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GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool

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Retired Thread Master
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GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 11:07
Very interesting: http://www.beatthegmat.com/mba/2011/12/ ... superstars

What do you think? True or not in your experience?
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 11:24
Well this is the whole "chicken or the egg" type of question. She's looking at a class of people at a top business school and saying that at the end of school the GMAT doesn't always correlate with who were the best leaders.

There are a few HUGE flaws with this argument. First of all, the GMAT is not meant to tell anyone who the "leaders" are. It has been proven that the GMAT has a strong correlation with first year business school success. It has never been tested to see if there is any other correlation, and it is not meant to be a benchmark to pick out leaders. Also, she is using the word "correlate" incorrectly. In order to find true statistical correlation, you have to have a representative population, a good sample size, etc... to look at graduates from a top business school and say there is NO correlation with no statistical evidence is just crazy talk.

Also, the GMAT is just one factor in an application. So if a school has an average GMAT of 700, then people with over a 700 can be a little less competative in their application, while people below 700 will have to bring something else special. Sooo, many of these people that get into top buisness schools with low GMAT's are probably ALREADY top leaders and have something special. So of course these low GMATers would be top leaders, b/c they were before they even got into school. How did they get into a top Bschool with a low GMAT? To look at a top schools population is not a represenative sample of bschool applicants, leaders, and GMAT takers. Imagine that person that gets into harvard with a 550... he must have been an amazing leader! To then at the end of his studies compare his leadership to someone who came in with a 770 is just crazy. HE WAS ALREADY A TOP LEADER.

This might be one of the silliest articles I have ever read, and really has no basis for any interesting arguments. It surprises me that someone in a top position could even right something like this.

This is truly admissions consulatant banter, trying to convince applicants that "they can do anything" and "go anywhere" so apply to 40 schools so we can have your $. It is competative out there, and the GMAT is a key factor in an application. It isn't everything, and of course there are exceptions to the rules, but in general, all things equal, someone with a higher GMAT will have a better shot at getting into that school.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 11:41
GMATLA wrote:
Also, she is using the word "correlate" incorrectly. In order to find true statistical correlation, you have to have a representative population, a good sample size, etc... to look at graduates from a top business school and say there is NO correlation with no statistical evidence is just crazy talk.

Well, to be fair, as the director of admissions she has not only a sample, but data on the whole population of students at her school and her school only. I don't think she is (and she can't) make any statements about students at other business schools. But since she works for that school, I'm sure she doesn't care to try.

GMATLA wrote:
It has been proven that the GMAT has a strong correlation with first year business school success.

But apparently not overall success at Ross. She said that after the first year they look at those who did best and worst with recruiting, leading in the community, and in class. And they compare that performance with those people's applications and found that you can't tell who a superstar might be based on their GMAT.

Since she's the director of admissions at Ross I'm sure it's interesting to anyone applying there, anyway.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 12:11
I like this post because it is a great example of how ANYONE can flip statistics to look good in their favor. I read a book once called "How to Lie With Statistics" and it really shows how these types of articles really make no valid points.

What I'm trying to say is that her population that she's looking at is not representative. If these low GMATers she's looking at got into Ross with a low GMAT they were probably already successful in other areas (leadership, overall success potential, strong GPA). GMAT is just one rating of success, but why is she even correlating it to anything else other than 1st year Bschool success? This is not what it's meant for... This is what GMAC says the GMAT can be used for:
Quote:
• The GMAT® exam is a reliable and valid measure of verbal and quantitative skills found to be important in the graduate business study. In repeated research studies, GMAT scores have been found to be an accurate predictor of academic success in the first year of an MBA or other graduate management program.


So in admissions the GMAT is just one aspect that is looked it. Of course people with low GMATs will often be the most successful, because the school saw that they were successful in other areas of there application. Of course this test doesn't correlate to leadership, success in school, and other areas. It's not what it was meant for, and its not one GMAC wants it to be meant for. This article is just a way to show that the GMAT isn't everything, but we already knew that.

Generally a high GMAT score is going to help an Adcom decide if this person will be successful, but if other areas of your application trump this, of course you'll get in!
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 12:18
I'd flip the question to the extreme - who cares about success in a school (not to mention the GMAT)? Show that you can do in the real life!
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 15:25
GMATLA wrote:
GMAT is just one rating of success, but why is she even correlating it to anything else other than 1st year Bschool success? This is not what it's meant for... This is what GMAC says the GMAT can be used for: • The GMAT® exam is a reliable and valid measure of verbal and quantitative skills found to be important in the graduate business study. In repeated research studies, GMAT scores have been found to be an accurate predictor of academic success in the first year of an MBA or other graduate management program.

Perhaps that's why she's pointing it out, because so many people take the GMAT as more than it was meant to be, including schools themselves sometimes. Not even to mention rankings which expand the value of higher GMAT scores.

GMATLA wrote:
So in admissions the GMAT is just one aspect that is looked it. Of course people with low GMATs will often be the most successful, because the school saw that they were successful in other areas of there application. Of course this test doesn't correlate to leadership, success in school, and other areas. It's not what it was meant for, and its not one GMAC wants it to be meant for. This article is just a way to show that the GMAT isn't everything, but we already knew that.

I think the problem is a lot of people don't know that, especially when recruiters sometimes ask for people's GMAT scores. The only reason to do that is because they think it will effect how well you do in the jobs they have to offer.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 17 Dec 2011, 15:31
Vorskl wrote:
I'd flip the question to the extreme - who cares about success in a school (not to mention the GMAT)? Show that you can do in the real life!

Part of being successful in business school is being recruited into the job you want - and I think everyone would say that's also a measure of real-life success. And that's one of the things the head of admissions was saying they check in on at Ross - whether students were doing well or struggling with recruiting. Also depending on whether your school has grade disclosure or not you might care a lot of about success in school. I'm sure some recruiters also want to see that you displayed leadership in school - which is another thing the article said they were using as a measure of success in bschool.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2011, 18:55
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I wouldn't know! People are pretty guarded about their GMAT scores here. We talk a bit about the GMAT and our experiences, but nobody talks scores...
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2011, 19:34
Moss wrote:
I wouldn't know! People are pretty guarded about their GMAT scores here. We talk a bit about the GMAT and our experiences, but nobody talks scores...

Maybe it just doesn't matter to people so much after they're admitted so discussing scores isn't interesting. But if you get the feeling it's because people are self-conscious about it, I find that odd.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool [#permalink] New post 18 Dec 2011, 20:26
Not really sure why people don't discuss it... but honestly I think people see the GMAT for what it is: a means to an end. And the end is the business school where all of us, regardless of what we scored, ended up at.
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Re: GMAT correlation with being successful in bschool   [#permalink] 18 Dec 2011, 20:26
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