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Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants

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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 24 May 2008, 21:43
thanks for the post, kwam.

well, i don't know what to say. i made the waitlist, and their very nicely written waitlist letter indicated they want me, but can't take everyone. i have a lot of save the world type stuff on my resume and am pursuing an MBA to go down a save the world route (i have a nonprofit + finance background). i'm sure that's what got me the interview (i think my what matters essay was strong as well), but apparently my stats were not enough to get it done. i am 25 and would be 26 at matric next year, so it's not exactly the end of the world, though i was really looking forward to going to school this year. in a way, not getting in to any school was good, because it clarified for me that i really only want to go to stanford... i know that's a pretty ridiculous thing to say, but we all have our dreams.

if i reapply, it will be to S, maybe W, and maybe the school in the city i live in for a PT program.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 07:18
IMHO, if you really want to just save the world, then you should consider getting a degree another than an MBA...The NGO/World Bank/IMF network at, say, Hopkins' SAIS or Harvard's KSG are much stronger...You know, as much as Stanford claims that they breed leader who change the world, most go into MC/IB/VC/PE. It's easy to drink the Kool Aid, and I don't want to sound pessimistic, but when you scratch the surface at S. you get what you have without scratching at every other b-school: a large number of people who want to make a lot of money after graduation, preferably in a job/industry they like...
Just my $0.02

Disclaimer: Would love to go to Stanford
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 08:19
kwam wrote:

...in Stanford's case, I honestly Really don't believe that GMAT is what matter (HUGE DISCLAIMER - I MAY BE WRONG).

As someone stated here - I'm sorry I don't remember who was it - S GSB could fill up their classes with 760+ people, with good stats and amazing personal histories. With a 380 or so intake, and Stanford's brand (as strong as Harvard), it's kind of easy. However, they are at around the 720-730, and you know why? Because they want different kind of people - IMHO.
...
Anyway, I'm just trying to say that GMAT is the least problem at Stanford, I know 2 people who got there with -700...


I respectfully disagree with the claim that GMAT is not a big factor for Stanford. If Stanford really wanted to take people with "save the world" potential, they would NOT require the GMAT. Let's not fool ourselves - it's no accident that Stanford has the highest average GMAT of any top b-school (substantially higher than HBS, even).

I also don't think SGSB could fill a class with 760+ people with good stats and amazing personal histories. Think of "people with amazing personal histories" as one set, and "people with other good stats" as another, and "people with 760+ GMAT" as the third set. Now draw a Venn diagram and take a guess as to how many people are at the intersection of the three sets. I doubt there are 450 people in that set year after year. Of course, "good stats" and "amazing personal histories" are fairly subjective, but I think we're all on the same page about those.

The "save the world potential" is mainly a differentiator between someone whose goal is to become a well-paid, high-level corporate drone and someone whose goal is to run a multinational company and positively affect the world. Taking a step back, you see that both of these people have the EXACT same goal, except I bet the first person talked all about his promotions at work and his track record in very real, uninspiring terms, whereas the second person probably showed an understanding of how he fits into the big picture of his company, and how his company fits into the big picture of the world. The second person probably had the courage to dream big and outline some clear steps about how SGSB fits into that dream.

So, call me a skeptic, but I think the difference between a 690 GMAT and a 760 GMAT means the same to Stanford as it does to Harvard, Wharton, Sloan, etc. You may sense a different attitude with the average Stanford student than you will at Harvard, but the same kind of people are at both places.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 11:51
Wow, a lot of activity on this thread after a long silence!

I would tend to agree with kwam. There are a lot of people with GMATs 700 and below who get in- the average is 720 after all. I have no idea how much weight the Adcom assigns the GMAT, but there are clearly a lot of other factors in play.

The "save the world" thing is, I think, much more important. (Again, I'm not an adcom and don't know precisely how this all fits together.) You can certainly claim the world-saving mantra is a sham or a mere matter of semantics or perspective. And I'm sure there are some students for whom that's true. But I've met a fair number of students and admits who really do want to change the world for the better, and have already done some amazing/mind-blowing things in that direction. It's a sense I didn't get as strongly at other schools visited and considered, and that's a big reason why Stanford was my top choice.

Elhaj, you raise an interesting point with KSG and SAIS, especially for those coming out of finance and related fields and considering WB or IMF. I can't comment too much on that career path. For those of us from tech or biomedical backgrounds, though, KSG isn't gonna do a lot of good :)
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 12:15
msday86 wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the claim that GMAT is not a big factor for Stanford. If Stanford really wanted to take people with "save the world" potential, they would NOT require the GMAT. Let's not fool ourselves - it's no accident that Stanford has the highest average GMAT of any top b-school (substantially higher than HBS, even).

I also don't think SGSB could fill a class with 760+ people with good stats and amazing personal histories. Think of "people with amazing personal histories" as one set, and "people with other good stats" as another, and "people with 760+ GMAT" as the third set. Now draw a Venn diagram and take a guess as to how many people are at the intersection of the three sets. I doubt there are 450 people in that set year after year. Of course, "good stats" and "amazing personal histories" are fairly subjective, but I think we're all on the same page about those.

The "save the world potential" is mainly a differentiator between someone whose goal is to become a well-paid, high-level corporate drone and someone whose goal is to run a multinational company and positively affect the world. Taking a step back, you see that both of these people have the EXACT same goal, except I bet the first person talked all about his promotions at work and his track record in very real, uninspiring terms, whereas the second person probably showed an understanding of how he fits into the big picture of his company, and how his company fits into the big picture of the world. The second person probably had the courage to dream big and outline some clear steps about how SGSB fits into that dream.

So, call me a skeptic, but I think the difference between a 690 GMAT and a 760 GMAT means the same to Stanford as it does to Harvard, Wharton, Sloan, etc. You may sense a different attitude with the average Stanford student than you will at Harvard, but the same kind of people are at both places.

the gmat is not required for stanford gsb...
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 12:30
dabots wrote:
the gmat is not required for stanford gsb...


http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/mba/admissi ... ments.html

The wording suggests that the GMAT IS required, but that's not my point. What I'm trying to say is that Stanford should eliminate the requirement for a standardized test completely, no GMAT, no GRE, etc, if they really want to take "world changers".

Either way, allowing GRE as an alternative actually works in Stanford's favor because it increases their average GMAT score. If you got a 750 on the GMAT, there's no way you're going to withhold that score. By the same token, if you get a 600 on GMAT and a 700 on GRE, which score are you going to report? So, enabling students to take the GRE as an alternative helps Stanford take some low GMAT scorers into their class while keeping their average high. I have no idea what % of admits took the GRE vs. GMAT - that would be interesting to investigate.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 12:44
The GMAT isn't required, the school accepts the GRE in order to make it easier for people considering other grad schools to apply. You can find more info here:
http://www.insidehighered.com/layout/set/print/news/2008/01/08/gmat

I suppose you could take the decision to accept GRE scores as a kind of bizarre method to raise the average GMAT. But why? Seems pretty cynical, though I guess it's possible.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 13:40
terry12 wrote:
The GMAT isn't required, the school accepts the GRE in order to make it easier for people considering other grad schools to apply. You can find more info here:
http://www.insidehighered.com/layout/set/print/news/2008/01/08/gmat

I suppose you could take the decision to accept GRE scores as a kind of bizarre method to raise the average GMAT. But why? Seems pretty cynical, though I guess it's possible.


Ta-da!!!
You guys have stolen my point! :lol:

ms, I'm not telling that it is not important, but I don't think that raising 20 to 30 points will make a difference, but for instance creating or working for an NGO will.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 25 May 2008, 15:43
kwam wrote:
ms, I'm not telling that it is not important, but I don't think that raising 20 to 30 points will make a difference, but for instance creating or working for an NGO will.


I agree completely, plus I think you guys understand my opinion is based on my natural cynicism of large institutions (i.e. any business school), and not on any real experience of SGSB or its students. Probably should've put this disclaimer out earlier, haha.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 26 May 2008, 06:14
i'm a bit late, but sorry to hear about the re-waitlist everyone... but you all are going to great schools, so hopefully you won't take the Stanford waitlist that hard. I'm fully looking forward to a great time at Haas and have gotten over the Stanford ding a while now. For my Stanford "fix", I'll just go visit terry at those amazing GSB apartments (jealous... :wink:)

Anyway, I tend to agree with kwam, the GREs are important, but no more or less important at Stanford than any top 10 school, otherwise, the top 10 schools wouldn't all have such close GMAT score averages.

As for "changing the world", I think it's a great goal for Stanford to have, whether their students end up at MC/PE/VC/IB mostly or not. At least they have been exposed to other classmates who are gung-ho about changing the world. I'm definitely fond of the Bay Area schools (Stanford and Haas) for both focusing a lot on Net Impact, Social Responsibility, Non-Profit, and "changing the world" career goals. So hopefully that culture ingrains itself into the students, even if their short term goals aren't directly related.

Now looking back, that may be why I didn't get in (other than my ancient age :P). I don't think my essays really talked about "changing the world" as much as it should. Oh well, it's all history anyways, no need to cry over it. :)

Good luck to those staying on the waitlist, but if you don't get in, you are still going to wonderful schools and it's nothing to get down about!
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 26 May 2008, 09:29
it looks like my question sparked another debate about how to get into stanford ;) it short is an obscure process.

i was hoping i could get some feedback about my question though -- is there really that much of a difference between round 1 and 2? i've repeatedly heard that round 1 is more favorable. that being said, i am in the midst of trying to finish the last CFA exam and it's a real monster (any charterholders out there?). when all is said and done, this will amount to over 400 hours of studying. picking up a GMAT book without at least a month or two of down time might cause me to lose my sanity... so i am not sure that i can even get a start on retaking the GMAT / applying before the mid-july / august time frame. am i going to gimp myself if i wait to apply in round 2? a round 2 application would be much higher quality.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 06 Jun 2008, 12:05
Dinged. This has to officially be the easiest rejection I have dealt with :-)
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 06 Jun 2008, 13:46
i'm sorry to hear that man. I just found out that I continue to be on the waitlist. Closure would be very nice at some point :)
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 06 Jun 2008, 13:54
Sorry, futureduke... though I know you were already pretty psyched about Kellogg :-D

Wanderlust, I'm really hoping we can expand gmatclub representation at the GSB. Good luck!
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 06 Jun 2008, 14:21
thanks terry12, now I can sign my lease on my apartment in Evanston and get ready for Kwest.
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 07 Jun 2008, 09:38
sorry to hear that futureduke, but we all know Kellogg is better than Stanford anyways. :P
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 07 Jun 2008, 14:20
kryzak wrote:
sorry to hear that futureduke, but we all know Kellogg is better than Stanford anyways. :P


Hey! Don't make me come over to Berkeley and dole out a whuppin', Kry :-D
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 07 Jun 2008, 19:54
terry12 wrote:
kryzak wrote:
sorry to hear that futureduke, but we all know Kellogg is better than Stanford anyways. :P


Hey! Don't make me come over to Berkeley and dole out a whuppin', Kry :-D


LOL, we'll see each other at Challenge 4 Charity soon enough! :lol:
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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 07 Jun 2008, 20:06
terry12 wrote:
kryzak wrote:
sorry to hear that futureduke, but we all know Kellogg is better than Stanford anyways. :P


Hey! Don't make me come over to Berkeley and dole out a whuppin', Kry :-D


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Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants [#permalink] New post 08 Jun 2008, 05:48
bherronp wrote:
The upside of a Terry delivered beat down is that he knows how to patch you back up afterwards.
:beat :beatup


Hee hee- true enough, I suppose. I just found out that my subspecialty board exam will take place just as recruiting is really taking off this fall. Not my idea of a fun time...
Re: Calling Stanford Fall 2008 Applicants   [#permalink] 08 Jun 2008, 05:48
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