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Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA..

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Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 12:15
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SO i went to A days II and the BDW..

MOney aside.. I was offered money from both the places and I had a lot of fun at both the weekends. I didn't go to bed till 5:30 at Duke on both the days.. and I was the last one to leave bars at A DAYS II. I am the atypical Int'l student. Here is my take..

I was dissapointed on getting waitlisted at Kellogg but after these two weekend trips, i felt happy and was proud of myself of getting into two great schools with money..kellogg is the last thing in my mind now..

My career goals: .. My ideal job would be doing Ibanking for a big firm in Asia. For example : M&A for Lehman in India.. try to get paid in dollars.. or starting my onw firm out of school (if my idea works) or if I get fascinated with some one'e else's idea, work with them.

I loved UCLA and Duke equally but here are few things I would like to highlight

Culture/Fit wise: UCLA/Duke attract similar people. I had a blast at both the weekends. I am an outgoing person and was out real late in both the places. Before going to UCLA, I thought UCLA to be a commuter school but now I dont think it is. I think there is a good community feeling among the UCLA students may be not as tight knit as Duke's because of its location. I am still a bit concerned about it being a commuter school but from i heard/saw and talked to students, I think it should be least of my worries. I am jut being paranoid.. I will spend so much time with my classmates that its inevitable to be close with them.. LA just gives an advantage of doing other stuff if someone wants to.. I just need to make sure that i join clubs and get involved as much as i can.. I can see myself hanging out with my classmates in both the schools.

Career: From what I saw.. Finaince/Entertainment/ Media.. UCLA is clear winner.. Consulting/Marketing: Duke is a clear winner. I want to work in Hong Kong, India post graduation. UCLA might have a slight advantage considering its location. But I think I will have to work hard in both location to get a job that I want in these locations and get paid in dollars. (HongKong/ India) Its not like I am going to HSW, that jobs will come to me.. I WILL have to Network.. I will have to get my sh*t done on time.. i WILL have to be on top of my game..

Alumni Strength: Duke.. has a tighter knit community.. I am sure UCLA's alumni strength in West coast is pretty strong.. Over all Duke might have a slighter advantage.

Academics: All the top 10 school you will learn the same thing.. I think so.. HSW might be a bit different but I am not going to those schools so why even worry..

If you are the kind of person who likes security, go to Duke.. Duke will go out of its way to make sure you get a job and you are happy. You are almost certain that you will get a job you will like and they will make you happy. It is a private university and has money to spend. UCLA on the other hand is a bit risky. It is ofcourse entreprenuerial in spirit. I mean you will have to work hard for the job you want but again as risk entails you might get something you never dreamt of or you would just be worried of getting anything in your kitty. Its a public university and has its limitations..

To add I also found out that historically Duke has a better reputation..

Though everyone tells me Duke might be a better(safer) option for me, I am leaning towards UCLA. UCLA entails risk but there is a higher chance that I might bring my dreams to reality (start my own company and be my own boss).

I don't know what I am going to do.. but I know I will be happy wherever I end up GOING!
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 13:47
Very educational post. Curious, and perhaps aau can chime in as well, why the Duke employment stats looked horrific in the recent US News rankings if the school "goes out of its way to get you a job"...?

Cheers-
RG

bewakoof wrote:
SO i went to A days II and the BDW..

MOney aside.. I was offered money from both the places and I had a lot of fun at both the weekends. I didn't go to bed till 5:30 at Duke on both the days.. and I was the last one to leave bars at A DAYS II. I am the atypical Int'l student. Here is my take..

I was dissapointed on getting waitlisted at Kellogg but after these two weekend trips, i felt happy and was proud of myself of getting into two great schools with money..kellogg is the last thing in my mind now..

My career goals: .. My ideal job would be doing Ibanking for a big firm in Asia. For example : M&A for Lehman in India.. try to get paid in dollars.. or starting my onw firm out of school (if my idea works) or if I get fascinated with some one'e else's idea, work with them.

I loved UCLA and Duke equally but here are few things I would like to highlight

Culture/Fit wise: UCLA/Duke attract similar people. I had a blast at both the weekends. I am an outgoing person and was out real late in both the places. Before going to UCLA, I thought UCLA to be a commuter school but now I dont think it is. I think there is a good community feeling among the UCLA students may be not as tight knit as Duke's because of its location. I am still a bit concerned about it being a commuter school but from i heard/saw and talked to students, I think it should be least of my worries. I am jut being paranoid.. I will spend so much time with my classmates that its inevitable to be close with them.. LA just gives an advantage of doing other stuff if someone wants to.. I just need to make sure that i join clubs and get involved as much as i can.. I can see myself hanging out with my classmates in both the schools.

Career: From what I saw.. Finaince/Entertainment/ Media.. UCLA is clear winner.. Consulting/Marketing: Duke is a clear winner. I want to work in Hong Kong, India post graduation. UCLA might have a slight advantage considering its location. But I think I will have to work hard in both location to get a job that I want in these locations and get paid in dollars. (HongKong/ India) Its not like I am going to HSW, that jobs will come to me.. I WILL have to Network.. I will have to get my sh*t done on time.. i WILL have to be on top of my game..

Alumni Strength: Duke.. has a tighter knit community.. I am sure UCLA's alumni strength in West coast is pretty strong.. Over all Duke might have a slighter advantage.

Academics: All the top 10 school you will learn the same thing.. I think so.. HSW might be a bit different but I am not going to those schools so why even worry..

If you are the kind of person who likes security, go to Duke.. Duke will go out of its way to make sure you get a job and you are happy. You are almost certain that you will get a job you will like and they will make you happy. It is a private university and has money to spend. UCLA on the other hand is a bit risky. It is ofcourse entreprenuerial in spirit. I mean you will have to work hard for the job you want but again as risk entails you might get something you never dreamt of or you would just be worried of getting anything in your kitty. Its a public university and has its limitations..

To add I also found out that historically Duke has a better reputation..

Though everyone tells me Duke might be a better(safer) option for me, I am leaning towards UCLA. UCLA entails risk but there is a higher chance that I might bring my dreams to reality (start my own company and be my own boss).

I don't know what I am going to do.. but I know I will be happy wherever I end up GOING!
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 14:15
bewakoof wrote:
Its a public university and has its limitations..

bewakoof, great post, kudos! I'll also put this in the Vault.

Second, Haas and Anderson both have gotten the UC Regents to pass some bill that allows them to manage their own money and fundraising, therefore they will become more like Darden and Ross, which are pretty much operating like private schools anyway. Both schools (UCLA and Haas) will benefit from that decision.

FYI - focused on Haas, but according to the admissions director, it affects Anderson equally:

Third, you really can't go wrong with either school, which is a great position to be in! =)

Finally, even with your experiences with future Haas students, you would have enjoyed yourself at the bars till they close at the Haas Admit weekend

but yeah, I think you'll just have to go where your heart lies, and where you believe will make it "easiest" for you to get to your eventual goals. If you're a risk taker, UCLA all the way.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 15:46
Here...
http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/mba/daytime/e ... mdean.html

Bewakoof..I have a similar decision to make, only that my goals are different and there is no money involved with either school

I don't think that there is any "risk" with either school. Just because UCLA is a public school does not impact its placement capabilities. We all know UCLA almost rules LA..... I live there and trust me it does. If you want a banking job in LA/SF you can be sure of getting it.

I've spoken to alums from both schools and gathered that both schools tend to be equally known/unknown outside the US.
The H/S/W/K's of the world enjoy a more global reputation.

Going by your analysis...I think that you'd be better served by UCLA mainly because UCLA's strengths tie into your goals very well.

ryguy904 wrote:
Very educational post. Curious, and perhaps aau can chime in as well, why the Duke employment stats looked horrific in the recent US News rankings if the school "goes out of its way to get you a job"...?

Cheers-
RG
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 17:50
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Bewakoof, if your interested in post-mba career in Hong Kong, then keep in touch. I'll be at HKUST so will be there and will be networking extensively. I already have a contact in an IB in HK . PM me if you want more details.

I'm not interested in going into finance so its not competition for me.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 20:55
Great post to the OP. And I see a lot of positive post and even networking going on in GMATclub.

Really glad i found this forum.

Good luck, I am from LA and I must say, UCLA is a really nice school!
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  15 Apr 2008, 21:39
so what does toga have to share regarding UCLA's vs Duke's brand recognition in HK/SEA?
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 06:17
togafoot wrote:
Bewakoof, if your interested in post-mba career in Hong Kong, then keep in touch. I'll be at HKUST so will be there and will be networking extensively. I already have a contact in an IB in HK . PM me if you want more details.

I'm not interested in going into finance so its not competition for me.

thanks man!! definitely keep in touch.. Do you have fbook?
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 06:24
kk.iyer wrote:
Here...
http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/mba/daytime/e ... mdean.html

Bewakoof..I have a similar decision to make, only that my goals are different and there is no money involved with either school

I don't think that there is any "risk" with either school. Just because UCLA is a public school does not impact its placement capabilities. We all know UCLA almost rules LA..... I live there and trust me it does. If you want a banking job in LA/SF you can be sure of getting it.

I've spoken to alums from both schools and gathered that both schools tend to be equally known/unknown outside the US.
The H/S/W/K's of the world enjoy a more global reputation.

Going by your analysis...I think that you'd be better served by UCLA mainly because UCLA's strengths tie into your goals very well.

ryguy904 wrote:
Very educational post. Curious, and perhaps aau can chime in as well, why the Duke employment stats looked horrific in the recent US News rankings if the school "goes out of its way to get you a job"...?

Cheers-
RG

Yes.. I think I would be better served at UCLA too. I have no background in Finance and for me to break into the field, I would need extreme networking, and lot of help. Duke's first year seems to be very happy with second years with all the help they got. Sometimes, I feel may be for me a tighter knit community is what is needed but then again UCLA's strength is in Finance so I can't go wrong.

As far as risks are concerned: I was talking to the Career services in both the schools and it seems like Duke plans well for its Int'l students so that they can get H1 B on time, whereas UCLA is all over. UCLA career services wasn't up to date with info while Duke's career services were planning to get Int'l students their degree earlier so that they qualify for H1B lottery, the year they graduate. Small things like these made me feel like DUke is more prepared and students are more secured! Again, UCLA has good Int'l population and their employment report says 97% employment 3 months after graduation, so they must do thing RIGHT.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 06:38
hi, all. good post, bewakoof.

One challenge for us is that the rankings are about placements by graduation and within 3 months of graduation. Our graduation is in the first week of May, compared to later in June for some schools. In other words, those other graduates have more time to find jobs. I don't know how much of a difference it would make - I don't have access to that data - but I'd be interested to see.

Also, we have a very well-blended set of industries students go into: marketing, finance, and consulting are all about equal, but then there are big numbers in health care and nonprofit and the like. This pushes out the recruiting timeline, and brings down the average salary. (As does placing a large number of students in the south.)

I think a more fundamental issue is our decision to add a section during a severe downturn in MBA applicants. We had to let in another ~120 people during a year when the applications were down a lot. Our selectivity is only finally beginning to recover.

We'll see what happens. It's funny where I sit - the rankings matter when you're not in, but much less so when you are. Will BCG and McK and Citi and J&J stop recruiting here suddenly? No, they won't. And the reason I came to Duke is some of what lowers our rankings: I love the emphasis on social enterprise, health care, general management, etc. I can't believe how truly valuable it is to have students from a variety of industries and from all over the country. Does it mean our ending salaries are lower? Yes. Does it mean some of my classmates are just starting to secure internships in the nonprofit world, with PE, with VC? Yup. And I wouldn't change that for anything.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 07:28
but aau.. we never discussed rankings in this thread..

from my perspective.. Hjort's cluster rankings are the best..
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 08:33
bewakoof wrote:
but aau.. we never discussed rankings in this thread..

from my perspective.. Hjort's cluster rankings are the best..

I agree with you that Hjort's cluster system makes the most sense, and is also the most realistic.

But my response was actually prompted by RG's question above:

ryguy904 wrote:
Very educational post. Curious, and perhaps aau can chime in as well, why the Duke employment stats looked horrific in the recent US News rankings if the school "goes out of its way to get you a job"...?
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 09:21
as someone that attended A-Days II, I think I know who bewakoof is =) Good luck in your decision
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 09:38
aaudetat wrote:
One challenge for us is that the rankings are about placements by graduation and within 3 months of graduation. Our graduation is in the first week of May, compared to later in June for some schools. In other words, those other graduates have more time to find jobs. I don't know how much of a difference it would make - I don't have access to that data - but I'd be interested to see.

We'll see what happens. It's funny where I sit - the rankings matter when you're not in, but much less so when you are. Will BCG and McK and Citi and J&J stop recruiting here suddenly? No, they won't. And the reason I came to Duke is some of what lowers our rankings: I love the emphasis on social enterprise, health care, general management, etc. I can't believe how truly valuable it is to have students from a variety of industries and from all over the country. Does it mean our ending salaries are lower? Yes. Does it mean some of my classmates are just starting to secure internships in the nonprofit world, with PE, with VC? Yup. And I wouldn't change that for anything.

well said Aau, I definitely need to meet you sometime, we think very alike.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 11:15
socalconsult wrote:
as someone that attended A-Days II, I think I know who bewakoof is =) Good luck in your decision

hmmmmmmmm.... so you are one of the current students.. You have to reveal your name now.. I am very very curious..
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 15:26
bewakoof wrote:
socalconsult wrote:
as someone that attended A-Days II, I think I know who bewakoof is =) Good luck in your decision

hmmmmmmmm.... so you are one of the current students.. You have to reveal your name now.. I am very very curious..

I know what he did last summer
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 20:41
kk.iyer wrote:
so what does toga have to share regarding UCLA's vs Duke's brand recognition in HK/SEA?

To be frank, I don't work in a traditional MBA industry, and when I was working in the UK, MBA's were not that common or deemed necessary. Most of my friends don't even know what an MBA is and don't care, that also includes the friends in Japan. The only people I know who are MBA aware are the recruitment consultants I play football with, because they are either Finance recruiters or American.

Before October last year, I'd never ever heard of Duke. UCLA i'd hear about, only via sports channels. In fact I would guess most of the people i Know back home in the UK and in Japan have probably never heard of Duke.

One thing about talking on this forum is that everyone here knows all about B-schools, their perceived status and advantages, so we are mostly discussing things from a common base knowledge. Once I go outside of this forum, most people i talk to don't care at all, have no interest, and a lot of these 'brand' name schools, have no brand outside of the post-MBA recruitment industries. I talked to my brother about it (he's a senior manager at one of the largest mobile phone network operators) and he has not heard of most of the schools.

In a nutshell, I have no idea, because I don't work in a traditional MBA Grad huntind industry.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  16 Apr 2008, 22:54
2
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Thanx toga...that just helped corroborate what I gathered from my research about these schools over the last few days.
I've realized, that very few schools truly pull their weight outside of their home grounds; and those are the truly global brands.
I must admit even I hadn't heard of many of the top schools I ended up applying to until I started my research.
A few M7 schools I had heard of but not all.
togafoot wrote:
One thing about talking on this forum is that everyone here knows all about B-schools, their perceived status and advantages, so we are mostly discussing things from a common base knowledge. Once I go outside of this forum, most people i talk to don't care at all, have no interest, and a lot of these 'brand' name schools, have no brand outside of the post-MBA recruitment industries.

Also of mention is probably the fact that the university name might often times ring a bell but not the actual B-school name.

I am sure many people out there know UCLA but how many know Anderson is its MBA program? Same with Duke...how many actually know "Fuqua"? For these schools the University's brand is better known...

On similar lines..think about how people would remember..H/S/W/K
Wharton is a bigger name in the MBA world than...U Penn
Kellogg is a bigger name than is Northwestern

I think you'd see where I am going with this...

At the end of the day, I also think the brand-value for any school is relative to its location.
Where I grew up (India), IIM grads are considered to be best of the breed and draw probably the best salaries for that geography. The IIM brand can do wonders back there and may be parts of SEA. But here....?

The same would hold good for all geographies with local schools enjoying a distinct advantage over the others.
True global brands...i'd think, are just a handful.

All that said...each of the Elite schools is an excellent choice one cannot go wrong with. But it certainly will help to understand and accept that not many schools enjoy the global recognition that one would want them to...

My two cents...discussions are welcome...
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  17 Apr 2008, 19:49
kk.iyer wrote:
Thanx toga...that just helped corroborate what I gathered from my research about these schools over the last few days.
I've realized, that very few schools truly pull their weight outside of their home grounds; and those are the truly global brands.
I must admit even I hadn't heard of many of the top schools I ended up applying to until I started my research.
A few M7 schools I had heard of but not all.
togafoot wrote:
One thing about talking on this forum is that everyone here knows all about B-schools, their perceived status and advantages, so we are mostly discussing things from a common base knowledge. Once I go outside of this forum, most people i talk to don't care at all, have no interest, and a lot of these 'brand' name schools, have no brand outside of the post-MBA recruitment industries.

Also of mention is probably the fact that the university name might often times ring a bell but not the actual B-school name.

I am sure many people out there know UCLA but how many know Anderson is its MBA program? Same with Duke...how many actually know "Fuqua"? For these schools the University's brand is better known...

On similar lines..think about how people would remember..H/S/W/K
Wharton is a bigger name in the MBA world than...U Penn
Kellogg is a bigger name than is Northwestern

I think you'd see where I am going with this...

At the end of the day, I also think the brand-value for any school is relative to its location.
Where I grew up (India), IIM grads are considered to be best of the breed and draw probably the best salaries for that geography. The IIM brand can do wonders back there and may be parts of SEA. But here....?

The same would hold good for all geographies with local schools enjoying a distinct advantage over the others.
True global brands...i'd think, are just a handful.

All that said...each of the Elite schools is an excellent choice one cannot go wrong with. But it certainly will help to understand and accept that not many schools enjoy the global recognition that one would want them to...

My two cents...discussions are welcome...

Up until a couple of years ago, it was branded as the Anderson Graduate School of Management and not associated with UCLA. So in our case, the problem is actually the opposite direction then how you laid it out.
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Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA.. [#permalink]  17 Apr 2008, 19:49
kryzak wrote:
bewakoof wrote:
socalconsult wrote:
as someone that attended A-Days II, I think I know who bewakoof is =) Good luck in your decision

hmmmmmmmm.... so you are one of the current students.. You have to reveal your name now.. I am very very curious..

I know what he did last summer

I got a stalker
Re: Bewakoof's take on Duke vs UCLA..   [#permalink] 17 Apr 2008, 19:49

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