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Bunch of interesting stats gleaned from Admissions411.com

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Bunch of interesting stats gleaned from Admissions411.com [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 01:56
I visited Admissions411.com after seeing many of you refer to it. You guys know I can't resist some good statistics - I'm freaky deaky like that. Some of the numbers are astounding. Check these out (with the caveat they are self-reported, and admitted people probably report at a higher rate, etc.)

First of all, for those of you that believe there's some magical GMAT hurdle at 700 or something and that all scores above that are the same. That is DEFINITELY not the case at some of the 8-16 ranked schools. Check these out (Stats from last year because results aren't in for this year):
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yale R1 & R2
740+: 18 Accepted/7 Ding/6 Unknown ~ 58%
700-730: 17 Accepted/13 Ding/20 Unknown ~ 34%
(I will assume that a large percentage of Unknowns are Dings that didn't come back to report)

Duke R1 & R2
740+: 36 Accepted/8 Ding/4 Unknown ~ 75%
700-730: 36 Accepted/19 Ding/11 Unknown ~ 54.5%

Cornell - Sample size too small, only 3-4 people per round 740+.

Berkeley R1 & R2
740+: 15A/19D/12U ~ 32.6%
700-730: 18A/31D/13U ~ 29%

Darden - Sample too small

UCLA R1 & R2
740+: 20A/2D/3U ~ 80% !!
700-730: 21A/11D/14U ~ 45.6%

Let's just stop here and look at UCLA and Berkeley - for years they ran neck and neck but things have changed. UCLA accepted 20/25 with 740+ last year (of those reporting). I attribute this to one school (UCLA) that buys a few high scores, and another school (Berkeley) that can afford to be selective.

Tuck: R1 & R2
740+: 11A/10D/6U ~ 40.7%
700-730: 14A/18D/10U ~ 33.3%

NYU R1 & R2
740+: 16A/6D/11U ~ 48.4%
700-730: 22A/12D/22U ~ 39.2%

So, for anyone with lingering doubts, I think it's pretty clear that there is additional benefit the further you move up in GMAT score, and as far as I can tell, there is no magic barrier of drastic diminishing returns.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok class (hehe), let's move on to another subject that is a favorite here at GMATclub - GMAT scores as they relate to demographics. Now, this is going to be scary for some of you so brace yourselves (again, these scores are self-reported, etc.)

Breakdown of 740+ GMAT scores at Chicago:
Class of 2009 R1: 7 US/7 India/1 Australia/1 Canada
2008 R1 & R2: 41 US/11 India/1 Russia/3 China/4 Korea/3 Singapore/4 Other

Wharton 760+ (too much counting from 740):
2009 R1: 20 US/8 India/1UK
2008 R1 & R2: 67 US/19 India/2 China/1 France/4 Korea/3 Singapore/7 Other

Ok, I go to Kellogg but I'm tired of counting - d@mn that Indian demographic must be tough to crack with all those high scores. Here's something else that will blow your mind. Last year of the 222 Kellogg applicants that reported GMATs of 720 or below, only 10 were Indian and none of those reported a score below 700! Also, none of the 10 reported an admit (6 ding/4unknown). Let me repeat that; no Indian that scored 720 or lower reported an admit to Kellogg last year (in R1 or R2). Yeowie!
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Ok, next I wanted to check out the validity of the 80/80 rule at Wharton. So the following are GMAT scores where either Q or V is below the 80th percentile, and the result (scores above 700 only):

Round 1
79Q/99V/760 - Ding
79Q/99V/740 - Ding
70Q/99V/720 - Ding
73Q/99V/720 - Ding
73Q/99V/720 - Ding (this is not a repeat of the line above)
79Q/93V/710 - Ding
79Q/93V/710 - Ding (not a repeat)
73Q/96V/710 - Unknown
99Q/72V/710 - Ding
73Q/97V/710 - Ding
70Q/97V/710 - Ding
71Q/99V/710 - Unknown
71Q/99V/710 - Unknown (not a repeat)
57Q/99V/700 - Ding (is that 57Q a typo? I think they mean 77Q or something)
77Q/91V/700 - Accepted!
96Q/70V/700 - Unknown
95Q/67V/700 - Unknown
99Q/63V/700 - Unknown
95Q/77V/700 - Unknown

Man, they take this 80/80 rule thing seriously! The only person admitted without 80/80 got 77Q/91V which is pretty darn close. Balance matters a lot at Wharton, apparently. In R2, only 3/31 made it (79/99/730, 73/97/720 and 73/96/700).
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And finally, there has been a lot of discussion about whether 650-680 GMATs give you a fighting chance at top schools (I think most people understand that scores below 650, the cutoff for the middle 80%, are longshots), so the following are stats for scores of 650-680:

Wharton R1 - 3/13 admitted
Wharton R2 - 1/31 (a Mexian National)

Columbia ED - 3/10
Columbia RD - 3/12

MIT R1 - 4/14
MIT R2 - 3/21

Stanford R1 - 0/9
Stanford R2 - 1/20

Harvard R1 - 0/13
Harvard R2 - 6/27

Cornell R1 - 1/3
Cornell R2 - 3/6

So, there you have it. We can probably assume that the bulk of the people admitted in this score range were under-represented minorities. Also, remember that these are just the self-reported results, and as discussed above, the admit rates are likely higher because of self-reporting.

Don't ask me how I selected which stats to count. I pretty much went with the flow as I checked out some of the schools. Definitely some other schools I wouldn't mind gathering some more stats on, but I got bored. Maybe some other time.

Last edited by pelihu on 14 Nov 2006, 02:54, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 02:20
Pelihu, thanks for the interesting data analysis.
There are unfortunately too few people from Russia to make any conclusions on the basis of the data from accepted411, but hope remains :)
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 03:32
I've been wanting to do this analysis ever since I saw the site, but I've been far to lazy to type up all the values into excel and run my figures. Thanks for doing it.

I'd also draw your attention to:
http://www.admissions411.com/results.asp

According to that, GSB has a 40% accept rate. That seems high, but when you consider that the vast majority of data points are well into the 700 range, if not the 750 range, then it seems more reasonable to assume this is somewhat in the ballpark.

Now, I'll share what I did get to for GSB... this is totally back of the envelope stuff, but I had to do the math :)

760 1 accept
740 1 ding
730 2 accept
710 2 accept
700 1 accept
650 2 accept
640 2 ding
640 3 accept
610 3 ding

First value is gmat, second is number of alumni recs, and third is accept/ding. Based on these figures, were talking 66% accept. Thats high. What I wonder (for obvious reasons) is whether or not its too high because the sample is small, or if it's right? :)

If we hit R2

770 1 unknown
770 1 unknown
750 2 accept
750 1 unknown
740 1 accept
730 1 unknown
720 1 accept
720 1 ding
720 1 ding
710 1 unknown
680 1 ding
670 3 unknown
650 2 accept
unk 1 accept
unk 2 unknown
unk 3 unknown
unk 3 accept

That's only 35%. Not that high, but if we take R1 and R2 together and toss out anything under the 650 mark - we get a 47% accept rate.

Now just to try and fool myself thats its statisitically valid... lets see the percentages for those with more than 1 alumni rec and a score of 650 or above. Well, its high. Nearing 85%. The sample size though is tiny, so it's not that helpful. :(

Interesting anyway, especially if, like me you have alumni recs.


And anyone that enjoys stats, this is fun to read: http://www.admissions411.com/bboard/top ... OPIC_ID=67

I especially like the guy who says "you are either a trolling or a fool". Hah.
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 07:31
those are great stats...I think I will be adding UCLA
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 10:00
I think all the numbers will turn out high because of the nature of the site. I think people that use the site are at the very least very interested and probably fairly well prepared for the application process. It probably doesn't include any flaky people that spent 20 minutes total writing essays. But I think the numbers are relevant when compared to other numbers at different data points from the same site. I don't think it's possible to get an overall "admit chance" from the voluntary reports on this site, but I think you can get an idea of how one score relates to another, or how one demographic relates to another, etc.
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 13:23
Okay...I am getting discouraged here..

We have to remember that those who get high GMAT scores are usually the individuals who are from top undergraduate schools to begin with and those who have great work experience.

Thus, it is obvious that people with higher GMAT has a better chance.
Not necessary, it is just because they have 20+ or 30+ more points on the GMAT.
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 13:49
adding to discussion...

For HBS, of the 18 people who have received an interview...
-the average GMAT is 731 and the average GPA is 3.60.
-83% are from USA
-43% are from consulting
-71% are from consulting or banking

- Using my metrics, (GPAx200+GMAT), the lowest stats to garner an interview is 690 and 3.4
- Only 22% scored below 720
- Only 29% have lower than 3.6 GPA

HBS is probably half way through its interview invite process... it seems that H is only inviting the traditional consultant and bankers for now before it goes international or pick out a select view who has an interesting background.
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 [#permalink] New post 14 Nov 2006, 14:37
died4me wrote:
Okay...I am getting discouraged here..

We have to remember that those who get high GMAT scores are usually the individuals who are from top undergraduate schools to begin with and those who have great work experience.

Thus, it is obvious that people with higher GMAT has a better chance.
Not necessary, it is just because they have 20+ or 30+ more points on the GMAT.



It's true that the people from the best schools will probably tend to get better scores on the GMAT - there's a reason they are at the best schools! You can't really take these numbers as a direct indication of anything. I do think they can be useful for comparison purposes. For example, comparing scores in different ranges, or comparing metrics between schools.

And of course, we're looking at certain scores and demographics separately from all other factors - which probably doesn't work well. Still, it's silly to just ignore obvious trends.

Regarding those HBS stats - I'm not surprised that 71% are from consulting or banking. These places are filled with students that have been planning for 3-5 years for the day they could apply to business school . I wish I would have known 3 years ago I would be applying to business school - I could have done a lot of things to improve my profile. Also, jobs at the best consulting firms and banks tend to be highly competitive, so there's probably strong correlation with high GPAs, quality undergrad schools and just in general very capable people. After taking a close look at what HBS looks for, I dropped them from my list several week ago.
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 [#permalink] New post 15 Nov 2006, 06:25
Those who applied for Kellogg in R1 might also find it interesting that last year the AdCom started releasing admit notices as early as mid-December.
  [#permalink] 15 Nov 2006, 06:25
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Bunch of interesting stats gleaned from Admissions411.com

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