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Re: Calling All Fall 2011 Yale SOM Applicants [#permalink]
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shaselai wrote:
basically no hope. the very few implied spots probably for special people.... oh well


As there's no hope I suppose there's no need to post in this thread anymore...
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Re: Calling All Fall 2011 Yale SOM Applicants [#permalink]
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I'm going to opine on this topic for a second:

While I'm picking on Yale because it is the only school I've applied to that follows this process, I believe the following applies to other schools as well. I'll preface this with a quote from the NY Times article "Application Inflation" written by Eric Hoover on 5 Nov. 2010.

"Such announcements tell a story in which colleges get better — and students get more amazing — every year. In reality, the narrative is far more complex, and the implications far less sunny for students as well as colleges caught up in the cruel cycle of selectivity.

To some degree, the increases are inevitable: the college-bound population has grown, and so, too, has the number of applications students file, thanks in part to online technology. But wherever it is raining applications, colleges have helped seed the clouds — by recruiting widely and aggressively for ever more applicants.

Admissions officers are chasing not so much a more perfect student as a more perfect class. In a given year, this elusive ideal might require more violinists, goalies, aspiring engineers or students who can pay the full cost of attendance. Colleges everywhere want more minority students, more out-of-state students and more students from overseas. The pursuit reveals the duality of the modern college. It’s a place that serves the public interest, and a business with a bottom line.

Applications are, of course, a proxy for popularity and metric of merit. Such is the allure of exclusivity, and the appeal of simplicity. Measuring quality is difficult; measuring quantity is as easy as counting. The more apps a college receives, and rejects, the more impressive it seems.

As application totals soar, colleges struggle to predict yield — the number of admitted students who actually attend — leading to longer wait lists and other competitive enrollment tactics. Students hedge against the plummeting admissions rates by flooding the system with even more applications."


With that in mind, there seem to be two types of application review processes at this point in time. I'll use Harvard as an example of the first. Harvard sets a date that applicants will hear back about interviews- no interviews, no admission (or waitlist). The date for this is stated clearly on their webpage as November 3rd.

For all of the time an applicant puts into his/her application (plus the relatively expensive fee associated with submission), I find this defined process much more professional and responsible on the part of the school. It not only gives the applicants an idea, early on, of how competitive their application is, but also lets them pursue other options with an early notification date if necessary. Most importantly, it 'releases' applicants who really have no shot at admission, and we know that there are a few thousand of those that likely apply to Harvard in this instance, without dragging them along with any false hope up until the admission deadline.

Now lets get to Yale. Yale has continued to offer hope to all applicants who have not yet been interviewed. We know for a fact that out of the thousands of applications that Yale has recieved, a large percentage will not be receiving an invitation to interview. Yale admissions essentially knows who this group is. But yet, these folks will be dragged along until December, further compounded by the recent "You still have a shot!" email. Honestly, I was perfectly content waiting until December for a decision, but I feel their choice to consistently issue vague statements of where they are in the process actually worsens the situation for applicants. Be clear on where the applicant stands.

The reason for this, in my eyes, is largely due to the push to get more and more applications, and the admissions desire to sculpt a more unique class and increase their yield. While this is reasonable on the part of the school, I feel that it is unfair to a majority of the applicants who they will continue to string along until December.

Cut the ones who are out early. Keep the ones you are still considering. DEFINE your admissions process. But don't send an email like the one yesterday to ALL remaining applicants who have not recieved invitations, because that, Yale, is just false hope.

I assume someone from Yale admissions will read this, and hopefully, somewhat consider the above for next year. And finally, this isn't just a poke at Yale, this is typical across most of the bschool spectrum.
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bizschool2011 wrote:
I'm going to opine on this topic for a second:


The thing you'll have to remember is that last year, HBS had the same process as everyone else. They released a wave of invites early on, then a slow trickle - all the way down to December 15, which was D-day for everyone (for those interviewed and those still waiting for a slot) - calling-all-hbs-fall-2010-candidates-78704-420.html#p648494

The fact that they changed it this year is great, and shows that other schools can probably change it too. However, keep in mind that much of this is dependent on the resources available at the school. As much as everyone would love for all 3000 or whatever # of applications to get read in the first few weeks, many times it just can't happen due to numbers. There's only a limited # of people on the adcom, and without hiring more, you're essentially bottlenecking yourself.

Finally, I'm not sure if switching to this model would even help you as an applicant. Unless you're one of the few in the "automatic ding" pile, in all likelihood, you'd probably just receive an email saying you're on the waitlist. At this point, you don't really know much more than you would have under the normal process. Sure, you know you're not outright dinged, but that doesn't mean you will automatically be able to translate that into an invite anyway.

The point is that throughout the whole application process, patience is required. That's just the way the process is set up.
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Re: Calling All Fall 2011 Yale SOM Applicants [#permalink]
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Just to say that I had an interview last week and had a very similar experience to others on this thread.

My interviewer was exceptionally friendly and welcoming, and the questions were quite standard, along the lines of talking through my resume, describing short/long-term goals, how an MBA fits in, why now, why Yale SOM. I had prepared for some behavioral questions, just in case, but none were asked.

The time went really quickly and we were really pushed to squeeze it all in. I think she had some unanswered questions at the end of it (I drifted off topic a little when asked about one of my favorite things... should have been more focused I think but was maybe lulled into a false sense of security to some extent), and my questions for her had to be asked on the walk back to the admissions office.

All in all, I genuinely enjoyed it and felt like she'd understood a reasonable amount about who I am and why I'm interested in SOM in a very short time. The general feel was very much 'get to know you' rather than challenge/try to catch you out, which I appreciated, and I sense that they really are just looking to size up your personal skills and get a general sense of who you are as a person and how you might fit into the community, and then match that up with the more specific/in-depth stuff from other parts of your application.

The day's activities also went well enough, everyone else on the tour that day (this was my second time) was interviewing too, so I didn't feel out of place suited up and the interviewers themselves were also quite smartly dressed which was nice to see.

Overall, a positive day that enhanced my perception of SOM (although I was a big fan already). Whether it enhanced my application too, we'll just have to wait and see...!
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nink wrote:
If you are interested in YSOM, just stay focused and do everything you can (on your end) to show your interest. Keep in touch with the WL manager. They do send out interviews to WL applicants after R2. They did so in the past. Just don't give up yet. (This applies to your other schools). Good luck


Also, from this point and on, and this invitation is only for WL applicants only - if you receive interview invitation, PM me. I will prep you personally.
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just got the call, im in too
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anudada wrote:
Folks who attended Welcome Weekend, how was it? Can you share your experience here for the benefit of those who could not attend?


anudada - Welcome Weekend was good fun. Personal highlights included hearing Dean Snyder discuss his vision for SOM, Ivan Kerbel's overview of the CDO, the break-out career panel (I attended the finance session) and the Friday night event at GPSCY. There were cameras at every session, so I would imagine that they will post videos on the admitted students website over the coming days (hopefully with the exception of the antics at GPSCY - that footage would likely put an early end to a few careers!). All in all, a well-organized and informative event and a very impressive incoming class.

In case anyone is keeping track, I have decided to matriculate. I've made this very official by 1) adding blue font to my profile and 2) buying a Yale hoodie from the campus shop, so I guess there's no turning back now...
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justreallygood wrote:
Hi shadowsjc and nink,

What resources and opportunities are available to SOM students? (specifically in marketing/sales in the consumer/retail industry)

My personal preference is a highly collaborative and supportive culture. How would you describe the Yale SOM culture?

How would you describe your relationships with fellow students, faculty, and alumni at SOM? Are these enduring relationships?

How has the international experience benefited you the most and why?

In your experience, are there any misconceptions about Yale?


Culture-wise, it sounds like SOM would be an ideal fit. Keep in mind that the class size is one of the smallest of any of the top schools. In just the week and a half of orientation so far, I feel like I've gotten to know a huge percentage of my classmates already, and this is without classes having even started yet.

Speaking about alumni, I have already been in touch with several SOM alums working at various financial institutions, and they have been very helpful. However, it doesn't end there; in fact, I was also informed about an event that attracted Yale alumni from other branches of the school as well, including undergrad, medicine, law, etc. I attended this event and really clicked with many who were present. It's important to note since people are oftentimes put off by the relatively small number of SOM alumni, but they discount the much larger Yale alumni base.

In addition to my previous point about the small alumni size, another common misconception about the school is that it is not as "good" with finance type jobs. In my limited time, I've found this to be incorrect. There are plenty of grads and students working at big banks, either as associates or interns. In fact, a number of my classmates have already received internship offers at bulge bracket banks, even though classes have yet to start. These connections were made possible by the alumni network, the value and experience of the individual student, and also the value of the school's brand.
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4 cohorts of about 60 students each. you have all your core courses with the same bunch. you also have study groups of about 8-9 people who meet informally as needed to go over hw, readings, etc.
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Actually, Yale's recommendation questions/instructions seem a lot mellower than for most top schools:

Recommendation Letter
Please write a one- to two-page assessment of the applicant that addresses his or her personal qualities, strengths and weaknesses, and potential for achievement. We are looking for your candid and accurate assessment of the applicant’s potential to be a successful leader and what specific traits the applicant possesses that evidence this potential.
• Please describe your relationship to the applicant and the nature and frequency of your interactions.
• Please be as specific as possible and use concrete examples whenever possible.
• Do not incorporate anything drafted by the candidate in your recommendation or have the candidate submit the recommendation on your behalf.
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skahuh wrote:
nink: I understand that in the second year you can take as many courses as you want from the law school, school of forestry and env. studies, or from other colleges outside of the SOM. Is that right? And how have you managed in the law school courses? Do you feel ill prepared for the legal language and fundamentals, or are you able to do well?


Electives can be taken in the Spring semester of your 1st year. Yes, scheduling it will be an issue but you can take electives from any of the other graduate schools @ Yale. Another fantastic thing about Yale is that, due to its small, and tight/knit community and class size, you have relatively easier time registering for classes compared to other top bschools with huge class size. I would say, except for few popular courses w popular professors, I was able to register in the courses that I wanted to.

Law school is a big challenge. You don't get the preparation of L1 curriculum that law school kids get (including legal writing classes, etc) but it's not impossible. Once you learn how to approach law school classes (learn to read the codes, cases, rulings, and other primary sources - how to research them and etc), it isn't impossible. I would say it can be dull compared to bschool classes, but that's just the nature of the law school. On top of that, competition is fierce in the law school so if you are competitive (in terms of academics), you might find yourself in the law library, preparing for the next class so you can debate with the law school kids. Besides, people are friendly in general.
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nink wrote:
Quote:

Quote:
How does the SOM view MBAMath? Is it good for an additional quant. profile?
Not even sure what that is. (just looked at their website.....god no..you don't need it)



Hi guys - i am a current student too .. i actually did do the MBAMath thing and I got in. Hard to tell if that had any impact on the decision though. I would suggest a course in a college / university. Its not a terribly useful course to be honest from a learning math point of view but I used it to show that I could handle level mba level math work since my quant percentile was low on the gmat.
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brainhurt wrote:
Does anyone have a sense of how important a campus visit is at YSOM for admissions purposes? Obviously visiting campus will help write a stronger "Why YSOM" essay, but I'm wondering if not visiting will be a negative in the admissions decision. For example, Sloan and Stern seem to emphasize the importance of visiting campus, whereas HBS has explicitly said it has no bearing on the admissions decision.


I waited till I interviewed to visit campus. Not sure how it's looked at in general. You can certainly write the Why Yale essay without visiting and get in. If you are in the NE though, I would imagine (I have no real inside info on this) its not going to be viewed favorbly if you dont make the trip for your interview if you have never been to campus.
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ThomasD wrote:
Anyone else noticed that Yale seems to look at your two highest GMAT, GRE or whatever scores. When you click on review, there is room for the scores from 2 attempts, so I take it unlike many B-schools that claim to only care about the highest score, Yale must look at both, right?


Here's what they say: "We see and consider all the scores you have received as we review your application, although we credit the highest score you achieved. We do not average scores. "
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Dartmouth and Yale are polar opposites when it comes to setting. Dartmouth is well landscaped and has lots of grassy areas, but from the several times I've been there, I've gotten the impression that Hanover, NH is pretty much a college town that only consists of Dartmouth College. In fact, it's probably a good 2 hour drive from Hanover to a city of any size. Yale doesn't have many green spaces, but it has great architecture, feels like a big city in some areas, yet you can find secluded places on campus if you need to get away from it.
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Reapp Interview Question:

I saw the "interview complete" on my app status, but the date was from last year's application. I called the admissions office to get a bit more clarity and they were very pleasant. According to them, they invite reapps to interview only if they believed something materially changed that would affect that previous interview. Other than that, they just use last year's interview in the evaluation process.

So, take that for what it's worth. I tend to read into everything, so I guess the follow-up question is, if you are not invited to re-interview does that mean they don't believe the application changes were material? Consequently, does that mean I have not proved my case?

On the contrary, if not getting another interview is NOT indicative of a decision one way or the other, then it's a looooooooooong wait for decision with no indication of where you stand. Would be interested to hear the group's thoughts.

Would also be interested to hear the answer to the earlier question, if anyone reapplied and was admitted without a second interview?

Ok, the MBA app logic tree ends here. . .cheers! Good luck all!
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Interesting tidbit of information in the latest Yale SOM Admissions Newsletter. According to the article, dated 10/21, "Right now, for example, we have extended roughly a third of the invitations planned for the first round, so there are many still to come."

EDIT: The article is now updated to today's date, and reflects that HALF of the invitations went out, not a third.

Encouraging news for all who have not yet received invites. If you want to read the rest of the newsletter:

https://mba.yale.edu/newsletter/newslett ... p#article1

Originally posted by cwhs on 25 Oct 2010, 10:42.
Last edited by cwhs on 25 Oct 2010, 13:30, edited 1 time in total.
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