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Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools

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Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2008, 20:06
Shameless plug, I know. But our new dean is definitely ambitious... With more funding and the ability to expand the faculty, Haas should continue its strong showing in the rankings over the next few years.

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco ... 1218427200^1681961

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For his part, Lyons said he realizes he has a big job ahead.

"We are competing with some great schools, so winning in this marketplace, in this 'industry,' if you will, is pretty tough. But we are up to the challenge."

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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 06:33
Interesting. But, is there a clear top 5?
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 06:45
M7 + Tuck already dominate the top 8.

It will be tough for HAAS to get into top 5 because many highly accomplished applicants are looking to move into or stay in the big money finance careers (IB/PE/VC) and Haas isn't necessarily known for placing into those industries -- maybe some in VC because of the location. NY and Boston are still the big finance cities and east coast schools clearly have an advantage there.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 06:54
for your information, the so-called "M7" only happened recently. Only a few years ago, Chicago GSB was actually ranked in the low top 10s for a while, and currently Columbia is consistently ranked pretty low.

Other than stalwarts like Harvard, Wharton, MIT, and Kellogg, even Stanford wasn't regarded that highly back in the 90s.

Things change, and we shall see in time how Haas does.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 08:21
To add to that LBS ex-dean Laura Tyson, who took LBS to top5 in many rankings is now back at Haas. I bet the Haas dean is picking her brains.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 08:37
Honestly, I feel it's unrealistic, at least if you're speaking of the USNews rankings. If you're talking about Forbes, WSJ, or whatever else, then yeah it's definitely a possibility because those are all over the map. These kinds of articles/press releases come out all the time and every school is fighting to move up in the rankings.

For USNews, I don't see H/S/W moving out of the top 3. The competition to fill out the top 5 is stiff, and I don't think Chicago, Kellogg, or MIT are going anywhere either. MIT and Kellogg are both in the process of building brand new facilities, which are currently weak points in their respective programs. Chicago has seen a huge climb in the rankings and it continues to be a favorite school among many applicants.

I think Haas will stay in the top 10, but thinking that it has a shot of moving into the top 5, at least within the next decade, is unrealistic. Beyond the next decade - your guess is as good as mine.

Out of the top 10 programs, I would say that Haas, MIT, Columbia, and Tuck seem to have a little bit more self-selecting applicant pool. H/S/W and Chicago/Kellogg draw applications from people all over the map. There are a lot more people from the West Coast applying to H/W and Chicago/Kellogg than there are people from the East Coast applying to Haas.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 08:48
terp06 wrote:
Honestly, I feel it's unrealistic, Well, since you feel that way I guess Haas should just scrap any plan they've made to accomplish this unrealistic goal.at least if you're speaking of the USNews rankings. If you're talking about Forbes, WSJ, or whatever else, then yeah it's definitely a possibility because those are all over the map.

For USNews, I don't see H/S/W moving out of the top 3These schools don't have to move out of the top 3 for Haas to get into the top 5. Basic math 5 -3 = 2 spots into which Haas could move and still be in the top 5.. The competition to fill out the top 5 is stiffSo is getting into Harvard, Yale, Kellogg, Chicago, etc....does that mean you're not going to try? Because something is difficult is never a reason to not try. Please, if you give up that easily, or don't even begin, roll over and die now because the world is going to eat you alive and rolling over and dying would be less painful than being eaten alive., and I don't think Chicago, Kellogg, or MIT are going anywhere either. MIT and Kellogg are both in the process of building brand new facilities, which are currently weak points in their respective programs. Chicago has seen a huge climb in the rankings But I thought climbing over other schools was unrealistic, difficult, stiff due to competition? I guess Chicago is just unique in that respect and Haas could never do the same. and it continues to be a favorite school among many applicants.

I think Haas will stay in the top 10Good, top 5 is in the top 10, I guess you agree then?, but thinking that it has a shot of moving into the top 5, at least within the next decade, is unrealistic . Beyond the next decade - your guess is as good as mine.

Out of the top 10 programs, I would say that Haas, MIT, Columbia, and Tuck seem to have a little bit more self-selecting applicant pool. H/S/W and Chicago/Kellogg draw applications from people all over the map. There are a lot more people from the West Coast applying to H/W and Chicago/Kellogg than there are people from the East Coast applying to Haas/UCLA.I'm sorry, I really don't understand what conclusion this final sentence supports. Can you clarify? it supposed to mean that people on the west coast should already be in the practice of applying to Haas for it to have a shot at becoming a top 5 school?


Under what experience, authority, or even just general knowledge gives you credibility to say these things?
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 08:54
I did not say that Haas has absolutely no shot, and they should just give up now and not even try. Every school is always trying to outdo each other and that's what this game is all about. I just don't agree with the article's overly optimistic tone.

The article states:

Routinely rated among the top 10 business schools in America, the Haas School of Business at the University of California, Berkeley, should be able to ascend into the stratospheric top five, according to its new dean.


I don't agree with the terminology "should be able to". I think the chances of this happening are about 10-20% at the most. The odds of this happening are similar to me sending an e-mail to all of my friends proclaiming that I "should be able to" get into HBS this year - simply foolish. They did leave themselves a pretty nice out, by not mentioning any sort of timelines for when this "should happen". He could be claiming that they "should be able to" move into the top 10 within the next century, but we will never know.

This forum is not a place for credible experts to provide their professional advice. It's for applicants and students to informally share and discuss their personal opinions - something which I just did.

Lastly, I just wanted to ask a question that I'm not sure about - has a public school ever been in the top 5 in USNews? How about even BusinessWeek?
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 09:38
I totally agree with Ari Gold. Maybe Haas can reach top spots in BW or FT, but US News (the rankings generally given the most credibility) relies on prestige a lot and I just don't see Haas moving top 5 in prestige (or in overall rankings) anytime soon.

Of course there is always a shot, but I wouldn't count on it.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 18:11
wow... that's quite a bit of anti-Haas sentiment here. :)

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I posted the link (which is OBVIOUSLY a pro-Haas article, thus the "overly" positive tone) to show that Haas is making a commitment to get into the top 5. Whether they will succeed or not depends on a lot of factors, many of which are not in their control. Even if they don't make it, the effort they put into climbing the rankings by hiring more top professors, building new facilities, revamping their curriculum, improving their career services, and marketing their brand WILL benefit students and alums of Haas.

as for terp06 and sonibubu, not sure where your surefooted opinions come from, but one only has to look at the US News rankings over the last 15 years here:

103-t62015

to see that Chicago GSB is only solidly in the "top 5" (however you want to define that, since H/S/W, MIT and Kellogg have been perennials) since as recent as 2006. Before that it hovered in the #6-9 range (except for 1997).
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 18:14
terp06 wrote:
Lastly, I just wanted to ask a question that I'm not sure about - has a public school ever been in the top 5 in USNews? How about even BusinessWeek?


According to the same link, Michigan once hit #2 and Darden hit #5 on BW. On US News, no, Haas is the highest with #6 some time in the far past...
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 19:48
I don't think it's anti-Haas at all, rather it's more pro-the other top-5, or 7-8, schools that are ranked higher. I also happen to agree with the sentiment that it will be tough to climb over those schools. However, I recognize that I have no authority on this matter. I only wish that they had a better reputation and placement in finance, otherwise I would apply there for sure.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 20:27
Not anti-Haas at all here either. I think it's a great school, in the group just below M7 + Tuck which includes NYU and Ross. I'm also just saying it will be a tough road ahead. I can certainly see Haas maintaining a perennial top 10 spot, however.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 28 Aug 2008, 21:24
fair enough. I guess everyone's perceptions of "brand" and "rank" are different. Realistically, I see Haas in the same group as Tuck/Columbia, as the third "triad" of the top 10 (H/S/W, MIT/Chi/Kellogg, Haas/Tuck/Columbia). :)
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 05:35
I'm definitively not an expert in terms of ranking, but if what Kryzak says is true about Chicago and Stanford, I really don't see why Haas couldn't do it, especially if they have the money. It's a long term project - I reckon 10 years is a minimum - but I don't see why it shouldn't be doable. It's obviously going to be hard work, but everybody knows that.

Like in any market, if you fail to constantly put yourself into question and adapt yourself to a new environment, you will fail; if there's one thing corporate history has taught us, it's that.

To continue on that point of view, I reckon that if Chicago continues its progress, the 3rd spot owned by Wharton could be accessible in the mid / long term (I mostly chose Wharton because of reputation, but Chicago was a VERY attractive option)
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 05:38
Mine aren't necessarily triads:

H/S/W, Chi/K/MIT/Col, Tuck, Haas/NYU/Ross, Darden/Duke/Yale/UCLA
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 07:46
sonibubu wrote:
Mine aren't necessarily triads:

H/S/W, Chi/K/MIT/Col, Tuck, Haas/NYU/Ross, Darden/Duke/Yale/UCLA


Not surprisingly, this is how I look at things as well.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 08:34
sonibubu wrote:
Mine aren't necessarily triads:

H/S/W, Chi/K/MIT/Col, Tuck, Haas/NYU/Ross, Darden/Duke/Yale/UCLA


No Cornell?

I've never seen a ranking where they aren't top 15
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 09:04
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
sonibubu wrote:
Mine aren't necessarily triads:

H/S/W, Chi/K/MIT/Col, Tuck, Haas/NYU/Ross, Darden/Duke/Yale/UCLA


No Cornell?

I've never seen a ranking where they aren't top 15


I think Cornell was 16th in US News last year or the year before. Still, I agree that they belong among these schools. If anything, Yale is just recently become a regular member of this grouping. In fact, a good argument could be made that, based on rankings history, Yale still has some way to go before they should be considered with this group. BW currently has them at 19th and they have only been ranked in the top 15 (14th in 2002) once in the past 20 years, with 20th through unranked being most common. They have made certain strides in recent years (by recent I mean really recent as in the last year or two) by reducing class size thereby increasing selectivity, however the proof will be in the pudding - an the pudding is still in the oven. We'll probably know in 10 years whether Yale has solidified their place among the top group.

Therein really lies the challenge to real movement in rankings, be it Yale or Haas (both super-heavyweights in the academic world). It will take 10 or 20 years for grads to get out into the business world to make their marks where they will become business leaders and decision makers. For purposes of business school rankings, this translates into money in the form of contributions, opportunities for current students with alumni in position for hiring and promotion (extremely important), as well as things like prominent alumni guest speakers, experts to teach specialized classes and things like that. I look at Tuck as a great case study. They have an extremely tight network and a long history near the top of business school rankings - this results in job opportunities as reflected in high salaries (highest overall I think) as well as an extremely solid reputation. The flip side is that they are small, so there's simply not as many people in prominent positions; as a result they are highly respected but not quite able to break into the ultra-elites.

Is Haas going to leapfrog Tuck (not to mention a bunch of other schools) to get into the top 5, however that is defined? I don't see it. Haas' efforts to climb the rankings are only half the story; are they doing more than schools they are trying to pass? My opinion is that they have to grow substantially to really challenge the ultra-elite schools. Given their location (Bay Area is a favorite among young professionals and California obviously has lots of people), there's no reason why Haas shouldn't be as big as Chicago and Kellogg; and of course this would eventually lead to more alumni in prominent positions. Can Haas double in size while maintaining selectivity, programs, connections and such? I think there's a chance given their prime location, but the physical space they currently occupy definitely has challenges. A lot of other top schools have included a major building project as part of their secret sauce, and I think Haas probably needs to do this to really make a play for top 5 or whatever. I think it will definitely take a while.
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Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools [#permalink] New post 29 Aug 2008, 09:17
kryzak wrote:
fair enough. I guess everyone's perceptions of "brand" and "rank" are different. Realistically, I see Haas in the same group as Tuck/Columbia, as the third "triad" of the top 10 (H/S/W, MIT/Chi/Kellogg, Haas/Tuck/Columbia). :)


I agree with Kry's three triad assessment based on my general perception.

The connection to and opportunities within NYC is what I think keeps Columbia "ahead of" Tuck in most people's mind, and rightfully so. However, prestige wise, I think I would have Tuck above both Haas and Columbia. Just my unqualified opinion on the matter. :wink:
Re: Dean Aims to put Haas in Top 5 Business Schools   [#permalink] 29 Aug 2008, 09:17
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