HBS 2012 - Calling All Applicants

Sandy,

Took the GRE before it changed format and got a 730 Quant and 500 Verbal, I am an international student. Do you think this is a bad score or do they try and convert the GRE scores to GMAT scores? The GRE and GMAT are sort of different. I am inclined to apply for engineering master's and now that I can also apply for an MBA with the GRE I would like to give it a try.

I've been wondering this as well. They took off the "and why you view them as such" portion this year. While I'm sure it needs to be touched on briefly, I wonder if they want to hear more about the actual accomplishment and the "how". Maybe they've had difficulty in recent years understanding the level of involvement the actual applicant played?

Thoughts?

I am in a very similar situation isst80. I'm a scientist working for an R&D company that invents technology for the government and military. Pretty much everything I do is classified TS/SCI. Some of my best stories are from...missions, lets say, a long way from home. (we don't just write on chalkboards, we help our guys use the things we make).

My approach has been this: most accomplishments can be described pretty well without specifics. In addition, go look up exactly what is classified and what isn't for your projects. Often you can describe what you did, as long as you don't say where you did it and who you did it to . But that of course varies a ton by project and organization, just something to consider.

I don't think anyone, MBA consultant or no, who hasn't lived this kind of life can really know how to advise us on this. My gut tells me to be as specific as I can without crossing any lines, and just make it clear on the application why you can't say more. If we do it right it will have just enough mystery to sound epic.

I would contact the schools directly, in many cases, HBS for example, they may have adcoms with a military background and/or with a background involving a security clearance who would be the ones reviewing your app. I'm sure they can advise you or point you to students who've dealt with the same obstacles.

I'll be in for Round 2.

Well, it certainly can never hurt to talk things over with your schools, but I doubt they will have any actionable advice. The rules are the rules, so what else could they say besides "Be as specific as you can and explain why you can't say more." ?

In for HSW R2
Anyone know of a good admissions consultant I can work with? please dont mention HBSgrad I was told by a couple of friends who actually used his service that its really poor and slow

Folks,

I am in a dilemma about a certain situation that I face. I am working in a boutique analytical consulting firm which looks into mortgage delinquencies. As a favour I have also been helping one of my acquaintances in his business which is very different from the daytime work that I do. This acquaintances work is focused on developing solutions for a few focus industries. I have been helping him (for free) in terms of idea generation around his product. I have invested non-trivial amount of effort in this pursuit and feel that I should add this experience to my MBA essays etc.

However I do not have any proof for this except for the acquaintance vouching for my work. Since I helped him for free I do not have any receipt or any monetary proof of helping him out. I am wondering if this will be an impediment in adding this experience to my application since the b-schools mention that they will be validating all what has been written through a third party vendor and I am not sure what sort of proofs will stand their test.

Will it work if I add my acquaintance as a one of my recommenders?

Also can I add it as part of my resume?

Please share your experiences.

Thanks,
FTH

HBS honors five alums Day 1 of classes (attendance req for gala), bios make good set of buzz words for what HBS likes to see, as potential . https://t.co/Lfhv440

It's generally more useful to have a recommendation that can echo parts of your application. For example, if you write about this amazing project you worked on, it'd be great if one of your recommenders was your supervisor (or whoever) on that project and can also say that you did an amazing job. Think what would complement your essays the most!

https://www.hbsadmissionsconsulting.com/ ... art-1.html

But, if you're not comfortable asking that person to write you a rec, it's ok to still write about that amazing project you worked on. The outside firm doesn't read your essays and quiz your recommenders about what you wrote. They validate things like employment dates, titles, salaries, etc. They won't ask for your midterm review!

HBS Admissions Consultant
hbs.consultant@gmail.com
www.hbsadmissionsconsulting.com

I suggest reaching out to AFAA: https://hbs.campusgroups.com/afaa/home/.

More generally, don't get hung up on the details of what you did. The AdCom is looking to see that you've demonstrated leadership, management ability, analytical ability, etc. All of this can be communicated effectively WITHOUT details. In fact, having excessive details, stats, etc will often disrupt the flow of the story and distract the AdCom!!

HBS Admissions Consultant
hbs.consultant@gmail.com
https://www.hbsadmissionsconsulting.com

The AdCom wants to feel that they UNDERSTAND you. It's definitely worth 1-2 sentences on WHY the accomplishment is meaningful to you. It can be as simple as: "I deeply value mentorship because I grew up in a foster home. That's why one of my most cherished accomplishments is staring a mentoring program in college." Simple. Done. If you don't have room, figure out a way to cut the junk.

HBS Admissions Consultant
hbs.consultant@gmail.com
https://www.hbsadmissionsconsulting.com

Thanks for the posts hbs guru/grad.
Does the setback have to be your fault or mistake like sandy says in his interview? Looks like it can be external setback without your mistake.
Should one use new leadership examples in why-mba essay?

Intervew w. Dee Leopold in Business Week, "soft ball city" even by BW's touchless car wash standards. She does do a good job at spelling out how changes in first-year curriculum will work, which can make for serviceable fill in your why MBA essay, and maybe add one cubit to your height if you can personalize. Between the lines, she is pushing for enterpeneurs, as one way of thinking which can add to case method melting pot. As readers of my HBS comments note, I believe it is hard to get into HBS as pure entrepeneur, w.out some other blue chip experience to back that up, that view has received push-back by HBS admissions officers who claim it is incorrect. Well, show me the money, but maybe they have changed their policy. Interview supports our view that GMAT at HBS is no super big deal over 700, see later posts on this, which I discuss at some length in a profile.

The dirty little secret about the accomplishment and setback essays is that the most impt thing BY FAR is the actual setting. A wonderfully dense essay about how you led team on due diligence project and got co-op from other bankers, client, and peers on your team, which also works in why your leadership was important and imact it had on the deal and your firm is WORTH ZILCH compared to guy next to you at IB who writes about working in leper colony and getting co-op of tribal chiefs, even if that essay is merely workable. Dee Leopold kind of alluded to that in her interview in the above entry. It is not an essay writing contest, mostly they want to know what you have DONE and what 7 choices you make about what to write about--I dont want to minimize the rest of it, but once you go for due diligence, well, that essay is only going to be so good, no matter how long you apply the #9 sandpaper.
OK, all that said, many HBS admits write about some due diligence or PE deal, and they expect one or so work-ish accomplishments and setbacks, but the most important thing you can do is select powerful other stuff, that is 100x more important that worrying about how to buff up the banal stuff. Many consultants get this backward, and think that a C setting given A+ execution is better than a A+ setting given a C execution. THAT IS SO WRONG. Altho obviously consultant think, since they can help you more w. the execution than the setting.
As to your exact question, about how important is WHY factor, dunno man, no hard and fast rules here, but that should be implicit in the story, it is a matter of SHOWING THEM not TELLING them what happened. If you helped found some org. to fight for tolerance after a hate crime at your school, and the group grew to 400 members and you got $$ fr. the admin, and donors, and ran a fund raiser, and had pwerful guest speakers, and made sure org was sustainable after you left, well, that might be a good place to work in that you are also child of Holocaust survivor, but assuming you dont have any Personal Identidy ace in hole card like that, just saying "forming this group helped me deal with intolerance blahblah" dunno, spend that space adding what you did. HBS likes concrete accomplishments way more than spin about what those accomplishments mean, the accomplishments ideally should be powerful to speak for themselves. OF course, ahem, it is sometimes possible, for those of you who DO NOT HAVE A HISTORY of working in leper colonies, to make more mundance events shine a bit via deeply personalizing, and that is what consultants can help with--the impact of that help is something I wrestle with. Every year I help 100 or so kids craft hi-gloss hbs applications, and then do mock interviews of 100 other kids whom I did not help--it is always a bummer, personally, to see how little the hi-gloss has helped vs. some kids who get interviews (and admission) w. really banal essays in terms of details and executions, but the BIG PIECES are there, e.g. they just got better stories (and often better jobs and stats etc). This is also what Dee is allluding to, between the lines, in her interview inBW, altho I'm about the only person in the world who can fully unpack it.

Quote:

MY ANALYSIS OF SIX MBA HOPEFULS IS UP AT POETS AND QUANTS, ONE EXAMPLE, WHICH ALSO ADDRESSES HBS GMAT, IS BELOW.

https://poetsandquants.com/2011/09/08/breaking-through-the-elite-b-school-screen/3/
Mr. Diplomat
■710 GMAT
■3.8 GPA
■Undergraduate degree in liberal arts from a top private non-Ivy (Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern)
■Working as a U.S. State Department foreign service-political officer, focusing on the Middle East since 2007
■Proficient in colloquial Arabic
■Extracurricular activities include English/Math tutoring in the inner city, an executive student board member while in college, vice president of the student debate team, and competitive martial arts
■Goal: To land a position in finance/consulting focusing on emerging markets in the Middle East and Central Asia, possibly going back into the public sector in a management/executive role.
■27-years-old white male
Odds of Success:

Wharton/Lauder MBA/MA program: 50% to 60%
Harvard Business School: 50+%
Chicago: 60+%
Columbia: 60+%
Dartmouth: 60+%
New York University: 60% to 80%

Sandy’s Analysis: Guys like you get into HBS with solid execution, solid recommendations, and not blowing the interview, which seems unlikely for a State Dept. dude.

One question that is revealing, as it always is: How many foreign-service political officers apply to HBS and Stanford and Wharton per year, and what are their outcomes?

Just based on your GPA and GMAT and your posting to Middle East, you have to be in top 20% of that cohort, although I realize it is a hard-ish gig to get. The HBS issue then becomes just putting together the right mix of personal and State Dept. Stories, and giving off the right vibe. You deeply seem their type.

Just to clarify something about HBS and GMAT’s: For our general readers, scores over 700 stop registering much. Her majesty Dee Leopold, the HBS adcom director, says at public forums that GMAT’s over 700 stop registering at all. Well, we love HRH Dee-Dee, but what she means is, there’s probably not that much difference between your 710 and a 730, but when you see a 3.8 and a 780 and some career with the State Department, you just start getting Robert McNamara whiz-kid leader visions in your head. At least I do. Although we all know what a bang-up job he did in Vietnam, that was later after he graduated from HBS in 1939 and blah, blah, blah.

So just saying:

1. Dee is mostly telling the truth about GMAT’s not super counting over 700 (although it depends, of course, if you flunked some basic math stuff during your wildnerness frosh and soph years and then get a perfect quant GMAT score, that helps),

2. 760+ scores, combined with other items, like a 3.9+ Ivy GPA, well, Dee may not be impressed, but I am. And that is despite knowing over 20 amazing jerks with those stats. All that said, I’ve seen a fair number of HBS dings with 3.8/760+, not all of them transparent oddballs, either. Bottom line: Dee Leopold is less impressed by jumbo GMATs than Sandy Kreisberg. Double bottom line: Dee’s views about this count more, unless you are applying to the Sandy School of Business, which I do not suggest.

Ok, back to you. This is a strong Wharton-Lauder case as well, especially given your history and goals. A 710 GMAT may, in fact, hurt you more at Wharton than HBS (don’t take it over! but Wharton really tracks GMAT scores in some serious way), but man, your story is real solid. Lauder is made for guys like you. I’d downplay the finance part, though, that is not Lauder’s bag, international management is.

At other schools you mention, it should just be a matter of convincing them you want to go.

Sandy/HBSGrad,

Most of this forum talks about either essays and recommendations which are obviously very important. However, any thoughts or recommendations on the actual data fields in the application form itself?