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Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help

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Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 03:44
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Please share your thoughts.

This is a real tough decision for me.

I am a traditional person, who rely on heart when brain fails, but this time, heart is also failing.

I am fortunate enough to be selected at both MBS and Cranfield and I am unable to decide between the two. By the way, I have already eliminated few other similar schools, those were easy for me to eliminate.

MBS and Cranfield are very close to my heart from day 1 of my MBA journey.

I know, at the end of the day, it is pure personal decision. But I would like to hear your personal opinion. I believe nothing is absolutely wrong or nothing is absolutely right. However, what might be right to you might be right to me as well ... and I may have overlooked that aspect. Same goes for negative aspects. I am just trying to take a well balanced and deliberated decision.

First a bit about my situation.

I am well experienced (or say OLD, male, aged 30++) in general management and work in one interesting domain. I am not sure whether I can join back my industry or I have to look for a wider industry. Preferably I would look for Supply Chain, Retail, Automobile, Transportation, Aviation related companies. I may even expand to Core sectors or service sectors. I prefer a big team/projects/operation rather than working in silos or to be a whiz kid!! ... I feel at home in "jack of all", varieties, uncertainties and dynamism. For sure, finance, consultancy or technology sector will be the last option for me.

Location wise, I am open but definitely would love to be in the UK.

I am Non-EU

I am fluent in English but need to localise for UK. Worked in MNC environment for long and communication is not an issue BUT I highly value localisation.

Objective of MBA?

I am confident that I will be heading something in next 3-4 years. But before I head something, I would love to be equipped myself properly so that I satisfy myself that I am doing a good job and I am doing it right. So I am risking my successful career for LEARNING and accordingly I have narrowed down to MBS and Cranfield. On the other side, knowing my age and various financial commitments, Placement is equally important to me. However, placement is not the MOST important aspect for me.

Here is a quick summary of my own findings so far

MBS and Cranfield probably have the most comprehensive programme with a great focus on application of the theory. Both the programmes are equally good with few differences like:

a. 18 months Vs 12 months

b. 3 Internships Vs no formal internship

c. MBS is extensive Vs Cranfield is intensive (someone claims )

d. MBS is part of a wider university Vs Cranfield is a post grad only university

e. Partnership, overseas schools and exchange programme options at MBS - not sure at the moment whether useful to me

f. Work experience of the class at Cranfield seems to a bit higher than MBS

g. Class mix seems to be more diverse in MBS, compared to Cranfield. Although both are much better than many other schools, however, both the schools has a huge Indian IT people and other Asian class. I would like to hear your views on this aspect.

h. Again on class mix, I heard Cranfield receives many military personnel in the class. My personal experience with armed force is impressive. They apply all the management principles all the times ... but without formally knowing it!!. Yes, they sometime appears to be a bit rigid and egoistic. The reason I found is quite interesting, they lacks communication power to clearly convey their concern and apprehension. I learned too many things from armed force but I heard some opposite views by few students.

i. City location Vs Self contained village location but then again, close to London and both have their own pros and cons

j. Strong focus on General Management, Operation and SCM at Cranfield; MBS is just breathing over the neck though!!

k. In UK, both are equally known but outside world, Manchester is better known. Does not matter for football but people at all levels can immediately recognise Manchester.

l. Both are old and matured programme with huge alumni network.

m. Both focuses a lot on personal development. Cranfield may be a slight notch better.

n. Both have almost similar class size, MBS is a tad larger.

o. Reputation, student satisfaction are almost same.

p. Cranfield has their executive programme and very well known in sr management circle. But I presume it will be in local market.

Some of the things that does not bother me too much are

a. Ranking

b. Accreditation (both are triple accredited, in that matter, they are ahead of LBS, OX and CAM)

c. ROI, fees, scholarships, cost of living

d. Elective options - my focus is operation/SCM but in general MBS has few more electives than Cranfield

e. 1 year master degrees are not recognised in some countries (someone claimed in one post)

f. Family support (my family will be able to survive!! but support is nice to have like clinic nearby)

g. Nightlife, shopping options, lively city, vibrant city, sunny city, heritage city, historic city!!

h. Local transport options

i. Opportunity to learn a new language (come on, you might be kidding!!)

j. Climate

k. Food options

l. Whether have specific finance module or not

m. I heard few people complaining that MBS professors takes a back seat and let the student discuss. To me this is a very positive approach than playing a record with 10 years old slides.

I must say, the experience I got with both the schools so far is extraordinary. Both the schools have a strong personal touch and Ms Spiro (MBS) is like a motherly figure and David (Cranfield) is like big brother. You immediately connect with them and you instantly feel that you are at the very right hand. You are treated as 'Mike' not someone from 13-14 batch!!

I believe I will have equally great learning experience at both the places.

What I am not sure is, Placement Outlook. Which school will have better scope to land in a decent job in General Management.

I am not looking at 'hard data'. I am looking at the ground feel. How upbeat are the current class about their placement outlook?


I am also looking at views on Placement Department's Support


Talking to current students/alumni as well as visiting the school is a great suggestion ...... roger!!

Please share your views and opinion.

Thank you very much and my apologies for this extraordinary long thesis.

********************************
NB: Please, no motherhood statements. All knows that individual plays the key role in landing in a job, no spoon feeding, blah blah. Also please avoid "nothing is guaranteed" or should not assume something kind of approach!!

Right platform makes a hell lot of difference. I did my graduation from one school where even the donkeys get to choose from many jobs. And I saw my brightest friends from other schools to literally fight for BPO/Amway kind of jobs. Number of available opportunities matters a LOT. Also matters a lot, how the placement team supports you during those trying period.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 17 Jan 2013, 22:46
Any thought please?
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 05:48
What are you expecting others to say?
From your post, you've already done the analysis. You already know what you want. Don't you?
wouldbecrazy wrote:
Any thought please?
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 06:00
gmatmbatroll wrote:
What are you expecting others to say?
From your post, you've already done the analysis. You already know what you want. Don't you?
wouldbecrazy wrote:
Any thought please?


Thank you very much for your response.

I know what I want and both provides almost equal opportunity for that.

However, I am not sure about placement options 'generally' available in both the schools

I am not sure how supportive and proactive the career sections are?

I am not sure about any other factors that I failed to identify.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 07:27
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Let me be brutally honest here and ask some tough questions based on my own personal experience. Then I'll share my feedback.
1- You mentioned you're a non-EU. Non EU is a big group. Are you a White Australian or Black Sudanese? Sorry to sound racist. Believe me world is not colorblind. No matter how we wish it to be :(
2- If you are a non-EU, do you've any sort of residency/work authorization in EU/EC.
3- How do you define General Management? In my opinion and experience, MBA is not needed to progress in General Management. You need to have number of other factors and MBA is at last. I only know one school, IMD, which harps about it.
4- You mentioned you're working in an interesting domain. Are you really interested in career switch, function switch within the same domain i.e. what are you really aiming? You did not mention the domain so it's really difficulty to share any further feedback.
5- You mentioned about large number of IT/Indian students. You'll find them everywhere in every school. If you've seen school sites which share their students profile, you can see it yourself. Again IMD is one example. Although IMD limits the number of students from each nationality, you can still find Indians who will have US/AU/NZ/UK citizenship.
6- Whenever I read ROI on a posting, I interpret it as the person wants to recover his/her MBA tuition fee+Opportunity Cost as soon as possible. In my observation, it's really link to pt 1, 2.
7- The problem is compounded if you've taken tuition fee loan. It will be a nightmare to recover your MBA opportunity cost if you've to work in a 3rd world country on a local package after your MBA. I know a few cases.
8- To limit the damage to their reputation, some expensive and highly ranked schools are very careful selecting the students. For one example, I've observed a number of INSEAD graduates from subcontinent who have either dual nationality or work authorization/residency in a developed country. Go figure what does that mean.
9- Have you ever worked in an MNC in two different countries? If yes, you can figure how this question relates to career in General Management being an alien/foreigner.
10- Are you "dying" to work in UK after MBA?
11- If you have traveled extensively, you should know middle east is a dumping ground of MBAs from Europe in general and from INSEAD and LBS in particular. Although you don't care about ranking, tell me how you'll convince a hiring manager that he should hire you as MBA from MBS instead of an MBA from INSEAD/LBS. Middle eastern sheiks are suckers for "grand" rankings and "beauty"....MNCs/Consultancies know it very well and also exploit it well. If you've been there, you'll also know it.
12- I mentioned the previous point as I've seen many such cases and I feel sorry for them....but who said world just/fair.
13- I read your objective. From your post i know you're 30+ (it can be 31 or it can be 39). In my observation, age is not the issue in general management. It matters only in consulting or some banking domains where boss needs a lot of young sheep in form MBA to sacrifice.
14- From your post, placement is important for you. I can understand the financial commitments at the age of 30+. There is nothing much school can do no matter what school says. Your visa will be processed by UKBA and it will be your employer who would have to follow up with UKBA. I don't see school involved in the whole process. Getting first round interview should not be a problem. It would be later stages that would decide your fate with particular employer.
15- Now the brutal fact. I myself carry a passport which needs visa for every country I travel. I'm always "randomly" picked from the queue for questioning. For most countries where my employer has offices, I cannot get work visa. I just travel on short term business visas. My employer hates it but I still have something extra to offer and so far it has not find my suitable replacement. I run 3 international offices on my business visas. Just to avoid this trouble, I only hire staff who are either locals/residents or have preferential work visa treatment. I think you get my point.
16- Ranking, strength of MBA networking, school brand name in the region do matter. I still ride on the ranking of my undergrad university.



quote="wouldbecrazy"]
gmatmbatroll wrote:
What are you expecting others to say?
From your post, you've already done the analysis. You already know what you want. Don't you?
wouldbecrazy wrote:
Any thought please?


Thank you very much for your response.

I know what I want and both provides almost equal opportunity for that.

However, I am not sure about placement options 'generally' available in both the schools

I am not sure how supportive and proactive the career sections are?

I am not sure about any other factors that I failed to identify.[/quote]
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 08:35
gmatmbatroll wrote:
Let me be brutally honest here and ask some tough questions based on my own personal experience. Then I'll share my feedback.

--: Thank you very much and this is one of the right approach to get the fact out rather than goody goody lip services. I appreciate that. Let me try to address each and every question to the best of my knowledge. And I will not bit around the bushes!! I will be brutally direct too!!

1- You mentioned you're a non-EU. Non EU is a big group. Are you a White Australian or Black Sudanese? Sorry to sound racist. Believe me world is not colorblind. No matter how we wish it to be :(

--: I agree with your point and I know what you really meant. I am an Asian, non native English speaker and need "visa" for almost all countries. The "Non-EU" was mentioned to highlight that I will require work authorisation for any damn place!!

2- If you are a non-EU, do you've any sort of residency/work authorization in EU/EC.

--: No, I I will require work authorisation for almost all countries.


3- How do you define General Management? In my opinion and experience, MBA is not needed to progress in General Management. You need to have number of other factors and MBA is at last. I only know one school, IMD, which harps about it.

--: General Management is a big area, in simple word, Jack of all and master of none!! You need that kind of broader views and perspective when you move up and manage finance, operation, technology, etc under you. You need not be a finance whizkid but you must know the fundamentals to get the best out of your teams that are full of experts in various areas. Your job is to get the things done by the expert.

4- You mentioned you're working in an interesting domain. Are you really interested in career switch, function switch within the same domain i.e. what are you really aiming? You did not mention the domain so it's really difficulty to share any further feedback.

--: My domain is very small and very regulated/controlled. I would love to be in my own domain but scope of MBA in my domain is very limited. For simplicity assume Government. So to widen my career search, I would broaden to supply chain management or even to core sectors as those are fundamentally the same.

5- You mentioned about large number of IT/Indian students. You'll find them everywhere in every school. If you've seen school sites which share their students profile, you can see it yourself. Again IMD is one example. Although IMD limits the number of students from each nationality, you can still find Indians who will have US/AU/NZ/UK citizenship.

--: Yes true but it depends on the extend. Some schools last year did the blunder and almost half of the students were from one area. I guess more than 15% from one area or one domain is not a good sign. Over 30% is an alarm sign, does not matter even if the remaining 70% comes from 70 different countries.

6- Whenever I read ROI on a posting, I interpret it as the person wants to recover his/her MBA tuition fee+Opportunity Cost as soon as possible. In my observation, it's really link to pt 1, 2.

--: I have more important selection criteria than ROI.

7- The problem is compounded if you've taken tuition fee loan. It will be a nightmare to recover your MBA opportunity cost if you've to work in a 3rd world country on a local package after your MBA. I know a few cases.

--: If you voluntarily choose a 3rd world country on a local package, probably ROI may not be at the top of your mind. But if you are left with no other option but forced to opt for such an option, then there is some real issue. I am precisely trying to eliminate any possibilities of that happening at this stage. I do agree there are many uncertainties but I would like to identify the known issues atleast and accordingly take my decision.

8- To limit the damage to their reputation, some expensive and highly ranked schools are very careful selecting the students. For one example, I've observed a number of INSEAD graduates from subcontinent who have either dual nationality or work authorization/residency in a developed country. Go figure what does that mean.

--: I do understand what you mean. Ranking means business!!

9- Have you ever worked in an MNC in two different countries? If yes, you can figure how this question relates to career in General Management being an alien/foreigner.

--: Yes, I do and I know the extra effort you have to put to make it happen. And believe me, the extra effort is required during the initial period. Once you are proven, you are no more an alien. And yes, localisation of communication makes a huge difference.

10- Are you "dying" to work in UK after MBA?

--: NO, I am not dying to work anywhere. I am mobile for career progression. I would rather prefer to join a relatively low paying job, in a least attractive place BUT with the best career progression visible in 3-5 years time. I work for long term.

11- If you have traveled extensively, you should know middle east is a dumping ground of MBAs from Europe in general and from INSEAD and LBS in particular. Although you don't care about ranking, tell me how you'll convince a hiring manager that he should hire you as MBA from MBS instead of an MBA from INSEAD/LBS. Middle eastern sheiks are suckers for "grand" rankings and "beauty"....MNCs/Consultancies know it very well and also exploit it well. If you've been there, you'll also know it.

--: Linked to the above answer. I work for long term. Long term career visibility is important to me, not immediate Carrot or bonus. I liked your mention of "beauty" but then again, thats the reality ... and I am not going to Bangkok soon!!

12- I mentioned the previous point as I've seen many such cases and I feel sorry for them....but who said world just/fair.

--: There are different people with different objectives. Some are looking for quick win and some work hard for sustainable wins!! I fall on the secon category.

13- I read your objective. From your post i know you're 30+ (it can be 31 or it can be 39). In my observation, age is not the issue in general management. It matters only in consulting or some banking domains where boss needs a lot of young sheep in form MBA to sacrifice.

--: No dear, it matters a hell lot. Why do you think some of the ranked schools are scared to even interview 'aged' candidates. One main reason is, their career team had to work extra hard to find a suitable match. One of my friend is going through this phase now. Recruiters generally visits schools for entry level positions. Most of the time, they are not the right person to recruit relatively senior position.

14- From your post, placement is important for you. I can understand the financial commitments at the age of 30+. There is nothing much school can do no matter what school says. Your visa will be processed by UKBA and it will be your employer who would have to follow up with UKBA. I don't see school involved in the whole process. Getting first round interview should not be a problem. It would be later stages that would decide your fate with particular employer.

--: Not really. Visa processing is the final touch and in reality the least problematic area. The starting point is the contacts. You have to establish connection at the right level and continously keep on banging. Career section plays a caring role to connect you to the right lead. yes, you can generate your own lead but more fruitful leads will be generated from the career sections.

15- Now the brutal fact. I myself carry a passport which needs visa for every country I travel. I'm always "randomly" picked from the queue for questioning. For most countries where my employer has offices, I cannot get work visa. I just travel on short term business visas. My employer hates it but I still have something extra to offer and so far it has not find my suitable replacement. I run 3 international offices on my business visas. Just to avoid this trouble, I only hire staff who are either locals/residents or have preferential work visa treatment. I think you get my point.

--: Yes, I fully understand what you mean and I myself does the same. It is not about real hassel but it is more like percieved hassel and a feeling of being constraint by mobility of my staff ..... and then that common human behavior, why do extra?

16- Ranking, strength of MBA networking, school brand name in the region do matter. I still ride on the ranking of my undergrad university.

--: Yes, true but when both are almost equally ranked, the practical differences are not really visible on the ground.


Thank you very much for your insightful sharing. I have tried to add my views against each and every point that you rightfully pointed out. Now may I ask for your opinions please?

I truly believe you are not the person who ask brutal question to discourage people. I would love to believe that you are the person who goes beyond the surface, who ask brutal question to get the deeper insights and then advice based on complete information.

I am looking forward to hearing your thoughts and views.

Please feel free to ask for any further clarification if that helps you to form your opinion.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 21:40
Thanks to two wonderful persons for their great insights. Their detailed information helped me to narrow down to two critical questions as follows

1. Do you feel that the additional 6 months window in MBS will help in any way to get a job?

2. Do you feel that the internship in MBS may land you in a job?


I know none can foresee the future and hence I requested for your own "feeling"

Regarding the extra 6 months, I am not coming from economy improving in extra 6 months. I am looking from the angle that in Cranfield I will get just 1 year and in MBS I will get 1.5 years to search for a job. In better time 3 months is enough to land in a job but in this time, complicated by visa hurdle .... whether that 6 months additional stay will help?. The negative aspect is, that 6 months will cost money and there is opportunity lost cost ... also, if you can not land in a job in 1 year then additional 6 months also may not really help.

Internship helps in landing in a job, no doubt about that. BUT, internship does not guarantee you a job. So in essence, internship is just another avenue to land in a job, may be a bit more solid chance. Cran too got some kind of internship arrangement but not formalised like MBS.

Appreciate your views about the two crucial questions.

Cheers!
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 21:47
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You seem to have all the necessary information along with pros and cons to make a choice to go for MBA in UK. In that case, just toss a coin and you'll be OK.
MBA is a large investment in terms of time, resources and $$$. We expect school's career/placement service to help us to find a job which can quickly recover the investment. Knowing this fact, schools also play with it make career service highlight of their program. How successful schools are is a speculation. You know it very well. It's evident from you post in Prospects for European Placement for American MBAs.
Most of my information comes from feedback from my subordinates for whom I've written their recommendations.
1- If you are "too" talented, admission in MBA and placement is not a problem. You can go to top 10 schools in US like Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, MIT,....with scholarship. You would not look at INSEAD, LBS, IMD.
2- Some "above average" talented candidates were rejected (or waitlisted and then rejected) by top EU schools.. The only flaw I could see was their citizenship and heavy loan to sponsor their MBAs. Some of these rejects from EU schools made it to top 15 US schools. In that respect, US schools are little tolerant.
3- Scenario mentioned in 2 changes drastically when some of such candidates had US green card or residency in EU. It would even more beneficial if you have dual nationality. Look carefully at published profiles of accepted students of Business Schools. You can easily figure out who are using their "favorable" nationality.

Now come to placement of EU Business Schools. I'm only aware of INSEAD, IMD, LBS, St Gallen and ESSEC (to certain extent).
1- The full impact of changes in UK visa policies is not known. A number of English speaking graduates used to head UK. The available career reports are from 2011. May be it will be another 2-3 years before we can know "with evidence" that what's going on. I really doubt that any current student/recent alumni will dare to speak "honestly" about it. A few years ago when i attended my MBA interview, in fact I asked the similar question about placement knowing my age and overall profile. The answer was honest. I've high regards for that admission committee member (don't ask for the names). The answer was "If you are looking for immediate benefit or return from your MBA. This school is not for you. You should not accept our offer. In admission committee opinion, you'll gain immensely from MBA in next 5-10 years. That's the reason we decided to interview you". This was told when I was 35 years old already having double masters and working as a middle manager.
2- In recent years, a number of banks, MNCs moved their operations and regional headquarters to Singapore. It used to be a good place to be for post-MBA career. But recent change in attitude of local population, "who knows" visa approval policy has made it difficult for foreign graduates. A number of Indian/IT/NUS MBAs had to go back to India. Some how it is reflected good on NUS MBA ranking as it's translated as international mobility. Some banks/MNCs are relocating their operations from Singapore: non-core to India/China/Vietnam while core back to home.
3- A number of my colleagues went to St Gallen (dual MBA with NTU in 2008 and 2010). None found a job in Switzerland. You have only 6 months to find a job. All came back to Singapore (They were Singaporean)
4- I regularly meet some IMD alumni due to personal/professional connections. Most accepted Indians (and others from 3rd world countries) would either have dual nationality or EU residency. A school which boasts it's 90 candidates doesn't dare to take any risk. Imagine spending CHF 120,000 and being from a poor/3rd world country without backup plan.
5- For LBS, you know it so I would not repeat it.
6- English speaking ESSEC grads used to come to Singapore and get jobs easily during good years (2009-2011). I'm not aware whether they can still find jobs easily or not.
7- Middle east is a "good" place for MBAs. But again starting salary would depend on many factors. INSEAD and LBS have their EMBA programs there. You'll also need to compete with other Arabic speaking MBAs.

Following would be my conclusion
1- If you're doing MBA for personal growth, just toss a coin and pick one. You've already done the analysis
2-If you're basing your decision on placement, it's difficult to get information with evidence. Recent alumni will not tell you anything.
3- From my observation (and opinion), you passport and residency will play an important part if you're going for relatively unknown employers.
4- If you are accepted by large banks, big named MNCs and Management Consultancies, visa will not be a problem. But as you mentioned, it will also depend on your networking and past experience. So school placement effort hardly matters here
5- If you are not taking big loan for MBA, don't worry and take a plunge. Don't bet on school's placement service. Even schools like INSEAD can only help 51% of the students. I'm not sure if such figures are available for your dream schools.

From your previous posts, it appears you're based in Singapore. I'm not sure whether you're a Singaporean, PR or just an EP holder. I regularly visit Singapore and aware of current dynamics of employment situation i.e. tightening of criteria of EP, sentiments against foreigners, job relocation, cost of living and other related issues.
If you're a Singaporean (or have lived in Singapore for long) and have researched employment reports of INSEAD and IMD, you'll be aware of perks of carrying a Singapore passport in terms of school acceptance and post-MBA employment. If you are/were a scholar, the admission and post-MBA career should be walk in the park.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 18 Jan 2013, 23:02
Thank you so much once again for your indepth answers

gmatmbatroll wrote:
career/placement service : - schools also play with it make career service highlight of their program.

--: Yeah, I know how these schools creatively hides most of the information and claims wonderful placement records. Claims a 2006 stats as recent. Merge few years stats, talks about recent employer but never clearly says employer of 2012 batch and so on!! The height of mockery is "stats is for 85% of the students"!!


1- If you are "too" talented, admission in MBA and placement is not a problem. You can go to top 10 schools in US like Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, MIT,....with scholarship. You would not look at INSEAD, LBS, IMD.

--: Before the talent question comes, I am OLD!! I do not want a certificate course or part time course. For me, MBA is all about interaction and mutual learning in the class. Most of the schools tells me in "one to one" that I am good but I am OLD for a full time MBA programme!!


1- The full impact of changes in UK visa policies is not known. A number of English speaking graduates used to head UK. The available career reports are from 2011. May be it will be another 2-3 years before we can know "with evidence" that what's going on. I really doubt that any current student/recent alumni will dare to speak "honestly" about it.

--: You are 'spot on' on this. Not many will ever believe it though!! Many people fail to understand the issue beyond the surface. Not many knows the internal approval process and red tapism for such an approval.

A few years ago when i attended my MBA interview, in fact I asked the similar question about placement knowing my age and overall profile. The answer was honest. I've high regards for that admission committee member (don't ask for the names). The answer was "If you are looking for immediate benefit or return from your MBA. This school is not for you. You should not accept our offer. In admission committee opinion, you'll gain immensely from MBA in next 5-10 years. That's the reason we decided to interview you". This was told when I was 35 years old already having double masters and working as a middle manager.

--: I am in a similar boat and the only difference is, prior to 2008, if you are good, energetic and keep on trying ... there were jobs!! Now the issue is, there is very very few jobs!! Now, you need something extra than your own effort!! I am trying to assess which school offers that extra support.

2- In recent years, a number of banks, MNCs moved their operations and regional headquarters to Singapore. It used to be a good place to be for post-MBA career. But recent change in attitude of local population, "who knows" visa approval policy has made it difficult for foreign graduates. A number of Indian/IT/NUS MBAs had to go back to India. Some how it is reflected good on NUS MBA ranking as it's translated as international mobility. Some banks/MNCs are relocating their operations from Singapore: non-core to India/China/Vietnam while core back to home.

--: As you know, I am from Singapore and hence I know the 3 unis quite closely and also INSEAD. It does not align to my objective. I had interns from all the three unis!! Be assured that I have carefully narrowed down to my schools.


4- I regularly meet some IMD alumni due to personal/professional connections. Most accepted Indians (and others from 3rd world countries) would either have dual nationality or EU residency. A school which boasts it's 90 candidates doesn't dare to take any risk. Imagine spending CHF 120,000 and being from a poor/3rd world country without backup plan.

--: Agree


Following would be my conclusion
1- If you're doing MBA for personal growth, just toss a coin and pick one. You've already done the analysis

--: I will ask my kid to pick up one for me ..)

2-If you're basing your decision on placement, it's difficult to get information with evidence. Recent alumni will not tell you anything.

--: Once again so True, you get some information but not really enough to be conclusive.

5- If you are not taking big loan for MBA, don't worry and take a plunge. Don't bet on school's placement service. Even schools like INSEAD can only help 51% of the students. I'm not sure if such figures are available for your dream schools.

--: Classic!! This is so true and most of the prospective students never understand this. Half of the placements that school boasts about are just personal effort and school has absolutely no contribution to be blunt. Unfortunately, we do not have that kind of visibility from outside and current students/alumni are equally clueless.

From your previous posts, it appears you're based in Singapore. I'm not sure whether you're a Singaporean, PR or just an EP holder. I regularly visit Singapore and aware of current dynamics of employment situation i.e. tightening of criteria of EP, sentiments against foreigners, job relocation, cost of living and other related issues.
If you're a Singaporean (or have lived in Singapore for long) and have researched employment reports of INSEAD and IMD, you'll be aware of perks of carrying a Singapore passport in terms of school acceptance and post-MBA employment. If you are/were a scholar, the admission and post-MBA career should be walk in the park.

I am not a Singaporean but I have the privilege to be a Singaporean quite easily. I know it will immediately opens up so many wonderful doors for me. But I don't want to change my citizenship. Logically it does not make any sense but it's my personal choice!! The good part is, I am eligible to work in Singapore anytime!!



Thank you so much and it is so insightful. Sometime it feels that I am talking to myself!!

May I request you to kindly share your thoughts about the two points also?

Thank you so much and I owe you a coffee. I would be delighted to meet you in Singapore in your next visit. I am stationed at the airport and can meet up during the day time any weekdays. Just send me a PM and we will coordinate.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2013, 00:48
This post is enlightening.
GMATMBAtroll, Seriously man you can become an Admissions Consultant.
You know a lot more than the admission consultant guys on forums doing advertising 24 * 7.

What are your opinion on Germany and France B Schools in terms of placements?
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2013, 07:51
AbhiJ wrote:
GMATMBAtroll, Seriously man you can become an Admissions Consultant.
You know a lot more than the admission consultant guys on forums doing advertising 24 * 7.


Why are you breaking the rice bowl of those poor Admissions Consultant? Let them have their living!!
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2013, 09:08
wouldbecrazy wrote:
AbhiJ wrote:
GMATMBAtroll, Seriously man you can become an Admissions Consultant.
You know a lot more than the admission consultant guys on forums doing advertising 24 * 7.


Why are you breaking the rice bowl of those poor Admissions Consultant? Let them have their living!!


Man you are funny as hell. Loved your Dina-sour probability example which you used to counter argument someone who was throwing 90% employment stats as some rule. Donot mean to hurt someones employment. However lot of lies/half-truths/subtle advertising goes on MBA fora which someday hope to expose.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 19 Jan 2013, 21:11
AbhiJ wrote:
However lot of lies/half-truths/subtle advertising goes on MBA fora which someday hope to expose.



Good that you realised that. Unfortunately, most of the people never understand the dark sides. As Troll said in one thread "Well, you'll just need to learn to live with buyers remorse." But before repenting your decision, it is better to do a bit of leg work and try to make a better decision. Right information also available, we just need to be smart enough to separate out motivated information from facts!!

As Warwick MBA says, it's a JUNGLE!!
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2013, 03:38
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I'm a troll :P I cannot do my act If I were an admission consultant.
I've no clue about placement of German and French business schools except INSEAD and ESSEC. Any decent school will have the courage to share it's career report. You can get all the information that you need from such reports provided
1- You know date calculations to find out how stale that report is
2- You know how to read between the lines
3- You have read How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff

In my opinion, recent inclusion of IR section in GMAT is to equip future MBAs with necessary skill to decode career reports.

Last edited by gmatmbatroll on 20 Jan 2013, 04:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2013, 03:53
@wouldbecrazy

1. Do you feel that the additional 6 months window in MBS will help in any way to get a job?
>>> That is difficult to answer. You can have job offer after 6 months into your studies or may be on the last day of your visa expiry. Nobody will know. This is only applicable if you are looking for job in UK. If you're willing to move to any other place, it should not matter. In uncertain business world of today, anything can happen. Instead, you should have a backup/alternative plan in case you cannot secure a job in UK.

2. Do you feel that the internship in MBS may land you in a job?
>>> Internship will definitely help if you are changing your career but it is not guarantee. Mostly, it's true for consulting and banking. In my case, it was my post grad in Systems Engineering (Operations Research) which opened the door in General Management and MBA pushed me up the ranks. You'll need to assess based on your profile whether you really need internship for position in GM.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 20 Jan 2013, 05:43
gmatmbatroll wrote:
@wouldbecrazy

1. Do you feel that the additional 6 months window in MBS will help in any way to get a job?
>>> That is difficult to answer. You can have job offer after 6 months into your studies or may be on the last day of your visa expiry. Nobody will know. This is only applicable if you are looking for job in UK. If you're willing to move to any other place, it should not matter. In uncertain business world of today, anything can happen. Instead, you should have a backup/alternative plan in case you cannot secure a job in UK.

2. Do you feel that the internship in MBS may land you in a job?
>>> Internship will definitely help if you are changing your career but it is not guarantee. Mostly, it's true for consulting and banking. In my case, it was my post grad in Systems Engineering (Operations Research) which opened the door in General Management and MBA pushed me up the ranks. You'll need to assess based on your profile whether you really need internship for position in GM.


Thank you so much for your insightful and matured approach. I believe my decision is now reinforced and VALIDATED. I will go ahead with that. When I have taken a decision, I do not look back and repent. Life does not have a reverse button!!

I truly appreciate your sharing and I look forward to meet you sometime. Anytime you feel free to meet me, do send me a PM and we will coordinate accordingly.

A BIG THANK YOU

NB: Please do not ask me what is my final decision. I will never reveal that as that will not be fair to one school.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 21 Jan 2013, 06:12
Sure.

wouldbecrazy wrote:
gmatmbatroll wrote:
@wouldbecrazy
I truly appreciate your sharing and I look forward to meet you sometime. Anytime you feel free to meet me, do send me a PM and we will coordinate accordingly.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 21 Jan 2013, 19:29
Thank you everyone, who shared their views. I must specially thank to Troll and the two wonderful guys who chosen to interact in private. The truly insightful discussion opened many new dimensions and it helped me to make my mind.

The most important and crucial part was how does the placement happens in reality. It was an eye opener for me. Ofcourse I did not expected campus interviews but I had no ideas about various avenues, their timing, their process and their success rate. After knowing the entire process, I am a bit at ease with the placement issue. I might have been paranoid about placement!!

Thank you everyone.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 22 Jan 2013, 07:54
If possible, it will be good if you can share your insight that you have gotten related to placement. There will plenty others who would want to know this information but will not have to courage to ask.

wouldbecrazy wrote:

The most important and crucial part was how does the placement happens in reality. It was an eye opener for me. Ofcourse I did not expected campus interviews but I had no ideas about various avenues, their timing, their process and their success rate. After knowing the entire process, I am a bit at ease with the placement issue. I might have been paranoid about placement!!

Thank you everyone.
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Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2013, 00:34
gmatmbatroll wrote:
If possible, it will be good if you can share your insight that you have gotten related to placement. There will plenty others who would want to know this information but will not have to courage to ask.

wouldbecrazy wrote:

The most important and crucial part was how does the placement happens in reality. It was an eye opener for me. Ofcourse I did not expected campus interviews but I had no ideas about various avenues, their timing, their process and their success rate. After knowing the entire process, I am a bit at ease with the placement issue. I might have been paranoid about placement!!

Thank you everyone.


Placement is a multi pronged approach and it is not dependent on total time but depends on TIMING. So a 18 month will not add any additional benefit. However, 3 internships in MBS is definitely a plus. But all the internships are not truly guaranteed, you have to fight for that too and there is a possibility that you may not get all 3 internships.
Re: Cranfield or Manchester Full Time MBA --- need your help   [#permalink] 21 Feb 2013, 00:34
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