternity president and got him to say he'd been actively involved for years in their community service activities, even gave him a "title"- all the way to the adcoms that preach GMAT doesn't matter but the numbers speak for themselves. Just find the Kellogg thread, there's absolutely no question that GMAT plays a huge role. Unless you believe that the GMAT is actually a great predictor of ability - and thus those with high GMAT scores will likely have better careers and better essays - there's absolutely no question that the numbers do 100% play into the whole thing. I'm tired of hearing from adcoms that GMAT "is just one piece" - its like my telling you the engine of my car is just "one piece". Sure, thats true, but without it, I'm not going very far am I? Just be honest and say "Yea, its just one piece, but if it's not good, your odds are slim. Not impossible, but substantially harder. We care because it affects our rank, so we need to be careful with GMAT scores." That would seem to be a much more honest answer.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 16:43
rhyme wrote:
heck I know one guy who just called up his Fraternity president and got him to say he'd been actively involved for years in their community service activities, even gave him a "title"-


that's pretty disturbing actually (and I come from Eastern bloc). i would hope that when I work on a team with MBA students in one of the top institutions there is some threshold of integrity.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 20:02
rhyme wrote:
Wow what a thread. It's funny in a sense, I had been thinking about this over the last few weeks. Now that I've been through it, I realize just what a pile of bullshit the whole process is - from applicant to adcom. The number of applicants I've seen take on roles solely for the purpose of admission, who really don't care - heck I know one guy who just called up his Fraternity president and got him to say he'd been actively involved for years in their community service activities, even gave him a "title"- all the way to the adcoms that preach GMAT doesn't matter but the numbers speak for themselves. Just find the Kellogg thread, there's absolutely no question that GMAT plays a huge role. Unless you believe that the GMAT is actually a great predictor of ability - and thus those with high GMAT scores will likely have better careers and better essays - there's absolutely no question that the numbers do 100% play into the whole thing. I'm tired of hearing from adcoms that GMAT "is just one piece" - its like my telling you the engine of my car is just "one piece". Sure, thats true, but without it, I'm not going very far am I? Just be honest and say "Yea, its just one piece, but if it's not good, your odds are slim. Not impossible, but substantially harder. We care because it affects our rank, so we need to be careful with GMAT scores." That would seem to be a much more honest answer.


Which Kellogg thread are you referring to? The R2 thread? I just read it and don't see anything referring to the GMAT.

Post a link?
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 20:19
HA! This thread delivers!!!

Adcomm: Please tell us in your essays what makes you unique.

Me: What makes your school unique?

Adcomm: We're good at making leaders... blah blah blah .... BS.

Bottom line is every applicant and every school is the same.

Me: I have a 2.2 GPA and a 420 GMAT. Do I have a chance at your school?

Adcomm: It's hard to say. I'll have to see the rest of your application. (in his mind: You dumbass, I want your money)
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 20:26
No, you see, it's all about the collaborative learning community where students learn general management skills while also having depth and breadth. Yep, every damn school.
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 20:32
This is the funiest threat I have read! I was getting worried about my applications, and this cracked me up! :twisted: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jan 2007, 21:44
Man I feel this thread - I am fed up too but its all part of the process. We chose this so why should we complain? At the end of the day we are all qualified and will end up somewhere - hopefully somewhere outside of our current employers.
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jan 2007, 06:28
Is this whole thing pretty phony and hooky...absolutely! But it seems to me that it representative of most job interviews.....Bob, tell me about a time when you solved a probelm,, hahaha.. no different, just a big stupid game that must be played to achieve the end goal.. but it becomes really painful to go through it no doubt.
  [#permalink] 31 Jan 2007, 06:28
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