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Intern
Intern
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 28
Own Kudos [?]: 206 [0]
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 Q48  V20 GMAT 2: 610  Q49  V23
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Joined: 27 Jan 2013
Posts: 257
Own Kudos [?]: 627 [0]
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GMAT 1: 760 Q47 V48
GMAT 2: 770 Q49 V47
GMAT 3: 780 Q49 V51
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Senior Manager
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 484
Own Kudos [?]: 2334 [2]
Given Kudos: 36
GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V43
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Posts: 484
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Disappointed but no retake. biased GMAT [#permalink]
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HerrGrau wrote:
Oh - and there's so much of this "I scored a 740 after 30 days of studying" nonsense that distorts how people feel about themselves and their achievements. In my experience, really smart people are working extremely hard to achieve 700+ scores. Not 730, 740, 750... but 700. And that's with a tutor helping. Are there a handful of people getting terrific GMAT scores with very little work? Sure. But they are far and away the exception. I know that it's tough to do, but try not to use the GMAT marketing hype as a point of comparison.

Happy Studies,

A.


There are thousand of students who have better knowledge and sharper brains than the so called trainers.
Gmatclub is full of examples of such students who can give many tutor a run for their money and many others who can surpass the tutors in terms of intellectual capabilities... so don't be so judgemental and biased about people who have scored 740 plus after 30 days of preparation (I have not seen anyone making such a claim though atleast here in GMATCLUB, so i am going to take your intense dislike for self tutored people who scored 700+ with a grain of salt). In my opinion the only things tutors do is to practice (knowingly and unknowingly) thousand of questions , since their livelihood depends on being able to answer questions....well its no wonder if a guy whose livelihood is to know answers of a question is a little fast in solving questions than an average student.

Another interesting phenomenon is the eagerness of the tutors to answer the question of a new user who had posted 1 or 2 posts mostly in guise of luring the new user to hire that particular tutor (yeah you know who you people are !!) But if the same user does not hires any of these tutors and then later he gains proficiency after 2 - 3 months , then you can see the attitude of the tutors towards his queries .. I am yet to see a professional tutor being eager to post a reply to user's question who has 300 - 400 post under his belt. I am not claiming any of this on imagination. Gmat club is a open forum and anyone can check the existing posts and run a test for himself to see the blatant eagerness on part of tutors to answer the first 10 posts of a new user. I mean its so obvious that one don't need to be a rocket scientist to see whats going on .... People have and people will continue to succeed without spoon feeding from tutors.

I am all for people earning a living but I am appalled to see such a crass statement and that from a tutor - a statement that reeks of intellectual superiority and assumes that no student is worthy enough on its own.
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Joined: 27 Mar 2016
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GMAT 1: 770 Q51 V44
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Disappointed but no retake. biased GMAT [#permalink]
LogicGuru1 wrote:
In my opinion the only things tutors do is to practice (knowingly and unknowingly) thousand of questions , since their livelihood depends on being able to answer questions....well its no wonder if a guy whose livelihood is to know answers of a question is a little fast in solving questions than an average student.


For someone that has never studied with a tutor, you have a surprisingly strong opinion. Without even going into what a tutor can do for a student, I would like to establish that a tutor is not just a "little fast" in solving questions than an average student. A tutor's score averages in the 700's, whereas an average student scores around 550.

Your particular approach to the GMAT worked as you spent 1,000 hours on the test and were able to study for the test full-time. That you succeeded by following your plan does not mean that that plan works for everyone, or even that it works for very many students. I know very few people that can afford to spend 1,000 hours on an exam. If you work in the US, a work hour is worth about $20, and way more if you work in a high-paying industry. So 1,000 hours equal around $20,000 in opportunity cost. If hiring a tutor at $200/hour for 20 hours helps someone cut down the number of hours spent by 50%, this person comes out way ahead (by $6,000 to be specific). I don't know what opportunity costs for students in India look like, but you can easily work out a similar equation.

I realize this discussion is off-topic though, so I'm going to stop here. Apologies to the OP.
Senior Manager
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Joined: 04 Jun 2016
Posts: 484
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GMAT 1: 750 Q49 V43
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Re: Disappointed but no retake. biased GMAT [#permalink]
HiLine wrote:
For someone that has never studied with a tutor, you have a surprisingly strong opinion. Without even going into what a tutor can do for a student, I would like to establish that a tutor is not just a "little fast" in solving questions than an average student. A tutor's score averages in the 700's, whereas an average student scores around 550.


I totally apologize for such strong beliefs IF they have cause a grievance to any person. I come from a cultures where (believe it or not) were a law was passed in 1990's and teachers were jailed for private tuition and this instilled a environment of really hard working school teachers and the end of private tutor era in my country. So yes I might have a strong opinion for private tutors. But's thats only because I have been blessed enough to learn from some of very intelligent and passionate teachers in my school.

HiLine wrote:
LogicGuru1 wrote:
If you work in the US, a work hour is worth about $20, and way more if you work in a high-paying industry. So 1,000 hours equal around $20,000 in opportunity cost.


Well, I guess that I am lucky that I don't live in US.
Given the fact that a large chunk of GMAT toppers is increasingly coming from Asian countries (It's a different thing whether or not all of them are being accepted in top B schools) , I am forced to infer that either the traditionally strong and excellent US education system or the US tutors are not producing bright enough students in the current climate. No offense to any education system or any tutor. This is just pure inference.

I am all for private tutors for people who can afford and benefit from them. But the gist of my post was that working smart, working hard and self inspired dedication are as important as good teaching staff.

Hope I made myself more clear. :)
PEACE
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Re: Disappointed but no retake. biased GMAT [#permalink]
LogicGuru1 wrote:
With due respect, I disagree totally with your post.

If one knows how to deconstruct an argument then solving CR is easier than peeling a banana or drinking a glass of water.



Every time I think not to comment on this particular thread. A statement like the one above makes me post again.

Really man, Are u serious ? Pl have some decency in making such kind of statements. My overall verbal score may be bad but I score on top of 80% in CRs and I get one or two arguments in each test, in which I believe I can learn more.

May be I can make a genuine request. I challenge you in this forum, Pl teach me skills how to take my CR scores from 80% to 100%. Then I will accept all the things you said.

Your comment on tutors is very unfortunate. But you have clarified that above. So no more discussion needed.

HiLine was trying to teach you a concept called opportunity cost in simple english and giving tutor example. But you fail to see his argument and intention. Have some open mind to let the ideas come in. I pray for you.

Regards

South City
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Disappointed but no retake. biased GMAT [#permalink]
SouthCity wrote:

May be I can make a genuine request. I challenge you in this forum, Pl teach me skills how to take my CR scores from 80% to 100%. Then I will accept all the things you said.



Let me start this post by saying that I was not even addressing you. My post is in response to awal_786@hotmail.com who started this post, rest of the first 15 post are then a conversation of another user called @illaviko and HanoiGMATtutor. To be frank I didn't even realized that you have posted in this thread. So no need to feel offended because my post does not concern you.

Although it seemed that you disliked my entire post you chose to quote only one section (infact a few lines about CR). Again, I am not interested in judging your CR capabilities. But yes If you believe in tough love and self improvisation, then do read my post again and again with a cool head until you see the point I was trying to drive into the self loathers or blamers or plain lazy people some of them thanking me in my inbox about not sugarcoating the reality and calling a spade what it is - A SPADE !!

The oceans offer billions of liter of water, the sun provides billion megawatts of energy every day.
If we as human being are unable to make use of these seemingly infinite resources, then the fault lie within us.

If you think, I or any other tutor can make you go from 84 to 100 percent in CR then I have nothing more to add.
Yes ! CR is easier than peeling a banana. In fact everything is as tough or easy as you see it.
If Wright brothers have given up their design saying its too tough to fly or Thomas Edison had given up after testing thousand elements for his bulb's filaments proclaiming that no material is suitable for bulbs, then SOME OTHER PERSON would have invented the exact same things. If you cannot go from V24,V26 to V41,V44 then it's no water off mt skin .. someone else will.

Since you have a high opinion of tutors and apparently a beaming pride that your CR skills are 80 % therefore firstly congrats of your 80% CR score and secondly you are most welcome to use all the tutors that you like in the world and deep down i sincerely pray you get a verbal V48. Unfortunately I am not here to duel with you or be your personal tutor. There are many more qualified and learned scholars who are more apt than me in the task of teaching you, guiding you and making you attain the success that want. I can only wish you high success in your gmat journey

Those are my best wished for you my dear friend.
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