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Changing mind about going this fall due to debt

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Senior Manager
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20 Jul 2007, 22:10
I would love to go to CMU, but I am not sure if I have the skills to go there..I am not mathematically gifted..only had up through Bus Calc..and had stats (B.A. Economics). 60% of the class there is science/engineering types, and I believe people have to have up to calc 2 for the program..
I would like to go somewhere else that is maybe not so quant heavy..I know it's crazy to say I want to go into finance but hate numbers, but I don't see myself doing computational finance which is what CMU is for all intents and purposes:)
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21 Jul 2007, 21:18
Katz is a good school, but given your limited stats, it seems like you would have been be a solid candidate at any sub-ultra elite.

As riverripper mentioned,CMU and (Penn State) might be other options to look into if you decide to sit out another year.

Either way, you are still going to have to borrow $$unless you miraculously hit the jackpot or seriously curtail your spending habits over the next twelve months. I doubt that Katz would extend that scholarship offer to you if you deferred admission, but it may be worth a try. Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 22 Jul 2007, 17:19 I am starting to get depressed over this issue. I really wanted to go back, but financially, I am scared. I don't think it has helped that I have had a health issue to deal with over the last 3 months. I had a swallowing disorder that was brought on by allergies..and trying to get myself to eat again has been a struggle. I have been deathly afraid to eat, especially alone I feel like I am between a rock and a hard place:( I do not want to do my current job for another year and then wade through the admission process.I really hate my job now Intern Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 23 Followers: 0 Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 23 Jul 2007, 07:59 You have to take one day at a time. There will never really be a convenient time to go to school and life will always happen to you. Everybody has one thing or the other that they are dealing with and yet they still go back to school. The health thing will pass. Think about what pregnant MBA students go through yet they still have fun in business school. The debt pill will always be a hard one to swallow yet many students are going ahead. Even married guys are making the move to school and I even know those whose wives are not working yet they've been able to complete the program and they've never regretted it. The main thing is what exactly do you want out of the MBA? Do you think that going to the school will help you handle that? Will you be satisfied? If not, forget about it and look for a new job since you hate your old job. My two cents. Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 27 Jul 2007, 20:41 kidderek wrote: Debt is certainly an issue. My friend and I joke about taking a 10k vacation before we start bschool. Hell what's another 10k on top of 200k? I agree with Pelihu about the ultra elites/elites. If you try hard enough at those schools, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to land an 85k+bonus job. But if you're at a lower cluster school, it may be tougher. Bschool is not for everyone, because some people can't cut it and because some people don't need it. There's no shame in not going. But, I sense there might be some other issue with you, so I will finish by posting this little gem by Alex Chu (I read this every now and then to inspire myself): The biggest hurdle facing many joe averages is having the balls to commit to something wholeheartedly. Most people simply are too chicken to emotionally invest fully in something they care about (and no, this doesn't mean quitting your job; it's deeper than that; it's about doing whatever it is you enjoy doing with your heart on the line). They're so afraid of hurt and disappointment that they'd commit half-heartedly, or not at all (because even if it's half-heartedly, you only feel half the disappointment if things don't' turn out well). Some of this starts from early childhood -- they let their parents dictate their choices even through their adult life; they constantly let peer pressure determine how to think, do, and choose; they let their environment or circumstance dictate their choices; the imagination, enthusiasm and curiosity they had as little kids is virtually non-existent by the time they're adults (but the jaded adults will always say that adults aren't supposed to be imaginative or curious because they have to live in the "real world"). They've let everything else dictate who they are that they can't be their own person (or they don't even know the person that they are and are afraid to find that out). They live according to what is *practical* as opposed to what is *possible* -- a HUGE difference between those who can fly and those who stick to their knitting. And to cope with having all their choices being dictated to them, they develop great fear and indifference -- it's a security blanket that allows them to reaffirm the fact that while they haven't been bad citizens at all, they haven't taken enough risks to accomplish great things either. They live in their honeycomb, and look to upgrade to a bigger honeycomb (i.e. a grad degree, a bigger house, a higher paying job), but are afraid to go anywhere that doesn't look like a honeycomb (they are always more worried about "looking bad" or keeping up appearances and seeking reaffirmation from others than following their own path). So It's this overwhelming fear and indifference that prevents most people from accomplishing great things (you'll notice it in many office environments -- there's always that guy who bitches and moans, and is always planning on leaving but never does right? Or the guy who always responds with "that's just the way it is. It is what it is."). Nothing big accomplished comes without great sacrifice or heartache or a trail of disappointments along the way. It's like loving someone -- the person you love the most is also the very person who can hurt you the most. So if you think about anyone who overachieves - whether it's athletic, artistic, social/political, entrepreneurial, etc. they poured their heart and soul into it. They weren't casual about their process, no matter how flip or nonchalant they seem to be about it not being a big deal. It is a big deal - few people are in the mood to talk about and relive all the crap they've gone through to get to where they are. You need the courage to endure suffering and heartbreak in order to have your shot at glory (whatever that may be). Another thing. You are who you associate with. If you want to be inspired to do great things, you need to be around others who have done such things already -- what they have done can help feed, galvanize and inspire you. I'll stop now as it's becoming too Dale Carnegie... I really hope I'm just touching on the obvious here - nothing I'm saying here is new. But you want to know the difference between an overachiever and someone who's not -- the masses overestimate natural talent, and underestimate the heart and guts necessary to turn that talent into something special. Alex Chu Who is Alex Chu? Senior Manager Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 378 Location: Times Square Schools: Baruch / Zicklin Followers: 4 Kudos [?]: 38 [0], given: 148 [#permalink] Show Tags 30 Jul 2007, 15:44 I like the topic of this thread - debt is something very very serious to consider. For the few people that I know that went to Stern/Cornell, they did not take out loans. Either their schooling was paid in cash by their parents (paying with checks per semester) -OR- their company's funded them -OR- they had very high-paying jobs and paid for school themselves. None of these three scenarios that I know 1st hand took out any loans of any sort. I think you have to judge whether or not you CAN (keyword: can) get a high paying job after school. It also depends on the city you want to live in / work in. If you have an idea that you'd like to work in NYC after school, chances are that your job will be paying you much more right out of school than a smaller city/town. This is a given but I mention this only because you have to consider what you want to do after you have the degree... If you are in a small town or small city, and you want to stay in that area after school, then be open to the fact that your pay is definitely going to be much lower than in a big city. food for thought, - timesquaredesi Current Student Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 5239 Followers: 23 Kudos [?]: 293 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 30 Jul 2007, 20:50 TimeSquareDesi wrote: I like the topic of this thread - debt is something very very serious to consider. For the few people that I know that went to Stern/Cornell, they did not take out loans. Either their schooling was paid in cash by their parents (paying with checks per semester) -OR- their company's funded them -OR- they had very high-paying jobs and paid for school themselves. None of these three scenarios that I know 1st hand took out any loans of any sort. I think you have to judge whether or not you CAN (keyword: can) get a high paying job after school. It also depends on the city you want to live in / work in. If you have an idea that you'd like to work in NYC after school, chances are that your job will be paying you much more right out of school than a smaller city/town. This is a given but I mention this only because you have to consider what you want to do after you have the degree... If you are in a small town or small city, and you want to stay in that area after school, then be open to the fact that your pay is definitely going to be much lower than in a big city. food for thought, - timesquaredesi True, but one must also consider the higher cost of living typically associated with the biggest urban areas. Some people have no choice but to reside in a mid sized city because of family, lifestyle and/or other personal committments. I disagree with the notion that one must work in a large metropolitan region to be successful, unless the only measurement of success is the value of that individual's annual income. Personally, I'd rather make 100K and have a spacious home for my family in the burbs than slave away for 200K to "survive" in a cramped downtown Manhattan apartment. Last edited by GMATT73 on 31 Jul 2007, 02:51, edited 1 time in total. SVP Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 2132 Followers: 3 Kudos [?]: 122 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 30 Jul 2007, 22:27 GMATT73 wrote: Personally, I'd rather make 100K and have a spacious home for my family in the burbs than slave away for 200K to "survive" in cramped downtown Manhattan apartment. You'd be ok if you made 200k in NYC. In the end, it's a wash. You get some, you lose some. But getting back to the original point. Let's not forget that the point of school is to secure the job that you want. It's not to be the most popular person, to get the best grades or to get a piece of paper (the degree kind, not the green kind). Let's not lose focus people. If you can't get the position you want, then the MBA is not worth your time/money. Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 30 Jul 2007, 22:32 I think I may take the year off... I don't think I want to go that far in the hole at my age..and have to raid my 401k for my second year.. What I may do is take the Veritas GMAT course to try to get my score above a 730..which may mean more funding....current score is a 690.. I have no doubt I will be able to push it above 700..I need to relax more on verbal..I got 45+ on every single practice exam and got a 40 on the test. Math..not sure how much higher I can get..got a 43..I may be able to boost that a few points with some targeted practice and some tutoring.. Current Student Joined: 29 Jan 2005 Posts: 5239 Followers: 23 Kudos [?]: 293 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 02:49 jamesrwrightiii wrote: I think I may take the year off... I don't think I want to go that far in the hole at my age..and have to raid my 401k for my second year.. What I may do is take the Veritas GMAT course to try to get my score above a 730..which may mean more funding....current score is a 690.. I have no doubt I will be able to push it above 700..I need to relax more on verbal..I got 45+ on every single practice exam and got a 40 on the test. Math..not sure how much higher I can get..got a 43..I may be able to boost that a few points with some targeted practice and some tutoring.. If you retake, save the prep course cash and focus on pumping up your quant score 4-5 points. Manhattan and GMATClub math challenges will give you a good idea as to what Q45+ content will look like. Veritas just teaches the basics. Keep in mind that elite schools like to see an overall balanced Q/V split, so pushing your verbal might result in diminishing returns. Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 05:31 GMATT73 wrote: jamesrwrightiii wrote: I think I may take the year off... I don't think I want to go that far in the hole at my age..and have to raid my 401k for my second year.. What I may do is take the Veritas GMAT course to try to get my score above a 730..which may mean more funding....current score is a 690.. I have no doubt I will be able to push it above 700..I need to relax more on verbal..I got 45+ on every single practice exam and got a 40 on the test. Math..not sure how much higher I can get..got a 43..I may be able to boost that a few points with some targeted practice and some tutoring.. If you retake, save the prep course cash and focus on pumping up your quant score 4-5 points. Manhattan and GMATClub math challenges will give you a good idea as to what Q45+ content will look like. Veritas just teaches the basics. Keep in mind that elite schools like to see an overall balanced Q/V split, so pushing your verbal might result in diminishing returns. I am one of those people that thinks the test got harder after it was switched to Pearson Vue..when I was studying a couple years back..and took PowerPre exam..I used to get 46-47 on quant all of the time..I am not s ure if it is the types of questions asked..but the math seems to be slightly harder..math is my weak point. Senior Manager Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 378 Location: Times Square Schools: Baruch / Zicklin Followers: 4 Kudos [?]: 38 [0], given: 148 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 06:40 GMATT73 wrote: TimeSquareDesi wrote: I like the topic of this thread - debt is something very very serious to consider. For the few people that I know that went to Stern/Cornell, they did not take out loans. Either their schooling was paid in cash by their parents (paying with checks per semester) -OR- their company's funded them -OR- they had very high-paying jobs and paid for school themselves. None of these three scenarios that I know 1st hand took out any loans of any sort. I think you have to judge whether or not you CAN (keyword: can) get a high paying job after school. It also depends on the city you want to live in / work in. If you have an idea that you'd like to work in NYC after school, chances are that your job will be paying you much more right out of school than a smaller city/town. This is a given but I mention this only because you have to consider what you want to do after you have the degree... If you are in a small town or small city, and you want to stay in that area after school, then be open to the fact that your pay is definitely going to be much lower than in a big city. food for thought, - timesquaredesi True, but one must also consider the higher cost of living typically associated with the biggest urban areas. Some people have no choice but to reside in a mid sized city because of family, lifestyle and/or other personal committments. I disagree with the notion that one must work in a large metropolitan region to be successful, unless the only measurement of success is the value of that individual's annual income. Personally, I'd rather make 100K and have a spacious home for my family in the burbs than slave away for 200K to "survive" in a cramped downtown Manhattan apartment. I agree with what you say 100%. In terms of success though, I would think that the reason why most people are aiming for GMAT scores north of 700, why people are applying to elite schools, etc, is to earn more money. If that wasn't the objective I think people would be "satisfied" by going to a local school and getting their MBA there. You're absolutely right though about making 200k a year and living in a cramped apartment. You can definitely live in a small town, make 100k and be successful. But I think if someone is aiming for very high GMAT scores and want to go to an elite university, out of school, they would want to earn the most money they can to pay off loans and other things. Why be 100k in debt after school only to make 100k a year out of it? And generally speaking, large cities like NYC are home to the largest companies in the world - the companies that can pay top dollar for good talent. But as you said, I honestly am looking at this from the income point of view. I know several of my coworkers have near "mansion" sized homes outside of NYC (one commutes frmo Philidelphia daily!!!) and they work in Manhattan. They are earning much more in NYC and living very comfortably with that money in another state. I'm just rambling Sorry if I'm veering off topic. GMAT Club Legend Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 4318 Location: Back in Chicago, IL Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010 Followers: 89 Kudos [?]: 746 [0], given: 5 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 09:15 TimeSquareDesi wrote: I agree with what you say 100%. In terms of success though, I would think that the reason why most people are aiming for GMAT scores north of 700, why people are applying to elite schools, etc, is to earn more money. If that wasn't the objective I think people would be "satisfied" by going to a local school and getting their MBA there. You're absolutely right though about making 200k a year and living in a cramped apartment. You can definitely live in a small town, make 100k and be successful. But I think if someone is aiming for very high GMAT scores and want to go to an elite university, out of school, they would want to earn the most money they can to pay off loans and other things. Why be 100k in debt after school only to make 100k a year out of it? And generally speaking, large cities like NYC are home to the largest companies in the world - the companies that can pay top dollar for good talent. But as you said, I honestly am looking at this from the income point of view. I know several of my coworkers have near "mansion" sized homes outside of NYC (one commutes frmo Philidelphia daily!!!) and they work in Manhattan. They are earning much more in NYC and living very comfortably with that money in another state. I'm just rambling Sorry if I'm veering off topic. Yes a lot of people who want to go to top schools for more money...thats why investment banking is so popular despite the long hours and stressful work. And judging by your comments you fit that mold very well, so good luck and enjoy that but realize that when you go to school there are going to be plenty of classmates who don't want that at all though. Personally I would rather work 40-50hrs a week for a 100K-150K a year than 70+hrs for 450K. Whats the point of making all that money to buy that big house and own that fancy car when you of wasting your life away in an office or flying from one city to the next and living in hotels. I got a very high GMAT score and am planning on applying to elite and ultra elite schools and if I double what I make great but if I make 50% more thats alright too. I dont want to go into one of the super lucrative fields like hedge funds or investment banking...as long as I end up getting more satisfaction out of my job then it will be money well spent. I like what I do but don't feel like I can make the most of my career but by going back I want to make an impact on more than on the bank account of some guy who is already worth 8 figures. Part of having a fulfilling life is professional success and thats up to an individual, for example my mother is a second grade teacher and for her thats the greatest job every, she loves work everyday even though after 35 year of doing it she still only makes 75K a year. However, the part a lot of people these days ignore is personal success. I would rather have a happy home life at the cost of maximizing my career...I know enough people whose marriages crumbled because they worked too much and neglected their wives. I would rather make 100K a year and keep my wife than make 200K a year and give half to her in a divorce settlement. SVP Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 1855 Schools: The Duke MBA, Class of 2009 Followers: 16 Kudos [?]: 201 [0], given: 2 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 11:02 Well said, Riverripper, except about the divorce settlement part. i don't want your money. SVP Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 2304 Schools: Darden Followers: 43 Kudos [?]: 465 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 11:15 aaudetat wrote: Well said, Riverripper, except about the divorce settlement part. i don't want your money. Ahh yes, but if you're the one with the job, what if I want 1/2 your money? SVP Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 1855 Schools: The Duke MBA, Class of 2009 Followers: 16 Kudos [?]: 201 [0], given: 2 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 11:18 pelihu wrote: aaudetat wrote: Well said, Riverripper, except about the divorce settlement part. i don't want your money. Ahh yes, but if you're the one with the job, what if I want 1/2 your money? you can have it, but i get the cats. Senior Manager Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 378 Location: Times Square Schools: Baruch / Zicklin Followers: 4 Kudos [?]: 38 [0], given: 148 [#permalink] Show Tags 31 Jul 2007, 11:48 riverripper wrote: Personally I would rather work 40-50hrs a week for a 100K-150K a year than 70+hrs for 450K. Whats the point of making all that money to buy that big house and own that fancy car when you of wasting your life away in an office or flying from one city to the next and living in hotels. You actually brought up my game plan ;] my plan is to make as much money as possible. if it takes 70 hrs a week to make 450k, i'll do it. the difference is that im not going to be doing 70hrs a week for life, or even 30 years. I would earn a lot of cash ASAP and then retire early... i prefer working 70 hrs a week for 10 years to make a lot of money as opposed to working 20 or 30 years making 100k per year... but you're right on the wife part though - i'll probably be retiring wife-less... lol but about the nice house and fancy car - i am a minimalist. I would earn that much and put it away for my children and for their future/education. everyone sacrifices themselves for their children at one point. i am a very family-oriented person and my gameplan is to do what i mentioned above. i would rather bust my hump, work so hard like im doing now to provide a stable and comfortable lifestyle for my kids. i would not want my kids working + going to school like i am doing now so, by taking on a lot of responsibility and providing for them, i am helping them out and giving them a good chance and good opportunity to grow. i think of it as 'taking one for the team.' i think im not gona post on this thread anymore. i feel like i am hijacking the hell out of it. lol Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 04 Aug 2007, 20:33 This is really getting to me..I Really want to go back...I am in a catch 22... In case things go wrong afterwards, can anyone tell me of a country where it is easy to obtain a work permit?:) Jim Senior Manager Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 311 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] Show Tags 04 Aug 2007, 20:39 GMATT73 wrote: Katz is a good school, but given your limited stats, it seems like you would have been be a solid candidate at any sub-ultra elite. As riverripper mentioned,CMU and (Penn State) might be other options to look into if you decide to sit out another year. Either way, you are still going to have to borrow$$\$ unless you miraculously hit the jackpot or seriously curtail your spending habits over the next twelve months. I doubt that Katz would extend that scholarship offer to you if you deferred admission, but it may be worth a try.

What schools would be considered a sub-ultra elite?
Another reason I did not apply to schools outside of my area is I told my managers the recs for Katz were for the part-time program..I don't think they would have signed them if they had known I was going back full time....I am going to have trouble getting LOR..I may have to take a few courses at CC and then use the profs from them if I sit out...
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28 Feb 2016, 16:59
Expert's post
Tough decision, but glad you are thinking through the financial side of business school. Many people are so focused on going to school, any school, that they forget to calculate the return on their tuition investment. Especially troubling if you are going to a school where the graduates don't come out making very high salaries. This can make the debt issue a big one, and cause other financial troubles down the road.
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Re: Changing mind about going this fall due to debt   [#permalink] 28 Feb 2016, 16:59

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