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chicago vs wharton

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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2008, 14:01
agold wrote:
Sorry, just looked it up. The 2003 acceptance rate was 28%. At the time, no M7 was even above 20%. Even if it has dropped to the low 20s at this point, it is still the easiest M7 to get into. I do not know whether to believe the USNews figure, but it sounds "ballpark".

Haas, NYU, Tuck, and Yale all have lower acceptance rates than Chicago.

http://www.angelfire.com/ny/netesin/top5mba.pdf

So it's higher than the schools you listed, but I wouldn't refer to it as "very high". The USNews figure may be ballpark, but given that it's coming from a respected publication that currently serves as the foremost authority on rankings/MBA program statistics, I'm willing to put some confidence in it.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2008, 14:04
Thanks agold. I was feeling your pain on Wed when the call was not coming in. I was so pissed I went to bed earlier on Wed night than I can ever remember. The WL felt a little better and then the Wharton admit just confused the hell out of me. So many gmatclubbers seemed to get into Booth and not Wharton. I am not complaining of course, but it just changed the whole game. Hard to say it but I would probably trade for a Booth admit at this moment since I already know I would love it there and in Chicago in general (from there originally).
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2008, 14:04
For me, when I went to Chicago I honestly loved the school....before that point it was Wharton > Chicago (I've been to both), but afterwards it was Chicago > Wharton.

The money matters as well. I got a decent scholarship, I imagine you did too- the money wouldn't probably be enough to move my decision if I got into say, Stanford, but it matters a lot when looking at Chicago vs. MIT or Wharton (in my opinion). Another friend of mine who got into Chicago with the same merit scholarship as me and Wharton as well is choosing Chicago. If you think about the money and what that represents after taxes, it helps out a ton, especially for two schools which have very similar opportunities coming out of them. If you were good enough to get into Wharton and Booth you already have a strong background which will land you a great job no matter what.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2008, 14:16
k88 wrote:
For me, when I went to Chicago I honestly loved the school....before that point it was Wharton > Chicago (I've been to both), but afterwards it was Chicago > Wharton.

The money matters as well. I got a decent scholarship, I imagine you did too- the money wouldn't probably be enough to move my decision if I got into say, Stanford, but it matters a lot when looking at Chicago vs. MIT or Wharton (in my opinion). Another friend of mine who got into Chicago with the same merit scholarship as me and Wharton as well is choosing Chicago. If you think about the money and what that represents after taxes, it helps out a ton, especially for two schools which have very similar opportunities coming out of them. If you were good enough to get into Wharton and Booth you already have a strong background which will land you a great job no matter what.

I know what you mean. Before I visited the schools, Wharton was far and above Chicago on my list. But, once I had the chance to check both schools out, I couldn't decide which one I would pick if I were to get into both.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 19 Dec 2008, 14:56
I'm so happy about this thread. These two schools are the only ones that I have, or will apply to. Full disclosure, I'm accepted at Chicago and WL at Wharton.

I've held Wharton as my top choice b/c of the slim edge in prestige. (I work in private equity, where this differential might matter ever so slightly, but I intend on recruiting for investment management positions post-MBA, and I truly believe there isn't much of a discernible difference for recruiting in that field.)

Apart from the brand/prestige, however, I like almost everything else about Chicago's program better. Additionally, I'd prefer living in Chicago to Philly for two years. I have to say that I've found the students that I've encountered at Chicago to be down to earth, laid back (I'm from CA), and quite honest about why they're at Chicago and the pros/cons.

This is a tough choice, and I've told myself in the past that I would take Chicago over Wharton if there was any $ offered from Chicago. Alas, I probably don't have to make that choice. This is my honest assessment (trying not to be too much of a Chicago cheer-leader since I have an admit in hand) and I felt this way prior to results.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 05:30
Thought I'd chime in with a couple of additional considerations. I agree with everything that has been said so far, but would also put forth the the size of the schools is a big difference. Whether you prefer a large school (Wharton; more clubs, larger number/diversity of electives) or a smaller school (Booth; more focused attention from administration), it was a big factor for me. Also, from what I heard from Booth students, a lot of Booth students waive portions of the core, more so than at Wharton (where it is still a possibility, but not necessarily encouraged). This was big for me, since I really wanted to be in a core with a group of my classmates.

For full disclosure, I expected to love Booth when I visited, but (for some reason) didn't click with any of the students I met (few of them actually seemed jazzed about the school) or the classes (for some reason, low energy). Could just have been an off day. Just wasn't what I was looking for. Applied and accepted to Wharton.

Just in Wharton's defense, I actually loved 8/9 students that I met there. A small sample size, I know, but they definitely defied any stuffy/arrogant stereotype that Wharton students might have. It's a huge student body, so if you're looking for diversity: it's there. People of all types, and you're likely not to be in love with a couple.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 08:05
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Last year, I had the choice between both schools - I got accepted at both. It was a very tough choice, so I guess you have to break it down in elements and assign weights to each element. Visiting the school IMO won't give you an honest view of the school, since these visits are marketing tools usually. Also, welcome week-ends are not only marketing tools but they are organized in the same time for both schools (it was the case last year and I'm sure it was no coincidence).

Back to the elements:

- Academics: tough one. Both have their lot of great teachers - and I'm sure, their lot of shitty ones too (I know Wharton does). Yes Chicago has an important amount of Nobel Prizes, but: 1. are they going to teach you? 2. if so, are they any good at teaching? Very often, the answer to these questions is no. I'd put them equal, despite the fact that Wharton's curriculum is quite demanding - I can't judge Chicago's curriculum (demanding vs. other business schools: my undergrad was 10000x times more demanding than this in terms of exams, but that's another debate).

- Program: the big debate here is cohort system vs. cherry picking your classes. You've seen in the Wharton thread what I think are the pros and cons of a cohort system (103-t66548?sk=t&sd=a&start=780). At Chicago you can choose ALL your classes. It's a very good thing if you have a good idea of what you want to do, but it's hard(er) too meet people I guess. To be honest the core system gives you a good base to tackle the electives in the second year, which is good, and there are certain great classes I would have never ever chosen if I had to cherry-pick (ethics with Donaldson for example, a real eye-opener), but I still think that Chicago's system is very nice. I don't know how you get to get close to people though in that kind of system, especially considering the fact that EC activities are not that extensive from what I gather (more on that later). So basically here it's up to you to determine what works best for you. It's a tougher call than I would have imagined: in the beginning I thought that cherry-picking was brilliant, but now I see all the advantages of a cohort system, which I didn't see before.

- Brand name: this was the element that made me favour Wharton over Chicago (the weight was heavy on this one for me). I still believe that Wharton has a big edge in terms of brand over Chicago, especially in finance and outside the US (and even in the US for that matter). Although I do agree that Chicago has the momentum atm in terms of brand. I think that if it goes on like that, in 10 - 15 years they'll be challenging H/S/W. But that supposes that Wharton doesn't react. But at the moment IMO Wharton is still the best financial school in the US. That has an impact on the financial recruiters IMO.

- Geography: well, NY and DC are 1 hour away and AC is next door (not sure if that should come into balance but just mentioning ). The close presence of NY is a poisoned gift: that means that it's very easy to go and visit Wall Street firms and show your face and motivation, but that also means that the companies EXPECT you to do it. The closed list events for NY have been announced apparently, and the rumour goes that the most successful ones (the ones that got in >6 events) are the ones that were constantly there visiting companies (I think it's a complete aberration but blame the game, not the player). For me, applying in London only, it didn't change anything. In terms of tourism, obviously NY's presence next door is super exciting.

- International students: both schools are pretty international, but I think Wharton has an edge here, which is nice. 45% of students in my class are international, which is unparalleled in an MBA program in the US. The flip side is that this international presence is skewed towards Asia (the Indian-friendly reputation is not a legend), but it's by no means a disadvantage of course.

- Sports: I'm only going to talk about Wharton here, I don't know how Chicago is. The indoor infrastructure is great here: the gym is great, the fitness centre is huge and has everything you want: basketball courts, a (great) golf simulator, a pool, etc. The outdoor infrastructure however is a true calamity: it is embarrassing that a university like Upenn only has one or two "multi-purpose" grass fields. I know that the university is in the middle of the city, but still, that's no excuse. That's actually my biggest complaint about the school.

- Infrastructure: Chicago clearly has an edge here. They have a brand new building dedicated to the MBA students. Wharton's Huntsman Hall is gorgeous and pretty new too, but we have to share it with the undergrads (there's a story behind this but I wont go into details) and it's clearly too small for 2 big programs like ours. It's tough to book study rooms and it's tough to find sports in the study lounges, especially in the buy periods. However, there are plenty of other places where you can go and study on campus (and even meet those fit girls from law), but it's annoying that you can't do it in your own building.

- Student groups: I'll comment here on the 2 EC activities where I had interaction with other schools: soccer and rugby. Basically in both we crush Chicago! More seriously, in both sports we have sent 2 teams every time to each tournament. I actually can't remember seeing Chicago at ANY of those tournaments. It's not a big sports school IMO at that would have been (if I had known) a big deal-breaker. I also know that we usually have good teams in financial competitions (from what I heard), but so might Chicago (I don't know). But globally, due to the sheer size of the program, you'll find that student groups are bigger, which makes it nicer.

I'd also like to take a minute here to tell the admits that the best thing they can do is JOIN THE RUGBY TEAM. It's the largest sport at Wharton and by far the most fun. Don't worry if you've never played, 80% of the team members didn't play before. It's great fun, there's a fantastic team spirit (on AND off the pitch) and it's a great alumni resource (the rugby team is a very close network inside the Wharton network).

- City: well here I think Chicago has an advantage. Philly is not nearly as bad as people thinks, but it's still not great. Chicago is a big, lively city. Although Philly has a lot to offer too: all major sports are present, decently sized city where you can do most things by foot (an exception in the US), a decent selection of bars, etc. But in terms of choice I'm sure that Chicago outclasses Philly. Plus Philly - although apparently it's getting better - is still a fairly dangerous city (the Centre City is safe though). I won't go into too many details (don't want to scare anybody off), but it's definitively a difference compared to Brussels for example (where I come from).

Finally I'd like to finish here with the Wharton Leadership Ventures: the leadership ventures are great (although overpriced) possibilities to visit places where you will probably never go again: Antarctica, Kili, Cotopaxi, etc. That is something that I definitively took into account when I decided for which school I was going to go to. Chicago has its own pre-term trips, but I don't think that the selection they offer equals Wharton's selection.

Anyway, hope this helps!! I tried not to give the happy clappy story about my school and present a fairly objective image of the comparison. If you don't agree on some points please tell me. As usual, if you have any questions, feels free to ask.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 08:20
great post Audio +1. Wharton is one of my top choices as well, and your perspective definitely helps!
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 15:11
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Using Audio's post I will put here my Booth perspective. Last year I applied at R1 to the then Chicago GSB, and if I weren´t accepted I would apply to Wharton at R2 (I believe from my peers accepted that I had a very good chance to be accepted there), but Chicago was my Top Choice (well, actually Stanford was my Top choice, but a long shot) all the way.

Back to the elements:

- Academics: I agree with Audio in that both are well recognized, but I will advise that Chicago's exams are hard if you decide to take advanced courses, and my undergrad was tough (Electrical Engineering in Telecommunication, integrals all over the place till my last day). And from the professors with prizes (Nobel or whatever) they do teach well, actually one of the most praised teachers is Kevin Murphy who will probably be a Nobel Prize a couple years from now, also these folks with prizes have to be good speakers, they had to defend their things to have their prizes. From talks with friends of mine at Wharton, the approach is different, but both will give you World Class education. If you can go to both places and watch a couple of classes. It is indeed a tough choice regarding here.

- Program: I'm a chooser, and I wanted to start with challenging courses. The "challenge everything" from Chicago is present almost everyday, instead of taking a basic class in a topic I already know (and pay 5 grands for this) I can pick a more advanced class and go further, learn more. It can be overwhelming though, as with choices you need to think ahead and think wisely. Another thing that is good for career switchers is that while in other schools people are learning basic stuff and going for summer internship interviews, you may go learning more advanced things - this is what a second year told me. Just keep in mind that it means that you will work hard, especially if you're like me (I decided to push myself). Regarding that making connections, I believe that all depends on you, it doesn't matter if one goes to Chicago, or Wharton or anywhere else, to make connections it depends on you.


- Brand name: Wharton still has a "heavier brand name" but The University of Chicago beats UPenn, in some countries - South America for instance - this makes a difference especially if you want to recruit for some rules and industries outside the mainstream. If you want to see what is better for you see the courses that each school offers, for me Chicago has an edge over every school for the thins I want to do after school (IM and Trading).


- Geography: Chicago is isolated, no doubt about it, but for $150 bucks you can fly to NYC; however from Philly is much shorter and perhaps less expensive and by train. As Audio said location is sometimes a poisoned gift, I imagine how hard is to people in Columbia and NYU, they must go everytime to recruiters.


- International students: 40% in Booth, not that far from Wharton, and I can say it´s pretty balanced there, though Asians are majority, for natural reasons. I made good connections with people from all continents.


- Sports: The structure is good, but honestly, I haven't had time to benefit from it, I used the swimming pool once and played basketball once. I have a friend who's into Ironman stuff, and he's been everydays at the Ratner Center: http://athletics.uchicago.edu/facilitie ... center.htm

- Infrastructure: in addition to the Harper Center (main building), we can also use Gleacher Center in downtown Chicago. This building is shared with PT and Weekend MBAs, but it is good as we can use it to study, and next quarter I will have a class downtown. There are plenty of space to study, though during exams sometimes it's hard to book rooms, but nothing that I would complain.

- Student groups: Chicago is not a big sport school, everybody knows that Audio, stop remembering me though :lol: .
I am participating in 5 groups - Investment Management Group, Hedge Fund Group, Latin American Business Group, Public Speaking Group and DSAC (The group that helps prospective students). I may join another one the Media and Entertainment Group. I'd say though that 3 is the max number, I'm participating more in the first 3 I listed. Other groups participate in challenges such as the IPO, Consulting, etc, and I know that a groups is in the final phase of a marketing thing with Mozilla.


- City: Here Chicago has a BIG edge in my opinion, especially in Arts - my wife is a Fine Artist and only NYC beats Chicago. As Chicago is the "Midwest Capital" there are many options there in terms of bars, nightlife, restaurants, etc. Sports are not that good though, as the Chicago teams are not that good the the Phillies have just won the MLB. I've never had problem with Hyde Park, though people always advise not to go further south than campus. I was talking to rhyme a couple of weeks ago and I told him that Chicago is a city to live, not only study, for an urban person like me it's perfect. Also prices there aren't bad, actually comparing to my friends in Boston, Philly, NYC, Bay Area, Chicago is cheap. Some people don't care about 2 years, I do, 2 years will be, luckily, around 3.5% of my adult life for me and my wife this is a huge number. The weather is harsh, especially for a Brazilian like me, but hey I'd be screwed everywhere but California :-D


In my opinion, it's a toss up, though if you want some specific areas - Health Care for instance - Wharton may be a better choice. Both schools are great, you will have practically the same opportunities in both schools. The Money shouldn't be the focus to untie here, right now it may semm big, but it's not, see where you better fit. Talk to people, because in the end is who are going to be your contact. And do what you're doing: ask, think, imagine, balance things...
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 15:40
Excellent stuff Audio and kwam!
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 15:57
Audio: DC is more like 2-2.5 hrs from Phil. Not a big deal but I just wanted to clarify.

Wharton and Booth were my top 2 choices. The only disadvantage of Booth in my opinion was that Chicago isn't a drivable distance from any other major city (sorry, Milwaukee doesn't count) in case I want to get away for a weekend. On the plus side, I did find out that there's an Indian casino a couple hrs away in Michigan where I can play poker to my heart's delight, so it's all good now :)
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 15:59
Now you've got to tell us the difference between an Indian casino and a Western one! You have to.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 16:01
sonibubu wrote:
On the plus side, I did find out that there's an Indian casino a couple hrs away in Michigan where I can play poker to my heart's delight, so it's all good now :)


Sonibubu you don't even have to go that far. There are a few riverboat ones that are closer in Elgin... :P
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 20 Dec 2008, 16:02
sonibubu wrote:
Audio: DC is more like 2-2.5 hrs from Phil. Not a big deal but I just wanted to clarify.

Wharton and Booth were my top 2 choices. The only disadvantage of Booth in my opinion was that Chicago isn't a drivable distance from any other major city (sorry, Milwaukee doesn't count) in case I want to get away for a weekend. On the plus side, I did find out that there's an Indian casino a couple hrs away in Michigan where I can play poker to my heart's delight, so it's all good now :)


Not to derail the topic, but you can drive to Milwaukee for a poker game at a casino, too: http://paysbig.com/gaming/tablegames/poker.htm
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 09:52
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FYI, I was reading some blogs and came across this summary of one person's academic experience at Chicago: http://tombaornot.blogspot.com/2008/11/ ... -ugly.html
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 09:56
bball wrote:
FYI, I was reading some blogs and came across this summary of one person's academic experience at Chicago: http://tombaornot.blogspot.com/2008/11/ ... -ugly.html


Thanks for the post. I think some of these issues on the blog resonates from the large class size at Booth.

I will definitely have to consider the class size as factor before enrolling somewhere.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 10:22
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Awesome post Audio & kwam! kudos..

This is brilliant, its gives perspective in selecting schools. Even though I have postponed my application to 2010, I really appreaciate your insights. It helps me filter my schools.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 11:25
bball wrote:
FYI, I was reading some blogs and came across this summary of one person's academic experience at Chicago: http://tombaornot.blogspot.com/2008/11/ ... -ugly.html


This blog entry is useful and interesting and is certainly worth reading. But it's important to take it with a huge grain of salt. If you read the other postings within the blog (I read the entire thing), the writer tends to be extremely negative - about absolutely everything in life. The writer even acknowledges this negativity in one of the postings and calls herself "Ms. Curmudgeon" at one point. Plus, note the 40 postings in the "whining" category and the 9 in "griping", both of which are extremely accurate category names.

Nevertheless, after reading the blog I was a bit concerned, so I actually discussed specifics gripes from the blog with a couple of current students last week. Their perspective was sharply different and far more positive. I got their perspective about bidding on courses, and they seemed surprised by the blog writer's bad experience. It doesn't sound hard at all to get great classes with great professors. That's what I've heard from other students as well, so their comments were consistent with what I've heard everywhere outside of this blog.

Bottom line, I recommend reading the blog to gather more information about Chicago, but I'd be very skeptical of the particularly negative parts.
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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 15:45
great stuff Audio and kwam. This thread has been added to the Knowledge Vault. I'm sure future generations will benefit from the discussion here.

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Re: chicago vs wharton [#permalink] New post 22 Dec 2008, 16:18
Audio, Kwam - excellent input (impressive as well). Thank you! +1 (and additional +1 if system allows ;-)
Re: chicago vs wharton   [#permalink] 22 Dec 2008, 16:18
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