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Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings

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Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 06 Aug 2009, 18:46
FYI...rankings are based on ROI

"Our sixth biennial ranking of business schools, based on the return on investment graduates have achieved after five years, shows that alumni of the best programs still command huge salaries with their degrees. Graduates of our five top-ranked M.B.A. programs typically earn more than $200,000 once they're five years out of school. But rising tuitions and higher pre-M.B.A. salaries mean it's taking longer for them to get a solid payback on their investment in going back to school."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/05/best-b ... _land.html

Top 10
1. Stanford
2. Tuck
3. Harvard
4. Booth
5. Wharton
6. Columbia
7. Cornell
8. Kellogg
9. Darden
10. Yale
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 06:02
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billyjeans wrote:
:lol: What did MIT ever do to you, Mr. Forbes!


I hate rankings like this because it severely penalizes schools that send students to a hugely diverse set of careers (and not necessarily ones that are the highest paying - i.e. banking/consulting).

5 year ROI is not the only metric that you use to evaluate a business school education and its very simplistic to claim a rankings by that metric. That is not to say that ROI isn't a factor - but it totally depends on the individual and their goals (if I want to go from consulting to non-prof or banking to CPG marketing, I'm going to take a pay cut - but that's going to be very purposeful).
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 09 Aug 2009, 18:11
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I think what you see in those figures is reflective of class composition.

See page 34 of this paper:

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/mariann ... 100108.pdf

You can see the way banking could really skew the figures.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 00:58
I was just about to post this. LBS maintains its #1 status in 2 year program outside of US (which is quite an easy thing to do once all the US schools and INSEAD are eliminated ;)
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 02:55
24 wrote:
Top 10
1. Stanford
2. Tuck
3. Harvard
4. Booth
5. Wharton
6. Columbia
7. Cornell
8. Kellogg
9. Darden
10. Yale


Tuck over H/W and Cornell over Kellogg - something isn't right.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 05:48
:lol: What did MIT ever do to you, Mr. Forbes!
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 12:40
Steel wrote:
billyjeans wrote:
:lol: What did MIT ever do to you, Mr. Forbes!


I hate rankings like this because it severely penalizes schools that send students to a hugely diverse set of careers (and not necessarily ones that are the highest paying - i.e. banking/consulting).

5 year ROI is not the only metric that you use to evaluate a business school education and its very simplistic to claim a rankings by that metric. That is not to say that ROI isn't a factor - but it totally depends on the individual and their goals (if I want to go from consulting to non-prof or banking to CPG marketing, I'm going to take a pay cut - but that's going to be very purposeful).


Agreed. This ranking is obviously heavily biased towards finance/banking sectors. And Tuck over HBS? I mean, seriously, come on!
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 07 Aug 2009, 22:01
The ordering that makes a bit more sense is compensation at the 5 year mark, as opposed to Forbes' ROI. At least there's a bit more of a resemblance to what people think.

1. Stanford - 225K
2. HBS - 215K
3. Chicago - 210K
4. Tuck - 205K
5. Wharton - 200K
6. MIT - 190K
7. Columbia - 182K
8. NYU - 170K
9. Cornell - 168K
10. Kellogg - 165K
11. Haas - 163K

This rankings is no worse or better than any other arbitrary ranking. It would be interesting, though, if they broke out different career fields (i.e. finance, consulting, marketing, etc.) as opposed to just lumped them together. If the career classes were broken out, I'd definitely pay close attention to the ranking. Regardless, for those who are looking for a slightly easier program to get into than the Ultra Elites, the data suggests that Cornell isn't a bad place to look.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 08 Aug 2009, 04:25
I think it's good to have rankings like this.

1) Most people look at more than one set and then hopefully find out why they're different.
2) For some people this particular rating is important - for better or worse it's the reason they're going to B-school.

I think for some people it's also good to see, holy crap, this may not be a good investment monetarily speaking, it's kind of a wake up call. If your school isn't at the top of the list, who cares, hopefully you've researched it and it's best for you.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 08 Aug 2009, 05:50
fluidian wrote:
The ordering that makes a bit more sense is compensation at the 5 year mark, as opposed to Forbes' ROI. At least there's a bit more of a resemblance to what people think.

1. Stanford - 225K
2. HBS - 215K
3. Chicago - 210K
4. Tuck - 205K
5. Wharton - 200K
6. MIT - 190K
7. Columbia - 182K
8. NYU - 170K
9. Cornell - 168K
10. Kellogg - 165K
11. Haas - 163K

This rankings is no worse or better than any other arbitrary ranking. It would be interesting, though, if they broke out different career fields (i.e. finance, consulting, marketing, etc.) as opposed to just lumped them together. If the career classes were broken out, I'd definitely pay close attention to the ranking. Regardless, for those who are looking for a slightly easier program to get into than the Ultra Elites, the data suggests that Cornell isn't a bad place to look.


Tuck and Chicago above Wharton on this is hugely surprising to me. I know Chicago has a great finance program, but I always thought that Wharton was by far the pre-eminent finance school and thus would have higher average salaries.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 08 Aug 2009, 06:10
Wharton also has a solid rep in other areas that don't pay nearly as well as the banking jobs. For example lots of folks head into things like marketing which pays substantially less. You would have to see the percentage of students going into all fields and then know what those paid. In reality this ranking means nothing, just because you go to one school doesnt mean that is really what your ROI will be. If you are going into banking at Yale you are going to make far more than a non-profit guy from Stanford. A ranking by function/industry would be better ranking for Forbes to do than by school.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 08 Aug 2009, 23:12
As a McCombs 2nd year I feel it's my duty to post the 11-20 rankings as well :wink:

1. Stanford
2. Dartmouth (Tuck)
3. Harvard
4. Chicago (Booth)
5. U Penn (Wharton)
6. Columbia
7. Cornell (Johnson)
8. Northwestern (Kellogg)
9. UVA (Darden)
10. Yale
11. Texas-Austin (McCombs)
12. UC Berkeley (Haas)
13. Duke (Fuqua)
14. MIT (Sloan)
15. UNC (Kenan-Flagler)
16. Brigham Young (Marriott)
17. NYU (Stern)
18. Michigan (Ross)
19. UCLA (Anderson)
20. Iowa (Tippie)
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 09 Aug 2009, 06:47
Toploader wrote:
As a McCombs 2nd year I feel it's my duty to post the 11-20 rankings as well :wink:

1. Stanford
2. Dartmouth (Tuck)
3. Harvard
4. Chicago (Booth)
5. U Penn (Wharton)
6. Columbia
7. Cornell (Johnson)
8. Northwestern (Kellogg)
9. UVA (Darden)
10. Yale
11. Texas-Austin (McCombs)
12. UC Berkeley (Haas)
13. Duke (Fuqua)
14. MIT (Sloan)
15. UNC (Kenan-Flagler)
16. Brigham Young (Marriott)
17. NYU (Stern)
18. Michigan (Ross)
19. UCLA (Anderson)
20. Iowa (Tippie)


MIT Sloan at #14? Now I know this ain't right.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 09 Aug 2009, 09:33
I think it would be better to rank based on ROI by industry. i.e., how much does a finance guy from Wharton make compared to Chicago. Do Marketing guys from Kellogg make more than marketing guys ar Booth?

That would be a valuable ranking.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 10 Aug 2009, 11:46
rhyme wrote:
I think what you see in those figures is reflective of class composition.

See page 34 of this paper:

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/mariann ... 100108.pdf

You can see the way banking could really skew the figures.


great paper rhyme.....I am at page 11 so far and find much of the data interesting
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 10 Aug 2009, 19:42
terp26 wrote:
rhyme wrote:
I think what you see in those figures is reflective of class composition.

See page 34 of this paper:

http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/mariann ... 100108.pdf

You can see the way banking could really skew the figures.


great paper rhyme.....I am at page 11 so far and find much of the data interesting


Yea, its a must read .
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 10 Aug 2009, 20:07
IB's are wayyyy higher in the paper :shock:
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 11 Aug 2009, 06:03
ACNguy wrote:
Tuck and Chicago above Wharton on this is hugely surprising to me. I know Chicago has a great finance program, but I always thought that Wharton was by far the pre-eminent finance school and thus would have higher average salaries.


The "by far" is a mistake. And I'm not saying that because I am at Chicago. Columbia, NYU, MIT, and LBS are at the same level in finance and economics with Wharton and Chicago. Actually in economics Wharton is even considered by some, "worse" than some of its peers.

Regarding the rankings, we should note that this takes into account "a golden age" in finance. I guess that the GAP will be much tighter when it takes into account the class of 2007-2010 for instance.
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 17 Aug 2009, 00:16
kwam wrote:

The "by far" is a mistake. And I'm not saying that because I am at Chicago. Columbia, NYU, MIT, and LBS are at the same level in finance and economics with Wharton and Chicago. Actually in economics Wharton is even considered by some, "worse" than some of its peers.

Regarding the rankings, we should note that this takes into account "a golden age" in finance. I guess that the GAP will be much tighter when it takes into account the class of 2007-2010 for instance.



Students of three years may not be enough to change the statistics.......
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings [#permalink] New post 17 Aug 2009, 07:40
eresh wrote:
kwam wrote:

The "by far" is a mistake. And I'm not saying that because I am at Chicago. Columbia, NYU, MIT, and LBS are at the same level in finance and economics with Wharton and Chicago. Actually in economics Wharton is even considered by some, "worse" than some of its peers.

Regarding the rankings, we should note that this takes into account "a golden age" in finance. I guess that the GAP will be much tighter when it takes into account the class of 2007-2010 for instance.



Students of three years may not be enough to change the statistics.......


And that's why I wrote "I guess" rather than "I'm sure" :lol:

Let me try to put differently: maybe because in the next few years finance jobs supposedly will pay smaller bonuses, the gap between Finance related jobs and GM ones may get tighter, and this may affect general ROI.

Rankings, rankings, they always bring controversy for the discussions, hehehe
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Re: Forbes 2009 B-School Rankings   [#permalink] 17 Aug 2009, 07:40
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