Find all School-related info fast with the new School-Specific MBA Forum

It is currently 20 Aug 2014, 22:31

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Events & Promotions

Events & Promotions in June
Open Detailed Calendar

EDIT by Praet: thanks mayur,gmatblast. great work. i

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  
Author Message
TAGS:
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 295
Location: US
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
EDIT by Praet: thanks mayur,gmatblast. great work. i  [#permalink] New post 18 May 2004, 11:53
00:00
A
B
C
D
E

Difficulty:

(N/A)

Question Stats:

0% (00:00) correct 0% (00:00) wrong based on 0 sessions
EDIT by Praet: thanks mayur,gmatblast. great work. i request other members to solve these tough problems. Dont always look for gmat type problems. the concepts are more important than gmat type Q's. thanks ndidi for posting the question.


Find the number of (a) combinations and (b) permutations of 4 letters each that can be made from the letters of the word TENNESSEE.
Kaplan GMAT Prep Discount CodesKnewton GMAT Discount CodesManhattan GMAT Discount Codes
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
Posts: 345
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
Re: PS - Tennessee [#permalink] New post 19 May 2004, 10:28
ndidi204 wrote:
Find the number of (a) combinations and (b) permutations of 4 letters each that can be made from the letters of the word TENNESSEE.


with repeating or w/o repeating?

w/ repeating= combination 9C4=9!/4!*5!
Permutation 9P4=9!/5!

W/o Repeating:
combination 4C4=1
Permutation 4P4=4!
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Location: There
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 19 May 2004, 20:28
You are asking to compute combinations based on a multi-set {1.T, 4.E, 2.N, 2.S}, ill-formed question!

You framed this question, didn't you?
Manager
Manager
User avatar
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Florida
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

 [#permalink] New post 20 May 2004, 07:41
Can someone post the solution? I have given this question a lot of thought and I can't figure out how to do it. I know the total number of ways the letter can be arranged.

(9c4)*(5c2)*(3c2)*1=3780 or 9!/(4!*2!*2!)=3780

I can't figure out how many ways there are to arrange these letters into a group of 4 due to the repeating letters. Any thoughts?
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 295
Location: US
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 21 May 2004, 04:57
Nope, I did not frame the question. I found it in a Schaum's Outline algebra book and I couldn't solve it. It wasn't solved in the book either but the answer is listed.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 330
Location: There
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 23 May 2004, 23:06
then the answer to a) would be #integer solutions to x1+x2+x3+x4 = 4, where 0 <= x1 <= 4; 0 <= x2, x3 <= 2; 0 <= x4 <=1

something less than 25
Manager
Manager
avatar
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 87
Location: Valsad
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

 [#permalink] New post 24 May 2004, 01:55
The solution is this: -
There are 9 letters of 4 different sorts: -
TENNESSEE
T – 1; E – 4; N – 2; S – 2

Possibilities: -
Selections: -
1. All the 4 alike
2. 3 Alike, 1 different
3. 2 Alike, 2 Others alike
4. 2 Alike, 2 Others different
5. All the 4 different

Combinations: -

1. There is 1 group that has all the four alike and this can be selected in 1 way. (All Es)
2. 3 Alike can be selected in C(4,3) = 4 Ways (From the 4 Es) and one different can be selected in C(3,1) = 3 ways (from T, N & S). So, 4 X 3 =12 Ways.
3. 2 Alike and 2 others alike can be selected in C(3,2) = 3 Ways (E, N & S)
4. 2 Alike in C(3,1) = 3 Ways and then 2 others from the remaining 3 i.e., C(3,2) = 3 ways. So, 3 X3 = 9 Ways
5. All the 4 different in C(4,4) = 1 way

Total = 1 + 12 + 3 + 9 + 1 = 26 ways

Permutations: -

1. 1 X 4! / 4! = 1 way
2. 12 X 4! / 3! = 48 Ways
3. 3 X 4! / (2! X 2!) = 12 Ways
4. 9 X 4! / 2! = 108 Ways
5. 1 X 4! = 2 Ways

Total = 1 + 48 + 12 + 108 + 2 = 171 Ways
_________________

Mayur

Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Posts: 356
Location: Illinois
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 31 May 2004, 16:36
We have 4 different letters (T, E, N, S) and we can create the combinations of 4 letters in the following ways:

(1) Using only 1 of the 4 letters; the only possibility is using E; So the possible combination is EEEE

(2) Using only 2 of the 4 letters; list down the possibilities in systematic way.

--Try to find the combinations using T & E only, T & N only, T & S only, E & N only, E & S only, and N & S only. (Total 6 combinations will result)

(3) Using only 3 of the 4 letters; list down the possibilities in systematic way.

-- Try to list the combinations using T, E & N only, T , E & S only, E, N & S only, T, N & S only. (There will be 8 combinations)

(4) Using all the 4 letters. Only one is possible.

Total combinations = 17

Total permutations = 9! / (1! * 4! * 2! * 2!) = 3780
Manager
Manager
avatar
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 87
Location: Valsad
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

 [#permalink] New post 01 Jun 2004, 09:49
gmatblast,
In fact, I goofed up. I agree that the total no. of selections is 17 as follows: -
There are 9 letters of 4 different sorts: -
TENNESSEE
T – 1; E – 4; N – 2; S – 2

Possibilities: -
Selections: -
1. All the 4 alike
2. 3 Alike, 1 different
3. 2 Alike, 2 Others alike
4. 2 Alike, 2 Others different
5. All the 4 different

Combinations: -

1. There is 1 group that has all the four alike and this can be selected in 1 way. (All Es)
2. 3 Alike can be selected in 1 Way (From the 4 Es) and one different can be selected in C(3,1) = 3 ways (from T, N & S). So, 1 X 3 =3 Ways.
3. 2 Alike and 2 others alike can be selected in C(3,2) = 3 Ways (E, N & S)
4. 2 Alike in C(3,1) = 3 Ways and then 2 others from the remaining 3 i.e., C(3,2) = 3 ways. So, 3 X3 = 9 Ways
5. All the 4 different in C(4,4) = 1 way

Total = 1 + 3 + 3 + 9 + 1 = 17 ways

Permutations: -

1. 1 X 4! / 4! = 1 way
2. 3 X 4! / 3! = 12 Ways
3. 3 X 4! / (2! X 2!) = 18 Ways
4. 9 X 4! / 2! = 108 Ways
5. 1 X 4! = 24 Ways

Total = 1 + 12 + 18 + 108 + 24 = 163 Ways


The problem asks for permutations of 4 lettered words. Hence, we have to use the above method. The solution you gave is for the permutation of all the letters, i.e., 9 letters.


In fact, I posted a similar problem with the word "PROPORTION" on May 18 and posted the answer on May 19 2004.


ndidi204,
Please let us know the answer.
_________________

Mayur

Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 295
Location: US
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 02 Jun 2004, 11:33
Hey Mayur, I'll do so before the end of the day. I don't currently have the book.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 295
Location: US
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2004, 04:06
Mayur, you got it right!!!

# of Combinations = 17
# of Permutations = 163

Good job.
CEO
CEO
avatar
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 3470
Followers: 59

Kudos [?]: 665 [0], given: 781

 [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2004, 23:32
great discussion guys

this is the post of the week.

thanks to all who participated
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 1798
Location: NewJersey USA
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 31 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2004, 07:31
I am getting a different answer for the permutations. I would appreciate some clarifications

chosing 4 letters from TENNESSEE and arranging them can be done in following ways
TEEE = 4!/3! = 4
TEEN = 4!/2! = 12
TEES = 4!/2! = 12
TENN = 4!/2! = 12
TESS = 4!/2! = 12
TENS = 4! = 24
TNNS = 4!/2! = 12
TNSS = 4!/2! = 12
EEEE = 4!/4! = 1
EEEN = 4!/3! = 4
EEES = 4!/3! = 4
EENN = 4!/( 2! 2! ) = 6
EESS = 4!/(2! 2!) = 6
EENS = 4!/2! = 12
NNSS = 4!/(2! 2!) = 6

Total = 139
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
avatar
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 295
Location: US
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2004, 07:40
Anandnk,

You forgot NSSE and SENN

Those should give you the remaining 24 you need.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 1798
Location: NewJersey USA
Followers: 3

Kudos [?]: 31 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2004, 07:42
Yeah you are right. Brute force is not a good method to solve these problems.

139+12+12 = 163
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4318
Followers: 20

Kudos [?]: 155 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2004, 07:52
Anandnk, you forgot NNES and SSEN. There are 17 ways and you have 15 :)
_________________

Best Regards,

Paul

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Posts: 4318
Followers: 20

Kudos [?]: 155 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 09 Jun 2004, 07:53
few minutes two late staring at these from work :?
_________________

Best Regards,

Paul

Manager
Manager
User avatar
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 60
Location: Florida
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 0 [0], given: 0

 [#permalink] New post 14 Jun 2004, 10:04
Can you explain how to convert from combinations to permutations?
Mayur wrote:
The solution is this: -
There are 9 letters of 4 different sorts: -
TENNESSEE
T – 1; E – 4; N – 2; S – 2

Possibilities: -
Selections: -
1. All the 4 alike
2. 3 Alike, 1 different
3. 2 Alike, 2 Others alike
4. 2 Alike, 2 Others different
5. All the 4 different

Combinations: -

1. There is 1 group that has all the four alike and this can be selected in 1 way. (All Es)
2. 3 Alike can be selected in C(4,3) = 4 Ways (From the 4 Es) and one different can be selected in C(3,1) = 3 ways (from T, N & S). So, 4 X 3 =12 Ways.
3. 2 Alike and 2 others alike can be selected in C(3,2) = 3 Ways (E, N & S)
4. 2 Alike in C(3,1) = 3 Ways and then 2 others from the remaining 3 i.e., C(3,2) = 3 ways. So, 3 X3 = 9 Ways
5. All the 4 different in C(4,4) = 1 way

Total = 1 + 12 + 3 + 9 + 1 = 26 ways

Permutations: -

1. 1 X 4! / 4! = 1 way
2. 12 X 4! / 3! = 48 Ways
3. 3 X 4! / (2! X 2!) = 12 Ways
4. 9 X 4! / 2! = 108 Ways
5. 1 X 4! = 2 Ways

Total = 1 + 48 + 12 + 108 + 2 = 171 Ways
Joined: 31 Dec 1969
Location: United States
Concentration: Marketing, Other
GMAT 1: 710 Q49 V38
GMAT 2: 660 Q V
GPA: 3.64
WE: Accounting (Accounting)
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 55 [0], given: 76003

 [#permalink] New post 14 Jun 2004, 19:18
When we select (combinations), we arrange(permutations) them. In the first case, we select all the 4 alike in 1 way and arrange them 4!/4! ways.

Similarly, in the second case, we select in 12 ways and arrange the letters of the word in 4!/3! ways.
Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 445
Location: Cary,NC
Followers: 2

Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 0

GMAT Tests User
 [#permalink] New post 28 Jun 2004, 11:24
maxpowers,
answering too late.....but heres how one converts from npr to ncr and vice versa.

nCr= n!/ (r! * (n-r)! )
nPr= n!/ (n-r)!

clearly nPr = nCr * r!
here r=4
that is why we see all the combinations multiplied by 4!

Now there is a formula that if you have a n items with p,q,r things as groups in them.

nPr = n! / (p!q!r!)

So that's why you see the denominators under the 4!...they are the groups of common letters.

- ash
_________________

ash
________________________
I'm crossing the bridge.........

  [#permalink] 28 Jun 2004, 11:24
    Similar topics Author Replies Last post
Similar
Topics:
Low GPA, great work experience. What do I need to do? estebanr 3 27 Apr 2013, 14:22
3 Experts publish their posts in the topic I just started working on 13th edition.So, all those gmatcracker7 4 07 Mar 2013, 12:53
Great. Thanks for the udate aaudetat 2 18 May 2007, 10:09
I've been working through the PG 10th edition, and came maxpowers 3 23 Feb 2007, 08:47
I've been working through the PG 10th edition, and came maxpowers 0 23 Feb 2007, 08:42
Display posts from previous: Sort by

EDIT by Praet: thanks mayur,gmatblast. great work. i

  Question banks Downloads My Bookmarks Reviews Important topics  


GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Privacy Policy| Terms and Conditions| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group and phpBB SEO

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.