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GMAT SCORE DOWN FROM 690 to 610

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GMAT SCORE DOWN FROM 690 to 610 [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 17:07
I have had a very similar experience as Delany2000's. I went down from a 690 (Q 47 V 38) with a very nice split (I am not a native speaker, so I was happy with my verbal score too) to a 610 (Q 41 V34). Talking about being demoralized. First, I wanted to kick me in the butt to re-take the test in first place, then I wanted to strangle myself for taking the test in the morning. I am not a morning person and I had only a couple hours of sleep the night before (stress, I guess).

I wanted to take the test again because I had not a whole lot of preparation the first time around and I thought if I prepared little more, may be I can score somewhere between 720/730. I was not greedy, I just wanted to improve my candidacy little bit, I am 31 and did not go to IVY school and do not work for a fortune 100/50/10 whatever company. Well, now I created a mess. Now, Adcomms would probably not know what I am capable of anymore.

Now, besides my issues there are definitely some ETS issues. I believe ETS just released a new version of the GMAT SW and traditional way of preparing for the test might no longer apply to everyone. I do believe that Q no longer starts with an average question, and a prob/combination question within first five questions does not translate well to my score either. I also had one more prob/comb. question later in the test. I know because of my lack of sleep and therefore, concentration I might have made some silly mistakes. But, ETS scores should not vary by this much. I know that I am lot lot better than a 41 in the Q. But, it hardly matters anymore, my self esteem and confidence have gone down the toilet yesterday.

Be careful if you are re-taking the GMAT to bump up your score little bit. Don't be ****headed like me. I am rethinking my whole ambition for business school now. I know Adcomms only consider the highest score, but this has been really frustrating.

I do not mean to vent but I just wanted to advise everyone to think first and think more and then act.

Good luck to everyone!

MBAFORME (or not for me)
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 17:14
I really don't know the stats on repeat takers but going down by significant points is rare. :shock:

Feel free to ask GMAC.
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 17:49
Don't get too down on yourslef! Think positive. 690 is a great score and you can still get into good schools. If they ever ask why your 2nd score is lower, make up some BS- tell them you were sick on test date. But you were still committed to see your score by not hitting the "cancel key." I doubt if they will even ask that.

ETS just raised the fees to $225. It was a bigger jump than the previous one, considering economy is doing sh...ty. I agree with you that ETS has done more tricks to the test. Maybe they are using this increase in fees to make even more traps and tricks on their questions. Inflation is definitely not the reason for the raise. People are worry more about deflation in the US.

Anyways, keep your head up. Don't worry too much! Many people wish they had your 690, including me!!!
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Re: GMAT SCORE DOWN FROM 690 to 610 [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 19:17
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mbaforme wrote:
I have had a very similar experience as Delany2000's. I went down from a 690 (Q 47 V 38) with a very nice split (I am not a native speaker, so I was happy with my verbal score too) to a 610 (Q 41 V34). Talking about being demoralized. First, I wanted to kick me in the butt to re-take the test in first place, then I wanted to strangle myself for taking the test in the morning. I am not a morning person and I had only a couple hours of sleep the night before (stress, I guess).

I wanted to take the test again because I had not a whole lot of preparation the first time around and I thought if I prepared little more, may be I can score somewhere between 720/730. I was not greedy, I just wanted to improve my candidacy little bit, I am 31 and did not go to IVY school and do not work for a fortune 100/50/10 whatever company. Well, now I created a mess. Now, Adcomms would probably not know what I am capable of anymore.

Now, besides my issues there are definitely some ETS issues. I believe ETS just released a new version of the GMAT SW and traditional way of preparing for the test might no longer apply to everyone. I do believe that Q no longer starts with an average question, and a prob/combination question within first five questions does not translate well to my score either. I also had one more prob/comb. question later in the test. I know because of my lack of sleep and therefore, concentration I might have made some silly mistakes. But, ETS scores should not vary by this much. I know that I am lot lot better than a 41 in the Q. But, it hardly matters anymore, my self esteem and confidence have gone down the toilet yesterday.

Be careful if you are re-taking the GMAT to bump up your score little bit. Don't be ****headed like me. I am rethinking my whole ambition for business school now. I know Adcomms only consider the highest score, but this has been really frustrating.

I do not mean to vent but I just wanted to advise everyone to think first and think more and then act.

Good luck to everyone!

MBAFORME (or not for me)


Your result obviously contradicts GMAC's song that GMAT is a great and objective measure of one's performance. It also contradicts the fact that GMAT score is comparable throughout 5 years. It ticks me off.... :beatup

I am not gonna guess the reaosn of your desent. How far apart were the tests?
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A tale of two GMATS [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 20:02
I feel your pain!

I got a 690 in June (v89/q74) despite not being terribly prepared, not sleeping well the night before, and having to wait 2 hours to take the test (I just showed up w/o registering and waited).

I took it again today and got a 650(v85/q67) despite having taken time off from work to prepare, having preregistered so I didn't have to wait at the test center, and having studied pretty well the last five days. I don't mean to scare or discourage anyone, but the test I took today was alot messier than the one I took back in June, both the math and the verbal. By that I mean that the questions required more effort and were more draining. Anyway, that's my 'tale of two GMATS'. What did help me in both GMAT tests was BB's timing tips for the quant section. These tips are invaluable and I encourage anyone taking the GMAT to be sure to read them. Thanks BB.
I also have a ?: I sent my June scores to five schools that I am interested in applying to: H/K/Cornell TMO/UCLA/USC.I sent the score I got today to five other school that I won't be applying to. Will the five schools that I sent my 690 score to find out about my 650? Or will I be required to disclose this info to them in my application or elsewhere? Retaking the GMAT and getting a lower score will probably be seen as a major negative, rightt? What if I decide to take the GMAT a third time? Will the schools get all three of my scores or just the one I send them?

Thanks for your response and thanks again BB.
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 [#permalink] New post 29 Jul 2003, 20:35
bb!
I highly doubt that GMAC resluts are comparable for last 5 years. People who took the test five years ago did not experience this level of difficulty (especially not in Q), I can bet money on it. It could never be scientifically proven though, since people who took the test 5 years ago are no longer the same people as far as intelligence is concerned. A jump or a decent in scores if they take the GMAT now could easily be explained by GMAC or ETS.

My tests were only two and a half month apart. First time when I took the test I only studied the Kaplan for couple of weeks and took one Kaplan exam and one PP exam and did not even practice any probability or comb/perm stuff. I did not encounter any one of them in my last exam and that explains my 47 score. Even few weeks ago only people scoring in the 48-50 range saw those problems. Something changed during the month of July and people started reporting weird experiences like a COMB problem on the 3rd question, 2/3 prob./comb./perm problems even if they are scoring 43/44 and like a lot of other people, I also thought that they must have misiterpreted something.

I can tell you one thing, GMAC/ETS must have changed their whole philosophy about the test recently, probably to decrease the number of people with really high scores or to maintain the shape of their much beloved Bell curve. But, the thing is that it is not fair to the people who might be preparing based on the previous materials and information. They will definitely be shocked. Some would get over it and others might screw it up. Most recent materials including PR, KAplan are not familiar with this test philosophy and they would probably revise and make more money at it. Here you go it is more money for everyone, including GMAC and ETS who are experiencing a slump in the number of test takers.

I know I should not have scored this low, even if ETS is playing tricks with us. In my undergrad life I took about 8 Math classes including all Calculus classes and I have an A in every one of them and the highest in the class in most of them. Not having enough sleep would affect your concentration and make you do silly things. But, the whole idea behind the CAT is to figure out where my level is and I can tell you one thing that CAT did a really s***** job at it. I know nobody would have believed me if I had not scored the 690 on the first exam, but I proved to CAT before than I can handle the difficulty or CAT thought I did and if that is not the case, then CAT did a crappy job that time also, suggesting CAT is not consistent in measuring capabilities.

Please be alert when you are taking the test and if you do not get up at 6 in the morning everyday, please do not sign up for an 8 A.M. session.

Good luck.

mbaforme
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Re: A tale of two GMATS [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2003, 08:58
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izad wrote:
I feel your pain!

I got a 690 in June (v89/q74) despite not being terribly prepared, not sleeping well the night before, and having to wait 2 hours to take the test (I just showed up w/o registering and waited).

I took it again today and got a 650(v85/q67) despite having taken time off from work to prepare, having preregistered so I didn't have to wait at the test center, and having studied pretty well the last five days. I don't mean to scare or discourage anyone, but the test I took today was alot messier than the one I took back in June, both the math and the verbal. By that I mean that the questions required more effort and were more draining. Anyway, that's my 'tale of two GMATS'. What did help me in both GMAT tests was BB's timing tips for the quant section. These tips are invaluable and I encourage anyone taking the GMAT to be sure to read them. Thanks BB.
I also have a ?: I sent my June scores to five schools that I am interested in applying to: H/K/Cornell TMO/UCLA/USC.I sent the score I got today to five other school that I won't be applying to. Will the five schools that I sent my 690 score to find out about my 650? Or will I be required to disclose this info to them in my application or elsewhere? Retaking the GMAT and getting a lower score will probably be seen as a major negative, rightt? What if I decide to take the GMAT a third time? Will the schools get all three of my scores or just the one I send them?

Thanks for your response and thanks again BB.



Actually, the schools will not find out. You have sent the scores before you took the test again, so the schools will not know. It is a privacy thing.

Schools have access to the GMAC's database, but that's for recruiting purposes only.

If you take the GMAT third time - don't send the scores anywhere. Just wait to see your score and if itis below 700, don't send it out and just apply to the school with 690 you already sent it.

I am not sure if getting a lower score in a month is considered a drawback - you did not get dumber in a month, did you? :lol: so it is really the test problem that it can't measure you objectively in two consecutive months.

I think the fervor of GMAC to come up wiht unique and objective questions has forced it to create huge disparity from one month to another.

Bogdan.


P.S. thank you for the comlement :oops:
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2003, 09:11
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bb!
I highly doubt that GMAC resluts are comparable for last 5 years. People who took the test five years ago did not experience this level of difficulty (especially not in Q), I can bet money on it. It could never be scientifically proven though, since people who took the test 5 years ago are no longer the same people as far as intelligence is concerned. A jump or a decent in scores if they take the GMAT now could easily be explained by GMAC or ETS.


There are several ends to this stick :wink:
First of all, you are right, the problems a few years ago seemed to be easier - I work on a start up with a guy who wanted to go for an MBA in 97/98 but projects and crazy internet boom kept him till this day. He got 730 on the gmat and back then it was like 99 percentile. People were not scoring as high back then. The reason was that there were no Advanced Prep Materials and you pretty much had to use whatever was out there. There was no Business Week's forum, no this site or other GMAT related. THere was no GMAT+ or other methods, so I think GMAC is trying to prevent dilution and inflation of GMAT scores that happens gradually.

Quote:
My tests were only two and a half month apart. First time when I took the test I only studied the Kaplan for couple of weeks and took one Kaplan exam and one PP exam and did not even practice any probability or comb/perm stuff. I did not encounter any one of them in my last exam and that explains my 47 score. Even few weeks ago only people scoring in the 48-50 range saw those problems. Something changed during the month of July and people started reporting weird experiences like a COMB problem on the 3rd question, 2/3 prob./comb./perm problems even if they are scoring 43/44 and like a lot of other people, I also thought that they must have misiterpreted something.


Probably Probability problems became valued lower - as you know GMAT is adaptive and "difficulty level" depends on the number of people who get a certain problem right/wrong. Since a lot of people are prepared to see probability, they do better and these problems get "lower difficulty level" though they may still be hard. This is one explanation I can come up besides just that GMAC is evil 8-)

Quote:
I can tell you one thing, GMAC/ETS must have changed their whole philosophy about the test recently, probably to decrease the number of people with really high scores or to maintain the shape of their much beloved Bell curve. But, the thing is that it is not fair to the people who might be preparing based on the previous materials and information. They will definitely be shocked. Some would get over it and others might screw it up. Most recent materials including PR, KAplan are not familiar with this test philosophy and they would probably revise and make more money at it. Here you go it is more money for everyone, including GMAC and ETS who are experiencing a slump in the number of test takers.


I know I should not have scored this low, even if ETS is playing tricks with us. In my undergrad life I took about 8 Math classes including all Calculus classes and I have an A in every one of them and the highest in the class in most of them. Not having enough sleep would affect your concentration and make you do silly things. But, the whole idea behind the CAT is to figure out where my level is and I can tell you one thing that CAT did a really s***** job at it. I know nobody would have believed me if I had not scored the 690 on the first exam, but I proved to CAT before than I can handle the difficulty or CAT thought I did and if that is not the case, then CAT did a crappy job that time also, suggesting CAT is not consistent in measuring capabilities.

Please be alert when you are taking the test and if you do not get up at 6 in the morning everyday, please do not sign up for an 8 A.M. session.

Good luck.

mbaforme


I agree with you here....
Though I took mine at 9 AM. I stayed at a place about 20 mins from the test Center in Moscow. I showed up at 8 AM as I was supposed to - one hour before the test and the stupid staff made me wait for 30 minutes before they even let me to the floor. It took another 20 mins before they started seating people - such attitude is definitely not helpful on the test day.

:gl
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2003, 10:34
"I believe ETS just released a new version of the GMAT SW and traditional way of preparing for the test might no longer apply to everyone"

This very statement has scared the c**p out of me! I'd have normally asked for the source of your information but having seen your experience and the comments of a few others it does seem likely that ETS has changed their formula on some level.

This is doing nothing for my confidence really :( I got a 550 in November last year and at this point I'm freaking out over the possibilities during my retake come October!
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2003, 11:26
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lazerbud wrote:
"I believe ETS just released a new version of the GMAT SW and traditional way of preparing for the test might no longer apply to everyone"

This very statement has scared the c**p out of me! I'd have normally asked for the source of your information but having seen your experience and the comments of a few others it does seem likely that ETS has changed their formula on some level.

This is doing nothing for my confidence really :( I got a 550 in November last year and at this point I'm freaking out over the possibilities during my retake come October!



What is GMAT SW by the way?
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 [#permalink] New post 30 Jul 2003, 22:10
I believe the SW stands for SoftWare. :wink: :wink:
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 09:55
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lazerbud wrote:
I believe the SW stands for SoftWare. :wink: :wink:


:oops: :oops: :lol:
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HELP!!! [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 11:38
BB,
What's happening with the GMAT? What will happen to people like us who are planning to reach 700 after the first attempt of 550? What are we going to score 490? I'm scared and am planning to postpone my date (18th August) till things are clearer and an exact picture on this new trend is out.
Please advise or suggest something to boost morale of people like me.
Also yesterday I got 540 in KAPTEST2 which is 100 points less that Kaptest1. I was really upset with my score and now news like this is making me more nervous.
PLEASE HELP! I'm sure ur and ur friends experience will give us some direction.

Thanx
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 13:49
I took the test today, for the second time, and was disappointed with my Math results. I studied intensely over the past three months. You name it, I studied it. Princeton did not help my score at all. My Math was in the 39th percentile and the verbal was an 84. My practice ETS scores were 85 to 90 on the maths and verbal. The test was not what I had expected so I must concur with the above comments. I wish I could discuss the content but I can't. I will say that in my opinion it is not a matter of how much you study. I think the key is to be adaptable to questions and to determine what concept is being tested prior to tackling it. I have to wonder how useful an indicator of ability the gmat is. I have a few friends whose individual scores, over 3 tests, ranged in the area of 200 points. I am not talking continuous improvement. More like down 100 then up 150 or 200.

Anyway, I will try again soon. No lame test is going to keep me from going to the school of my choice, at least not without a fight.
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Re: HELP!!! [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 13:58
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aps_can wrote:
BB,
What's happening with the GMAT? What will happen to people like us who are planning to reach 700 after the first attempt of 550? What are we going to score 490? I'm scared and am planning to postpone my date (18th August) till things are clearer and an exact picture on this new trend is out.
Please advise or suggest something to boost morale of people like me.
Also yesterday I got 540 in KAPTEST2 which is 100 points less that Kaptest1. I was really upset with my score and now news like this is making me more nervous.
PLEASE HELP! I'm sure ur and ur friends experience will give us some direction.

Thanx
aps_can


I think a cool thing to do would be to storm GMAC's building like Neo stormed one in the Matrix. My helicopter and the 6-barrel are at your disposal :rocket

Now, being serious, I would not worry a whole lot.
If that's the trend, if there is actually a trend, then that's what we will have to face.

Assuming this panic that has been noticed in the last few weeks is really true, and those strange things that people complained about were not experimental questions, then it will take a while for companies and people to come up with a new system for GMAT Prep.

In case it is all a hoax, you will be wasting your time.

In both cases, no clarity will arrive by Sept. or even Oct.
Probably the only way you can clarify things for yourself is by actually going and taking the test yourself and knowing what you are still lacking.

We may get some more feedback from guys who take the test in August.
I would recommend to wait for at least 10 days. If the rummor confirms, we will study the beast :war


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Stop your worries [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 15:06
For every one in 100 retakers, some will decline by 80 pts or 100 pts. This is not unusual, it's the same with GRE or SAT or any ETS test.

Did you or delaney take the SAT :P
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 15:09
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I took the test today, for the second time, and was disappointed with my Math results. I studied intensely over the past three months. You name it, I studied it. Princeton did not help my score at all. My Math was in the 39th percentile and the verbal was an 84. My practice ETS scores were 85 to 90 on the maths and verbal. The test was not what I had expected so I must concur with the above comments. I wish I could discuss the content but I can't. I will say that in my opinion it is not a matter of how much you study. I think the key is to be adaptable to questions and to determine what concept is being tested prior to tackling it. I have to wonder how useful an indicator of ability the gmat is. I have a few friends whose individual scores, over 3 tests, ranged in the area of 200 points. I am not talking continuous improvement. More like down 100 then up 150 or 200.

Anyway, I will try again soon. No lame test is going to keep me from going to the school of my choice, at least not without a fight.




:x The news is not totally good, but if the score jumps so wildly, there is definitely a hope to get into a good month.

I appreciate that you are not posting REAL questions; GMAC gives me a hard time about not deleting them fast enough. I believe you can share everything else about the test except publishing real questions.

What do you mean by being adaptable to the questions?
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 15:34
I also think BB, GMAC will think you are crazy to suggest test has changed. Look some will go down on second chance, it's that simple. :wink:
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 [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 15:55
By adaptable, I meant that there will be questions you have not seen before or with new twists. This will absolutely happen. Studying hours on end won't help. A person has to use question answering strategies and techniques. Timing, thinking about what is being tested, not losing concentration, etc. But maybe I am giving bad advice. At least I wish I had done these things better but I was thrown off track right from the start and that always messes me up. Expect the unexpected I guess...

Well, thats enough writing. I have had my fill of the gmat for the day :-D
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Practice [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2003, 16:18
Billor,

Before you come up here and accuse GMAC of changing the test, ask yourself could the test have been that difficult, when you score that low, below average, you probably didn't see many difficult questions to average testtakers. :!:

You cannot say it has changed because you left out what you did the first time around. You should really study hard because it sounds like you are missing alot of simple concepts if you are getting medium wrong alot.

On practice, if you have seen the test before, the Powerprep, obviously it is not accurate :!:
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