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Bnet -- Whats that MBA really worth?

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Bnet -- Whats that MBA really worth? [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 10:07
Thought I should bring this to your attention. I know we have discussed these issues before, but I dont think it would hurt to know more.

http://www.bnet.com/2436-13070_23-170575.html

Here is an introduction (copy and pasted here under fair use):

For recruiters and executives, MBAs have long been considered the holy grail of the candidate pool. And for employees, the degree is that traditional ticket to corporate success, promising a bigger salary, fast-track promotions, and professional prestige.

But in the eyes of more and more top management thinkers — many of them from top business schools — the value of the MBA is dropping faster than home prices these days. We dug through all the latest research, interviewed both critics and advocates, and organized our findings. We show you five hard truths about the degree and how to decode the class catalog jargon to tell you what you’ll really be learning for your $60k. On the other side of the interview desk, CEOs and VPs give their candid opinions about when they would — and wouldn’t — hire an MBA.

Update: Jenna Miller, our Back to B-School columnist, rebuts the standard assumptions about an MBA candidate's mercenary motives and advocates for the nonfinancial ROI.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 10:32
A lot of interesting ideas but the statements can very well be applied to any degree (including MBA).

I dont think that I would necessarily say yes to any of those 5 statements as to why an MBA is not worth its value. A lot of discussions have happened on this forum regarding the potential and value of an MBA degree, but one statement from me -

If the authors of the article say an MBA degree is not worth its value, how do they justify the rising number of applications and a greater demand for the degree ascross all job categories in the current market (not only the US)
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 10:41
aviroop wrote:
A lot of interesting ideas but the statements can very well be applied to any degree (including MBA).

I dont think that I would necessarily say yes to any of those 5 statements as to why an MBA is not worth its value. A lot of discussions have happened on this forum regarding the potential and value of an MBA degree, but one statement from me -

If the authors of the article say an MBA degree is not worth its value, how do they justify the rising number of applications and a greater demand for the degree ascross all job categories in the current market (not only the US)


aviroop

It might be a good question to ask them. I am not arguing either way.

Thought these links were interesting too:

What Executives really think of MBAs:
http://www.bnet.com/2403-13070_23-170572.html

The Secret Guide to the MBA Curriculum
http://www.bnet.com/2403-13070_23-170567.html
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 10:52
Thats a great point Avi- but keep in mind that most of the rise in applications has been from international applicants. Take India for example: the compensation for a graduate from IIM is ridiculously high when compared to what an engineer makes. I read somewhere that the avg increase in pay in the US schools is about 35%. I would guess that that figure would be closer to 100% in India. This makes it almost a no-brainer for an Indian engineer to move into management (from an ROI point of view). But only 1000 guys can get such astronomical salaries if they study in India. This leads them to look to the US (I am not saying that is THE only reason for Indian applicants to apply here BUT that is ONE of them - and yes, HBS is better than IIMA).

I am not sure if the job market for MBA's would really slow down in the US. There are some industries such as MC and IB, where the majority of the graduates join after their MBA. These industries seem to require an MBA as a pre-requisite and since they see such a high turnover in those industries, you will find a steady deman for those jobs-maintaining the job market (atleast at the top schools).



aviroop wrote:
A lot of interesting ideas but the statements can very well be applied to any degree (including MBA).

I dont think that I would necessarily say yes to any of those 5 statements as to why an MBA is not worth its value. A lot of discussions have happened on this forum regarding the potential and value of an MBA degree, but one statement from me -

If the authors of the article say an MBA degree is not worth its value, how do they justify the rising number of applications and a greater demand for the degree ascross all job categories in the current market (not only the US)
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 11:15
I guess it really depends on why you're getting an MBA. If you're getting it just to get promotions or be on the fast track, then you may need to reevaluate. If you're getting it to build connections and open up future careers that you'll be happy and passionate about, then it doesn't really matter what the pay/promotion potential of an MBA is.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 11:35
kryzak wrote:
I guess it really depends on why you're getting an MBA. If you're getting it just to get promotions or be on the fast track, then you may need to reevaluate. If you're getting it to build connections and open up future careers that you'll be happy and passionate about, then it doesn't really matter what the pay/promotion potential of an MBA is.


Completely agree. I think there are a lot of career switchers in bschool, as am I, and for us, it's priceless.

Some of these authors seem to think that we are going to bschool to be the next Bill Gates or punch a ticket to CEO-land. That's, of course, clearly not the case.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 11:48
I think another issue they failed to think about, are the people who decide to get an MBA because they hate what they do. Career switching is a common reason up there with money as popular reasons to go. I know several other engineers who hate their jobs and decide that an MBA will lead to a happier career without fully understanding what it entails. I would bet a fair amount of people who only go because they hate their jobs and want to do anything else are going to be dissappointed with their next job too.

Hating your job may kick you into school but even then you may hate your jobs post MBA even more. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 12:20
river,
the grass is never greener on the other side. Praet, I didnt mean to question you about this article. Just voicing my opinion. Thanks for the link
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 12:49
Sorry, I've got to post this

From one of the links:

Quote:
“Nobody would argue that it makes more sense to hire a college dropout and former disk jockey like myself rather than a Harvard MBA. However, the high-tech world is full of college dropouts that have made good. And among that group which includes [Bill] Gates, [Larry] Ellison, [Michael] Dell and [Steve] Jobs I am the underachiever. If you look at what we hold in common, it’s that we’re all too fiercely entrepreneurial to have the patience for going to classes and getting certified. There are just some people who are driven to start a business, and those are the ones who aren’t likely to spend time earning an MBA.”

— Mitchell Kertzman, venture capitalist at Hummer Winblad and former CEO of Sybase, Powersoft, and Liberate Technologies.


I like such articles and their resulting discussions. I believe that such things help me keep a clear "Why MBA" in my mind .. and also help me plan for a "Without MBA" future-plan (If needed).
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 13:57
mNeo wrote:
Sorry, I've got to post this

From one of the links:

Quote:
“Nobody would argue that it makes more sense to hire a college dropout and former disk jockey like myself rather than a Harvard MBA. However, the high-tech world is full of college dropouts that have made good. And among that group which includes [Bill] Gates, [Larry] Ellison, [Michael] Dell and [Steve] Jobs I am the underachiever. If you look at what we hold in common, it’s that we’re all too fiercely entrepreneurial to have the patience for going to classes and getting certified. There are just some people who are driven to start a business, and those are the ones who aren’t likely to spend time earning an MBA.”

— Mitchell Kertzman, venture capitalist at Hummer Winblad and former CEO of Sybase, Powersoft, and Liberate Technologies.


I like such articles and their resulting discussions. I believe that such things help me keep a clear "Why MBA" in my mind .. and also help me plan for a "Without MBA" future-plan (If needed).


I personally love how they find the people who don't have MBAs or even college and do amazing things but start a list of people with MBAs who have gone on to do great things and percentage wise your chances are going to be hundreds of times better with an MBA. What about all the people who serve burgers, pump gas, work at menial jobs they hate for minimum wage because they didn't go to college. An education is not going to make you great but it sure will give you an advantage. Even startups hire experienced people generally with degrees as senior managers, a VC may invest in your idea but they are going to want someone with a clue to run it.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 14:22
same sentiments about every time they bring up Bill Gates and Michael Dell. That's like saying the b-schools mention their Olympic medalist or Mt Everest climber admit, and we assume that everyone at that b-school is an Olympic medalist or an expert climber.

I love these quotes from the article:

Quote:
if [an MBA] is something that you’re doing because you want to make more money, rather than because you’re really interested in how businesses function, you’ll probably be disappointed


Quote:
Yale and Stanford implemented sweeping changes to their MBA curricula, allowing students to tailor their coursework based on previous work experience and career goals.

Quote:
MBAs can be at the top of the tree looking out over the strategic horizon while the real workers in the organization are at the trunk of the tree firing up the chainsaw.”

— Ken Evans, former VP of sales and marketing at Waste Management, currently a management consultant at CP Strategies.


I'm wondering which schools they're doing this study on. In all the schools I've visited, they all have some hands-on internships, not just in the summer, but during the year, where you help companies with projects relating to your career choice to get real world experience. I'm surprised they don't mention those at all, as that is one of the major factors I looked at to pick schools (getting real-world experience while at the school).
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 15:31
+1

Why cant MBA articles talk about some other folks besides Michael Dell/Bill Gates?

This is like using the dreaded "wholistic/holistic" word. We should simply ban words that sound like grenades going off in our ears.

My list of words to ban.

1. The evil top contender - wholistic/holistic
2. Oprah/B Gates

Please contribute generously to this list. Dont hold your feelings back.
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 [#permalink] New post 23 Oct 2007, 20:10
mNeo wrote:
Sorry, I've got to post this

From one of the links:

Quote:
“Nobody would argue that it makes more sense to hire a college dropout and former disk jockey like myself rather than a Harvard MBA. However, the high-tech world is full of college dropouts that have made good. And among that group which includes [Bill] Gates, [Larry] Ellison, [Michael] Dell and [Steve] Jobs I am the underachiever. If you look at what we hold in common, it’s that we’re all too fiercely entrepreneurial to have the patience for going to classes and getting certified. There are just some people who are driven to start a business, and those are the ones who aren’t likely to spend time earning an MBA.”

— Mitchell Kertzman, venture capitalist at Hummer Winblad and former CEO of Sybase, Powersoft, and Liberate Technologies.


I like such articles and their resulting discussions. I believe that such things help me keep a clear "Why MBA" in my mind .. and also help me plan for a "Without MBA" future-plan (If needed).


I like that these kinds of posts support my Why MBA? position. I'm no Bill Gates, so I need as much help as I can get, i.e.: an HBS MBA.

L.
  [#permalink] 23 Oct 2007, 20:10
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