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Consider To be

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Consider To be [#permalink] New post 07 May 2005, 17:55
Business loans were considered to be more useful to recipient businesses than was management and technical assistance.


Ok guys we know that when consider is used in place of "regarded as" ........"to be" should not be used.

Ok so over here what do u think is the USE of TO BE appropriate.

This is very tricky part and can be one of the TYPES on our GMAT so let's get the CONCEPT straight.

Thanks
Saurabh Malpani
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 [#permalink] New post 07 May 2005, 18:30
considered to be is incorrect usage here - just "considered" is fine
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Re: Consider To be [#permalink] New post 07 May 2005, 20:41
saurabhmalpani wrote:
Business loans were considered to be more useful to recipient businesses than was management and technical assistance.

Ok guys we know that when consider is used in place of "regarded as" ........"to be" should not be used.

Ok so over here what do u think is the USE of TO BE appropriate.

This is very tricky part and can be one of the TYPES on our GMAT so let's get the CONCEPT straight.


Not sure you really want the this whole answer, but here you go. It's certainly OK to say "to be" on many occasions, just not after considered in a sentence like that one. Understand this, and you'll master the concept.

Infinitive = to + verb
"Be" is a verb, and "to be" is the infinitive form of the verb. A verb usually expresses action, but its infinitive form serves one of three roles: noun, adjective, or adverb.

Take nouns. In a sentence, a noun is typically the subject, object, or a subject complement (a word that modifies or identifies the subject). Therefore, an infinitive such as "to be" can serve in any of these roles.

Here's what I mean with some examples of "to be" acting properly as a noun.

subject --- verb --- direct object
I want money.
I want to be rich.

subject --- verb --- subject complement
An MBA is my goal.
To be a doctor is my goal.

With some of the idiom rules you see, such as "forbid to" vs "forbid from", what we're really saying is, forbid is customarily followed by an infinitive form of a verb, instead of by the preposition "from":

I forbid you to go ..... vs. ..... I forbid you from going

In the line above, to go is acting as a noun serving as direct object (you is indirect object.) Exactly the same as "I threw you the ball"... where ball is the noun serving as direct object.

About considered to be:
The issue comes up in the construction subject + verb + subject complement, where the verb is "is considered":
subject + verb + subject complement
The loan + is considered + useful.

The point here is, to be is simply unnecessary and redundant. It's not really grammatically incorrect, but the word "consider" in and of itself contains enough meaning that we know the word following it is a subject complement (modifies the subject), and so as a style preference you don't need "to be".
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Re: Consider To be [#permalink] New post 07 May 2005, 20:54
Supercat wrote:
saurabhmalpani wrote:
Business loans were considered to be more useful to recipient businesses than was management and technical assistance.

Ok guys we know that when consider is used in place of "regarded as" ........"to be" should not be used.

Ok so over here what do u think is the USE of TO BE appropriate.

This is very tricky part and can be one of the TYPES on our GMAT so let's get the CONCEPT straight.


Not sure you really want the this whole answer, but here you go. It's certainly OK to say "to be" on many occasions, just not after considered in a sentence like that one. Understand this, and you'll master the concept.

Infinitive = to + verb
"Be" is a verb, and "to be" is the infinitive form of the verb. A verb usually expresses action, but its infinitive form serves one of three roles: noun, adjective, or adverb.

Take nouns. In a sentence, a noun is typically the subject, object, or a subject complement (a word that modifies or identifies the subject). Therefore, an infinitive such as "to be" can serve in any of these roles.

Here's what I mean with some examples of "to be" acting properly as a noun.

subject --- verb --- direct object
I want money.
I want to be rich.

subject --- verb --- subject complement
An MBA is my goal.
To be a doctor is my goal.

With some of the idiom rules you see, such as "forbid to" vs "forbid from", what we're really saying is, forbid is customarily followed by an infinitive form of a verb, instead of by the preposition "from":

I forbid you to go ..... vs. ..... I forbid you from going

In the line above, to go is acting as a noun serving as direct object (you is indirect object.) Exactly the same as "I threw you the ball"... where ball is the noun serving as direct object.

About considered to be:
The issue comes up in the construction subject + verb + subject complement, where the verb is "is considered":
subject + verb + subject complement
The loan + is considered + useful.

The point here is, to be is simply unnecessary and redundant. It's not really grammatically incorrect, but the word "consider" in and of itself contains enough meaning that we know the word following it is a subject complement (modifies the subject), and so as a style preference you don't need "to be".


Excellent explanation!! Please continue to contribute on GmatClub
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 06:33
:cool Supercat!!

No wonder why you got 46 in Verbal. You deserved it by all means 8-) .
Please keep participating.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 06:37
Agree with supercat and nice explanation as well! :good

I have seen in many renowned books, including Kaplan non-GMAT related material, sentences with "considered to be" and I told myself that in GMAT world, this is wrong. Just stick to "X is considered Y" and you will nail it.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 07:06
ok Now I have comments for the expert I will like to disclose that THIS SENTENCE is CORRECT as it is and is from RC Section of OG.

So i don't know if the useage of TO BE here is correct or what?

Kindly explain
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Re: Consider To be [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 08:44
Supercat wrote:
saurabhmalpani wrote:
Business loans were considered to be more useful to recipient businesses than was management and technical assistance.

Ok guys we know that when consider is used in place of "regarded as" ........"to be" should not be used.

Ok so over here what do u think is the USE of TO BE appropriate.

This is very tricky part and can be one of the TYPES on our GMAT so let's get the CONCEPT straight.


Not sure you really want the this whole answer, but here you go. It's certainly OK to say "to be" on many occasions, just not after considered in a sentence like that one. Understand this, and you'll master the concept.

Infinitive = to + verb
"Be" is a verb, and "to be" is the infinitive form of the verb. A verb usually expresses action, but its infinitive form serves one of three roles: noun, adjective, or adverb.

Take nouns. In a sentence, a noun is typically the subject, object, or a subject complement (a word that modifies or identifies the subject). Therefore, an infinitive such as "to be" can serve in any of these roles.

Here's what I mean with some examples of "to be" acting properly as a noun.

subject --- verb --- direct object
I want money.
I want to be rich.

subject --- verb --- subject complement
An MBA is my goal.
To be a doctor is my goal.

With some of the idiom rules you see, such as "forbid to" vs "forbid from", what we're really saying is, forbid is customarily followed by an infinitive form of a verb, instead of by the preposition "from":

I forbid you to go ..... vs. ..... I forbid you from going

In the line above, to go is acting as a noun serving as direct object (you is indirect object.) Exactly the same as "I threw you the ball"... where ball is the noun serving as direct object.

About considered to be:
The issue comes up in the construction subject + verb + subject complement, where the verb is "is considered":
subject + verb + subject complement
The loan + is considered + useful.

The point here is, to be is simply unnecessary and redundant. It's not really grammatically incorrect, but the word "consider" in and of itself contains enough meaning that we know the word following it is a subject complement (modifies the subject), and so as a style preference you don't need "to be".


Please do share your verbal notes particularly on SC....Boy you are awesome
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 09:13
Well, it is from RC and not SC, which will particularly picky on this issue. You should stick to the right idiom for conciseness' sake. I remember that SC question about slavery in the OG using the idiom "X is considered Y" and do not get to swayed by what might be part of RC. I have yet to see a question where you had to choose between "considered" vs "considered to be" and where the latter prevailed.
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 12:50
saurabhmalpani wrote:
ok Now I have comments for the expert I will like to disclose that THIS SENTENCE is CORRECT as it is and is from RC Section of OG.

So i don't know if the useage of TO BE here is correct or what?

Kindly explain


Business loans were considered to be more useful to recipient businesses than was management and technical assistance.

Saurabh, that's an example of how tricky the GMAT can be. I have in fact seen examples of the ETS editorial staff violating its own S/C rules in the Official Guide, etc.

Please understand that what we're talking about here -- with "considered to be" and other such idioms -- are very subtle "rules" regarding effective style.

No doubt the passage was written by some author who had no problem with saying "considered to be," and ETS didn't think of editing it out before putting it in a test. From this I gather that in the halls of ETS, the staff who work on RC questions are not the same people as those who create S/C questions.

"Considered to be" is NOT grammatically incorrect, and native english speakers do use that phrase all the time. You hear it on TV and read it in articles. Some very similar phrases would actually require the "to be", or else would sound awkward. For example:

The loans were believed to be more useful...
The loans were thought to be more useful...
The loans were expected to be more useful...
--BUT--
The loans were considered more useful

The first three sentences are fine in my judgement; with "considered" the sentence is almost exactly the same, but due to the vagueries of style, it's preferred we don't use "to be". By that I mean that, most of the authorities on usage and style would agree you should just use "considered".

English isn't physics or math. It wasn't planned out and its rules are often violated. A bunch of illiterate medieval barbarians mutated a language for themselves, and eventially grammarians began to take snapshots of it to see how it worked and what general rules seemed to apply most of the time. Authorities on style and grammar have been trying to keep people in line ever since.

All that being said, I think that S/C questions seldom hinge on just a subtle variation in idiom. ETS doesn't want to screw up and be proven wrong. For example, you won't see a SC question that depends on whether or not to split an infinitive. Many people absolutely insist that you should never split an infinitive; other authorities say it's OK, which allows you to say cool things like "to boldly go where no man has gone before." That's controversial, and ETS wouldn't test it (that I've ever seen).

Nearly always, there's some other major clue to the correct answer. Certainly, you wouldn't see more than maybe one hard SC question per test that would depend on something so subtle.

Hope that helps
Supercat :twisted:
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 [#permalink] New post 08 May 2005, 17:03
Thanks Supercat!

Keep Posting and enlighting us with ur knowledge bank
Saurabh Malpani :-D
  [#permalink] 08 May 2005, 17:03
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