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Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water

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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 10:05
Terp I didnt say everyone running companies had top MBAs...I said their pedigree often included top undergrads or MBA/JDs. You will see lots of people with no advanced degree from top 10 schools at the top. Proportionally they make up far more top folks than others. So if you dont have a top 10 school for your undergrad then going to a top 10 MBA is definitely going to be a HUGE benefit to your career no matter what you do.

As for where companies hire from; businessweek had a breakdown on their site last year where companies hired their MBAs from and I can tell you that I looked carefully at GE's since it is on most GM peoples short list. The schools that sent the most were elites and ultra elites, some schools in the 20+ range send one or two people a year but its hard to say what positions or functions they are going into. Pepsi only recruits at I think 15 schools, and about a quarter of all their MBAs come from just two schools, GSB and Kellogg...and its a safe bet most are in marketing or finance jobs anyways not GM. By the way Stanford grads do go to slow stagnant companies like Pepsi.

Terp you may think MC and IB is for fast risers but its very common for both folks to leave those after a few years because the lifestyle isnt what they want and head into the corporate world. I think you need to realize that there are very few people enter GM after graduation...On the corporate side far more people go into marketing and finance/treasury etc. At top schools 5% or so of students is common for actual GM programs. I know the companies I plan to recruit with wont sit me in an office working for a middle manager. They assign you to senior managers (Often VPs or above, some even assign people as assistants to C-level type folks) to help with major business planning, M&A, project evaluations, etc. Basically you do a lot of the leg work but at the sametime you are under the eye of the people who run the company.

Also if you dont think that schools get looked at thats silly. I can tell you one company I plan to look at recruits from 5 schools (Chicago, Kellogg, Wharton, Haas, and Tuck) Haas is the "regional school" and the CEO is a Tuck alum. To get in you need those brands. Also when it comes to promotions your success does play the biggest part but to get the projects with the high upside they are going to put their best and brightest on it (probably safe to assume they will figure its the guys from the top schools). As Jallen pointed out, the reason companies recruit from top schools is the candidates are prescreened already...people recruiting next year will know that they are getting the to 20% of applicants for any top schools. And most of all the applicants applying are highly accomplished, so they are getting the best of the best.

Whats right for you isnt right for everyone. If IB was the end all be all, everyone would be going for those jobs. Considering the people I met with BBB or PE/HF experience here want to get out that tells me something about it.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 10:09
I don't think kids make such a big difference at the income level we are talking about....
The exemption is $3500 per child, so brining the actual income from 120K to 110K is not gonna change your tax bracket and you will still be left with about 75K per year.

There are other ways to stash the money pre-tax, though.... such as 529, 401K, etc...
I don't see how that money can be used to pay down existing debt, though.

Need a tax accountant here to give us more insight... more maybe a tax law lawyer? :shock:
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 10:16
It's a 28% tax bracket on incomes from $78,851 to $164,550. So $125k becomes $90k. It can be more with the pre-tax stuff like you said. It won't be more "take-home", but it will be acessible later. Also, if I go into IB, 90% of the bonus will go towards debt.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 10:17
Get a job in NH, no income tax, sales tax, pretty much after the feds take their different chunks (income, medicare, social security, etc.) you keep what you have.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 11:17
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Wow, this probably has to be one of the best topics I've ever read on the forum! But people talk about so many issues that it's hard to follow...

Morris, first of all I admire you for being so open and honest about your problems and issues - even though it's an anonymous forum that took some courage).

I won't even try to equal the quality of the previous posts, which are way out of my league - congrats terp, river (even though you 2 disagree), pelihu, etc - but here's a couple of thoughts anyway (sorry if these points have already been mentioned):

Spending time with your family and privileging life quality over money is very respectable (you could almost be European! :-D ). However, I have a hard time believing that an MBA grad, even when he's working in GM (which is supposedly the lightest option in terms of hours), will be working less than 60 hours per week. I might be completely wrong (please correct me if I am), but I don't see a company paying you an MBA salary for a 9 to 5 job. Therefore you have to have a clear vision on the amount of time you are willing to spend at work (more of that below).

Also, I am the kind of person that thinks that an MBA from a school outside the top 20 (and I'm being large here) is pretty much useless. Might as well read the books. Why lose 2 years of your time and money (don't forget to count the salary you won't be earning anymore) for a school with limited possibilities? I don't know OU at all, but if I were you i would seriously inspect the possibilities that the school offers you in terms of employment. I'm not convinced that they will be able to provide you with the type of salary that you would expect after 2 years of inactivity (even with a free ride). But again, I don't know, and it's something you have to seriously look into.

Finally - and probably most importantly - you have to be very clear with yourself and your wife. Choose a path that satisfies both of you, talk about its consequences (in terms of hours, lifestyle, etc) and stick to it. Nobody should be making sacrifices that they aren't ready to make. I think these kind of decisions should be taken very seriously, without over-the-moon expectations (like earning 120k and being home by 6; unless you're in S&T) and everybody has to understand the consequences; but once a decision is taken that satisfies both of you, everybody has to stick to the plan. It's by far the most important step in the whole process. Much easier said than done though.

With your profile and your expectations, I would look at either part-time (probably your best option all things considered) or full-time with 3 years of sacrifice at work, like Terp (I think) mentioned. In both cases you should be looking at a top 20 school (if you get scholarships more power to you). I personally wouldn't even give a second thought to OU - but that's a personal opinion. Or even, don't do an MBA at all. But that depends on how much you want to change careers / boost your current career (I don't know your background), what potential there is in your current career without an MBA, how happy you are with your job, etc.

One last thing: during the MBA, you'll be home much more than you think. It's not a massive sacrifice in terms of time. It can be if you want to, but it is as busy as you want it to be. You won't be the first guy going for an MBA with a family. However, it's a give-and-take thing: don't expect to go out every night like some students do.

Anyway, sorry for the poor quality of the writing, but I do hope that it helps!


PS: this must be a cultural difference (or an education cost issue), but I really have a hard time understanding the home-school principle: all the (small) benefits that you gain from that are heavily outweighed by the inconveniences IMO (but that's just an opinion from somebody who doesn't know the US of course)
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 11:27
This is a great post, and I'll comment on it tonight. Gotta get this project finished right now.
Audio wrote:
Wow, this probably has to be one of the best topics I've ever read on the forum! But people talk about so many issues that it's hard to follow...

Morris, first of all I admire you for being so open and honest about your problems and issues - even though it's an anonymous forum that took some courage).

I won't even try to equal the quality of the previous posts, which are way out of my league - congrats terp, river (even though you 2 disagree), pelihu, etc - but here's a couple of thoughts anyway (sorry if these points have already been mentioned):

Spending time with your family and privileging life quality over money is very respectable (you could almost be European! :-D ). However, I have a hard time believing that an MBA grad, even when he's working in GM (which is supposedly the lightest option in terms of hours), will be working less than 60 hours per week. I might be completely wrong (please correct me if I am), but I don't see a company paying you an MBA salary for a 9 to 5 job. Therefore you have to have a clear vision on the amount of time you are willing to spend at work (more of that below).

Also, I am the kind of person that thinks that an MBA from a school outside the top 20 (and I'm being large here) is pretty much useless. Might as well read the books. Why lose 2 years of your time and money (don't forget to count the salary you won't be earning anymore) for a school with limited possibilities? I don't know OU at all, but if I were you i would seriously inspect the possibilities that the school offers you in terms of employment. I'm not convinced that they will be able to provide you with the type of salary that you would expect after 2 years of inactivity (even with a free ride). But again, I don't know, and it's something you have to seriously look into.

Finally - and probably most importantly - you have to be very clear with yourself and your wife. Choose a path that satisfies both of you, talk about its consequences (in terms of hours, lifestyle, etc) and stick to it. Nobody should be making sacrifices that they aren't ready to make. I think these kind of decisions should be taken very seriously, without over-the-moon expectations (like earning 120k and being home by 6; unless you're in S&T) and everybody has to understand the consequences; but once a decision is taken that satisfies both of you, everybody has to stick to the plan. It's by far the most important step in the whole process. Much easier said than done though.

With your profile and your expectations, I would look at either part-time (probably your best option all things considered) or full-time with 3 years of sacrifice at work, like Terp (I think) mentioned. In both cases you should be looking at a top 20 school (if you get scholarships more power to you). I personally wouldn't even give a second thought to OU - but that's a personal opinion. Or even, don't do an MBA at all. But that depends on how much you want to change careers / boost your current career (I don't know your background), what potential there is in your current career without an MBA, how happy you are with your job, etc.

One last thing: during the MBA, you'll be home much more than you think. It's not a massive sacrifice in terms of time. It can be if you want to, but it is as busy as you want it to be. You won't be the first guy going for an MBA with a family. However, it's a give-and-take thing: don't expect to go out every night like some students do.

Anyway, sorry for the poor quality of the writing, but I do hope that it helps!


PS: this must be a cultural difference (or an education cost issue), but I really have a hard time understanding the home-school principle: all the (small) benefits that you gain from that are heavily outweighed by the inconveniences IMO (but that's just an opinion from somebody who doesn't know the US of course)

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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:00
terp06 wrote:
riverripper wrote:
terp06 wrote:
GM certainly is a pedigree career path. Look at the top companies and see where many of the senior executives went...top undergrads, or top MBAs/JDs. Yes people with no brand names on their resume can work their way up but its far less common.


It depends what you define as "top companies". If you mean the whole of the Fortune 500, I would say that your comment is blatantly incorrect. It is more common to find non-pedigreed backgrounds than it is pedigreed ones.

Here's another article for reference:

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... 9_2661.htm

Q: Do you think potential employers have any bias toward Ivy League schools? Or is it a question of looking at a wider variety of students from a wider variety of institutions?
A: Yes, they're looking at a wider variety of institutions, and the reason is that as other jobs got more attractive, the large corporations had a harder time hiring at the elite schools. Frankly, I think they get their feelings hurt. It sounds odd to say that, but I've seen that over and over. When the market was tight, people would come to Wharton, and couldn't hire. They couldn't get people to take their jobs. They weren't as attractive.

When the market turned down, they could have come back and hired people, but they wouldn't. They got their feelings hurt. It's not an entirely rational process, but they still feel that they really want to go places that want them.


I wouldn't be able say whether GM is a question of school brand or not, but I can confirm the point above: a very well-known "GM-type" company does not come to Wharton anymore, simply because nobody accepted the propositions that they made (last time they came: 10 propositions; 0 acceptances). Therefore they don't bother anymore.

However, to say that if you want to do GM you should forget the ultra-elites, I disagree. On the contrary, since a lot of people want to go to IB/PE, there is less competition for GM in those schools, making them quite attractive for somebody aiming for GM.

Just my 2 eurocents.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:07
I understand what you're trying to explain, Audio. And that was an interesting tidbit about the company that made 10 offers for 0 acceptances. That's precisely why I threw in that GE / UConn anecdote a few posts earlier.

However - if companies seeking GM hires are not recruiting at schools like Wharton anymore because the top talent goes the IB/MC/PE route, then isn't your point about recruiting for GM positions being less competitive at the Ultra Elite moot?

Audio wrote:
However, to say that if you want to do GM you should forget the ultra-elites, I disagree. On the contrary, since a lot of people want to go to IB/PE, there is less competition for GM in those schools, making them quite attractive for somebody aiming for GM.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:13
Audio wrote:
I wouldn't be able say whether GM is a question of school brand or not, but I can confirm the point above: a very well-known "GM-type" company does not come to Wharton anymore, simply because nobody accepted the propositions that they made (last time they came: 10 propositions; 0 acceptances). Therefore they don't bother anymore.

However, to say that if you want to do GM you should forget the ultra-elites, I disagree. On the contrary, since a lot of people want to go to IB/PE, there is less competition for GM in those schools, making them quite attractive for somebody aiming for GM.

Just my 2 eurocents.


If I was gunning for GM, I would take a full-ride scholarship to a regional school (or a PT program) that I know feeds into the companies that I am interested in over the claim of "less competition". Hard dollars win for me in this scenario - and hard dollars are even more attractive if I hypothetically had outstanding debt and a family to support.

I am not quite sure about other regions in the US and how much influence regional programs have - but at least here in Southern California, I know that for general management roles, USC grads can expect a more than fair shake at any GM job they'd like, and they have an outstanding alumni network. Pepperdine grads may have it just a touch tougher, but not by a whole lot. UCLA grads trump USC/Pepperdine as far as the pedigreed fields go (finance particularly) - but they're on a similar playing field for GM and Corporate jobs.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:43
Terp I think you are missing the point...you could save money by going to a regional school but then the highly desirable companies you would want to work for wont give you a second look. Just like IB a few years with the big name sets you up for a lot more opportunities down the road than settling for a lesser brand. Sure some may not recruit at HBS, Stanford, or Wharton because for the last few years everyone has been heading into banking but they didnt replace Wharton with Devry or U of Phoenix. They may have replaced it with Ross, Duke, or something along those lines.

Many GM positions are extremely selective where they recruit since they are hiring a hand full of people not 200. I talked to MBAs at several Fortune 100-200 companies in my desired industry and I think the most schools any recruited at were 6 or 7. They accept applications from tons of schools (like banks and consulting companies) but was told that unless you are at a school that is on par with the ones the recruit at then you probably wont get the job without experience that is perfect for them. This is a huge reason why I moved up from applying to regional schools to ultra elites. I probably would be able to do just as well at a 10-15 ranked school but why risk your future to save 25k now...99% of the time, long term coming out of a top 5 school you will be far better off than coming from a top 50.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:52
Terp -

Dude quit lumping USC (ranked 21 in USnews and BW and is normally around 18) in with Pepperdine which is not in anyones top 50, or even top 100. I've lived in southern california a lot longer than you have and there is a HUGE differences between USC and pepperdine (or any other school other than UCLA for that matter). In socal it's UCLA, USC then everybody else. The fact that you lump these schools together does make me question the accuracy of some of your other comments.

edit: one other thing. UCLA/USC/Pepperdine are on a level playing field for GM and corporate jobs? Are you crazy? In socal, if you are looking at IB/MC/PE/GM/Mkt or any other field your chances (based on where you get your MBA) will fall in this order - UCLA, USC, Pepperdine/LMU and everywhere else. ALWAYS.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 12:58
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
Terp -

Dude quit lumping USC (ranked 21 in USnews and BW and is normally around 18) in with Pepperdine which is not in anyones top 50, or even top 100. I've lived in southern california a lot longer than you have and there is a HUGE differences between USC and pepperdine (or any other school other than UCLA for that matter). In socal it's UCLA, USC then everybody else. The fact that you lump these schools together does make me question the accuracy of some of your other comments.

edit: one other thing. UCLA/USC/Pepperdine are on a level playing field for GM and corporate jobs? Are you crazy? In socal, if you are looking at IB/MC/PE/GM/Mkt or any other field your chances (based on where you get your MBA) will fall in this order - UCLA, USC, Pepperdine/LMU and everywhere else. ALWAYS.


Alright, I'll agree with you on Pepperdine. However, don't Marshall and Anderson maintain distinct advantages in certain fields? i.e. I know that Anderson is a lot better for Finance/Consulting, but isn't USC considered the gold standard in some fields where its alumni are dominant?
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:03
solaris1 wrote:
I understand what you're trying to explain, Audio. And that was an interesting tidbit about the company that made 10 offers for 0 acceptances. That's precisely why I threw in that GE / UConn anecdote a few posts earlier.

However - if companies seeking GM hires are not recruiting at schools like Wharton anymore because the top talent goes the IB/MC/PE route, then isn't your point about recruiting for GM positions being less competitive at the Ultra Elite moot?

Audio wrote:
However, to say that if you want to do GM you should forget the ultra-elites, I disagree. On the contrary, since a lot of people want to go to IB/PE, there is less competition for GM in those schools, making them quite attractive for somebody aiming for GM.


Yup indeed, agreed. Someone from Wharton would have a good chance to go to GM I reckon - heck, I'd even send my CV to the company that doesn't come anymore, I'm sure they'd be happy to have a guy from Wharton on board, plus it would show commitment to that company.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:05
Just got off the phone with a lady at OU and had to share something I learned.

They choose to have a small class, for some obvious reasons.

They have 52 starting this year. It somewhat hurts the networking, but you can't approach analyzing OU in the same way you do HBS, Columbia, Wharton, or other UE.

Some ranking systems penalzie them for not graduating 50+ students each year. Of the 52 starting this fall, some are dual degree JD/MBA so less than 50 graduate each year.

This part I already knew. The Price School of Business is named for Michael F. Price, a fund manager in NYC. He got his Bachelor's from OU and since has donated tens of millions to the school, thus creating much of the MBA program. His net worth is $1.4 billion, and is listed as the 562nd richest man in the world (by Forbes Magazine).

Here's the interesting part. Every year, Price (still in NY area) arranges for 9 students from OU's MBA program to spend the summer in NYC doing internships and taking a class or two from NYU. (In case you missed the %, 9 students is about 20% of the class). Over the years, this has created a nice little network of OU alumni in NY from getting offers from their summer employers.

So this poses my next question....Is it better to be an average fish in a big pond, or the Don of a smaller pond? I could really stand out from the OU MBA program. Also, if you adjust cost of living for the $75k starting salary of OU MBA grads, that's equivalent to $188k in Manhattan, or $135k in Queens. For Boston, that's about $111k. My point with the cost of living is that comparatively speaking, the salary coming from OU is going to buy about the same things as the salary starting out from a top school in a big city. The difference will not be immediate. It will be 5, 10, or 20 years down the road.

This has certainly given me more information to ponder. I think what I should do is pick 3 schools that I would really like to attend....Kellogg, Columbia, and Wharton and apply to those. Then if I don't get in, I still have time to go to OU (Admission deadline is July 1, 2009).
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:11
terp06 wrote:
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
Terp -

Dude quit lumping USC (ranked 21 in USnews and BW and is normally around 18) in with Pepperdine which is not in anyones top 50, or even top 100. I've lived in southern california a lot longer than you have and there is a HUGE differences between USC and pepperdine (or any other school other than UCLA for that matter). In socal it's UCLA, USC then everybody else. The fact that you lump these schools together does make me question the accuracy of some of your other comments.

edit: one other thing. UCLA/USC/Pepperdine are on a level playing field for GM and corporate jobs? Are you crazy? In socal, if you are looking at IB/MC/PE/GM/Mkt or any other field your chances (based on where you get your MBA) will fall in this order - UCLA, USC, Pepperdine/LMU and everywhere else. ALWAYS.


Alright, I'll agree with you on Pepperdine. However, don't Marshall and Anderson maintain distinct advantages in certain fields? i.e. I know that Anderson is a lot better for Finance/Consulting, but isn't USC considered the gold standard in some fields where its alumni are dominant?


Marshall is arguably stronger in media/entertainment/real estate. But even if I were going into one of those fields I still think I'd be better off at Anderson. Anderson has a stronger overall rep and that's what counts the most. However, I will say that its VERY VERY common out here for certain companies to have nearly all USC grads or nearly all UCLA grads. People down here have a strong affinity for their schools, so if the people making the hiring decisions went to USC you have a better shot landing that job even though UCLA is the better school. There is definitlely a lot of this is a "USC company" this is a "UCLA company" stuff going on down here. But, overall, your odds will be better at UCLA. Any company that's neutral, will go for UCLA grads. And obviously amogst the top IB/MC, etc there is no such thing as a "USC company" so they will always favor UCLA. UCLA has significantly better IB/MC placement than USC. But of course, many of those top firms hire as many or more people from the top east coast schools as UCLA.
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:22
jallenmorris wrote:
Just got off the phone with a lady at OU and had to share something I learned.

They choose to have a small class, for some obvious reasons.

They have 52 starting this year. It somewhat hurts the networking, but you can't approach analyzing OU in the same way you do HBS, Columbia, Wharton, or other UE.

Some ranking systems penalzie them for not graduating 50+ students each year. Of the 52 starting this fall, some are dual degree JD/MBA so less than 50 graduate each year.

This part I already knew. The Price School of Business is named for Michael F. Price, a fund manager in NYC. He got his Bachelor's from OU and since has donated tens of millions to the school, thus creating much of the MBA program. His net worth is $1.4 billion, and is listed as the 562nd richest man in the world (by Forbes Magazine).

Here's the interesting part. Every year, Price (still in NY area) arranges for 9 students from OU's MBA program to spend the summer in NYC doing internships and taking a class or two from NYU. (In case you missed the %, 9 students is about 20% of the class). Over the years, this has created a nice little network of OU alumni in NY from getting offers from their summer employers.

So this poses my next question....Is it better to be an average fish in a big pond, or the Don of a smaller pond? I could really stand out from the OU MBA program. Also, if you adjust cost of living for the $75k starting salary of OU MBA grads, that's equivalent to $188k in Manhattan, or $135k in Queens. For Boston, that's about $111k. My point with the cost of living is that comparatively speaking, the salary coming from OU is going to buy about the same things as the salary starting out from a top school in a big city. The difference will not be immediate. It will be 5, 10, or 20 years down the road.

This has certainly given me more information to ponder. I think what I should do is pick 3 schools that I would really like to attend....Kellogg, Columbia, and Wharton and apply to those. Then if I don't get in, I still have time to go to OU (Admission deadline is July 1, 2009).


Again - but again, this is personal - despite their exchange program, I wouldn't consider it, because it's a very small program with absolutely no visibility. Plus you mention that start salary is 75k; I don't know your salary, but couldn't you make it in 2 years without an MBA? Final point: starting salary with a top notch school would be much higher in Oklahoma City I reckon (which would be worth 960k in Manhattan :-D )

Finally, I agree with your approach, but I would add 1 or 2 safeties in there (elite schools).
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:28
No, starting salary in Oklahoma City would not be much higher because there aren't those type of jobs here. All of the discussion regarding location is accurate in that jobs do not pay the same in different places. I don't think I'd be able to break $100k in OKC even with a HBS degree. The only jobs that would be close to that might be hospital admin jobs, energy companies, and some real estate development. But people here place more value on experience. If you have the education, great but they don't want to train you to do your job. They believe someone else can train you and then you can go work for them in 2 - 3 years. it's a horrible closed circle of logic, but people make plenty of money here. Notice the price of oil per barrel or the price of natural gas? There is plenty of money here in Oklahoma, but they don't like to share it if they don't have to.

Audio - you're approaching your analysis of OU in the same way as the UE. This is evident by the fact that you're saying "no exposure". Just because you've not heard of it doesn't mean people in Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, etc haven't heard of it. Besides, if OU is so horrible, how did Michael Price become a Billionaire?
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:37
Huh?

People without college degrees have become billionaires...and folks I know who graduated with me from the Univ. of Chicago sell shoes at a mall in California.

Where you went to school rarely has anything to do with how much money you eventually make. Besides, did Price get an MBA from OU?

jallenmorris wrote:
Besides, if OU is so horrible, how did Michael Price become a Billionaire?
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:40
jallenmorris wrote:
No, starting salary in Oklahoma City would not be much higher because there aren't those type of jobs here. All of the discussion regarding location is accurate in that jobs do not pay the same in different places. I don't think I'd be able to break $100k in OKC even with a HBS degree. The only jobs that would be close to that might be hospital admin jobs, energy companies, and some real estate development. But people here place more value on experience. If you have the education, great but they don't want to train you to do your job. They believe someone else can train you and then you can go work for them in 2 - 3 years. it's a horrible closed circle of logic, but people make plenty of money here. Notice the price of oil per barrel or the price of natural gas? There is plenty of money here in Oklahoma, but they don't like to share it if they don't have to.

Audio - you're approaching your analysis of OU in the same way as the UE. This is evident by the fact that you're saying "no exposure". Just because you've not heard of it doesn't mean people in Dallas, Houston, St. Louis, etc haven't heard of it. Besides, if OU is so horrible, how did Michael Price become a Billionaire?


I didn't know about the salaries, that certainly is an aspect to hold into account.

Secondly, you're right: I'm too focused on the UE approach, since for me location isn't as important as it is for you (it's hard to change your perspective :-D ). If you plan to stay all your life in the region, then OU could be a good approach, although I'd definitively check out the recruiting possibilities and stats to be on the safe side. The only issue is that this approach limits you pretty much to that region. Also, would OU be competitive vs other elite schools in Dallas or Houston? (just a question, I have no idea).

Thirdly, would it not be possible for you to reach the type of job with the salary you mention by just not doing an MBA at all? (just a question again, I dunno). That would also be a factor to hold into account.

FInally, concerning Michael Price, well, you and I both know that a very smart guy will make it with a bit of luck and perseverance; education has little to do with this :)
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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water [#permalink] New post 19 Aug 2008, 13:51
He got his Bachelors in Business Administration from OU. I don't even know that he has an MBA. You help prove my point to Audio. It seems that Audio is saying that going to OU will hurt me, or at the least, not help me. I don't see how this could be true with using what you have stated as an example. Top b-school grads can fail miserably and West Coast Surfer's School of Business can produce a genius. Correct that, educate a genius. It has more to do with the person than it does the school. The school has to have something to work with when the person walks on campus. Without that, there isn't much the school can do. I believe that OU can give me the tools I can then use to succeed. Are there as many tools? Heck no. 9 people get NY internships in the summer? Is this a large number? No, but I think I certainly have a good chance of being one of those 9. Once I'm there, it will be upon me to exceed the expectations of the company I work for in order to attempt to get an offer.

Success has as much to do with the individual as it does the b-school. The difference the b-school makes in my mind, is 1) I do believe it is a better education, but it can be wasted on someone that doesn't value it, but attends anyway 2) networking 3) reputation 4) pre-screening process for employers.

My #1 choice is not OU, but it certainly will be a good fall back school. If I go there, I'll enjoy every second and make the most of every opportunity the school has worked hard to create for its students. And I'll do my best to make the school better because I went there. That's sounds so cliche because it is, but that's what I intend to do. Now, about those 3 schools? Anyone have suggestions / feedback?

Kellogg
Wharton
Columbia
------------
Chicago
Yale
???

I think I'll keep it to three. I know it doesn't help my chances, but I will pick 3 that I would be very excited to attend.

AUDIO - I think your post just now is stating much of what I have stated here.

As for the competitiveness of UE with OU in Dallas / Houston market. It depends on the job. If it's an energy job, then I think OU might actually have the edge on that because they know that the job is going to pay very well compared to other jobs OU grads are offered (avg. salary of $75k makes an offer of $90k look awesome!) and therefore, they know that the OU grads are probably going to be ready to put in more work than the UE grad that is taking $90k a year vs $100k+ that other grads generally get. These companies may not go by the philosophy Last in the class at UE is not necessarily better than #1 at OU. Frankly, I'm sure there are people that go to regional schools for reasons incomprehensible to many UE attendees that could have gotten into the UE school and done well. This fact shows that #1 at the regional school can, and maybe even often is, better than last in the class at some UE schools. Besides, last anywhere kind of has the "slacker" stigma.

As for salary without doing the MBA, yeah, I could get there, and maybe even quickly, but this is partly for self-gratification as well as the knowlege that I want to learn. I could always get lucky and shoot my rifle at the ground and out comes oil! (If you get this reference, more power to you. To the others, I'm not explaining it.)

solaris1 wrote:
Huh?

People without college degrees have become billionaires...and folks I know who graduated with me from the Univ. of Chicago sell shoes at a mall in California.

Where you went to school rarely has anything to do with how much money you eventually make. Besides, did Price get an MBA from OU?

jallenmorris wrote:
Besides, if OU is so horrible, how did Michael Price become a Billionaire?

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Re: Family + Post-MBA Career = Oil + Water   [#permalink] 19 Aug 2008, 13:51
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