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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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RashedVai wrote:
mbunny wrote:
To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.


(A) their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment

(B) their natural growth rate, their feed allotment cut

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment

Similar Question : [as fast as] LINK

The first and second choices illogically state that the suppliers are not only growing the fish but are also growing the natural growth rate of the fish.

The third choice elliptically states that suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as growing them naturally grows them, but when something grows naturally, it is illogical to say anything grows them. The appropriate contrast is between the rate at which the suppliers are growing the fish and the rate at which the fish grow when allowed to grow naturally on their own.

The fourth and fifth options both express that contrast appropriately. Of these two options, however, only the fourth uses a present participle (cutting) that is parallel to the other verbs in the sentence (growing and raising), and therefore the fourth choice is best.

To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

LINK In the 1980's the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970's.

An this case, you have a problem of redundancy:
A RATE can't be FAST.
* The rate can be high;
* The increase itself can be fast.

Similarly,
A height can't be tall (a person can be tall, or a height can be greater than...)
A bank account can't be rich (a person can be rich, or a bank account can contain a large amount of money)
etc.


Would you please shed some light on "COMMA + WITH modifier". Here, how the meaning changes in answer (E)? generis

RashedVai , sure. (I think this sentence is weird. How to you make fish grow faster by cutting the amount of food they eat?)

When I first read (E), I thought that I had missed something.
Wrong.
The sentence is missing something. A verb. Actually, a verbal.

their feed allotment by nearly half
can't be "with" anything because the phrase is not a thing. It has no meaning.

their feed allotment by nearly half
does not mean anything.

by nearly half is a phrase that we use after a verb or verbal.

Barring other issues such as parallelism, these alternatives would be okay:
with the feed allotment CUT by nearly half . . .
with the feed allotment DECREASED by nearly half . . .

So the meaning of the sentence changes with E because the phrase "their feed allotment by half" is nonsensical.

I wrote some other examples, all of which sound bizarre to me. I added corrections to most of them.
If the phrase I have highlighted in red does not strike as odd or nonsensical, maybe one of the examples will do so.

Nonsensical: her piece of chocolate layer cake by nearly half
-- her piece of chocolate layer cake increased by half
Nonsensical: his lemon ice cream scoop by nearly a third
-- his lemon ice cream scoop reduced by nearly a third
Nonsensical: their wine by nearly half
Nonsensical: our quota of cherries by nearly half
Nonsensical: my part of the bed by nearly half

• The non-underlined portion that contains raising requires a parallel verbal
-- "and" is a parallelism marker
-- what does AND join? Two things that the supplier does to make fish grow quickly
-- the non-underlined portion at the end contains raising, a present participle (verbING)
-- whatever is on the right hand side of AND must also be on the left side of AND.
The items must be parallel.

To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as they grow naturally, with their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

We need "cutting."
. . . suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment by half and raising them on special diets.

I hope that helps. :)
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
I chose (C), eventually (D) came out as the correct answer. I chose (C) because of the parallelism with "growing" and" "cutting", whereas (D) uses "growing" and "they" to make it parallel. Where I'm wrong?
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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lakshya14 wrote:
I chose (C), eventually (D) came out as the correct answer. I chose (C) because of the parallelism with "growing" and" "cutting", whereas (D) uses "growing" and "they" to make it parallel. Where I'm wrong?

Hi Lakshya, meaning is supreme.

growing them naturally is incorrect. No one can grow anyone naturally; the very fact that growth is natural, implies that they grow on their own.
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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OFFICIAL GMAT EXPLANATION

QUESTION

To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

Which of the following represents the most grammatically correct way to express the underlined portion of the sentence above?

(A) their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment

(B) their natural growth rate, their feed allotment cut

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment cut
___________________________________________________________________________________

OFFICIAL ANSWER

The first and second choices illogically state that the suppliers are not only growing the fish but are also growing the natural growth rate of the fish.

The third choice elliptically states that suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as growing them naturally grows them, but when something grows naturally, it is illogical to say anything grows them. The appropriate contrast is between the rate at which the suppliers are growing the fish and the rate at which the fish grow when allowed to grow naturally on their own.

The fourth and fifth options both express that contrast appropriately. Of these two options, however, only the fourth uses a present participle (cutting) that is parallel to the other verbs in the sentence (growing and raising), and therefore the fourth choice is best.

ANSWER: (D)
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To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
Hi GMATGuruNY - in this case I was able to eliminate A/B and C because of the lack of parallelism within the comparison. Specifically

- suppliers are growing fish is a clause.

Hence I need to compare this is to another clause and not compare the clause to a noun or to a modifier.

So suppliers are growing fish has to be compared to a clause

Option A) their natural growth rate = Noun
Option B) their natural growth rate = Noun
Option C) growing them naturally = Gerund
Option D) they grow naturally = Clause
Option E) they grow naturally = Clause
Only option D and Option E are comparing clauses to clauses

Hence eliminate A / B / C.

Fair strategy ?
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi GMATGuruNY - in this case I was able to eliminate A/B and C because of the lack of parallelism within the comparison. Specifically

- suppliers are growing fish is a clause.

Hence I need to compare this is to another clause and not compare the clause to a noun or to a modifier.

So suppliers are growing fish has to be compared to a clause

Option A) their natural growth rate = Noun
Option B) their natural growth rate = Noun
Option C) growing them naturally = Gerund
Option D) they grow naturally = Clause
Option E) they grow naturally = Clause
Only option D and Option E are comparing clauses to clauses

Hence eliminate A / B / C.

Fair strategy ?


You are correct that a clause cannot be compared to a noun and that the comparisons in A, B and C are illogical.
But be careful:
When one clause is compared to another, the verb in the second clause is often omitted.
SC111 in the OG16:
Wild animals have less total fat than livestock.
Here, only a noun appears in the blue portion, but a complete clause is implied, as follows:
Wild animals have less total fat than livestock [have total fat].
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

(A) their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment -> "their" can't refer back to fish. Pronoun error. Incorrect.

(B) their natural growth rate, their feed allotment cut -> Same as A.

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment -> growing is incorrect. we need someone before growing.

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment -> It is better. They refers fish, it makes sense too. Let's keep it.

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment -> Parallelism error, "with their" is not parallel to "cutting". Incorrect.

So, I think D. :)
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
mbunny wrote:
To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.


(A) their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment

(B) their natural growth rate, their feed allotment cut

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment

Similar Question : [as fast as] LINK

The first and second choices illogically state that the suppliers are not only growing the fish but are also growing the natural growth rate of the fish.

The third choice elliptically states that suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as growing them naturally grows them, but when something grows naturally, it is illogical to say anything grows them. The appropriate contrast is between the rate at which the suppliers are growing the fish and the rate at which the fish grow when allowed to grow naturally on their own.

The fourth and fifth options both express that contrast appropriately. Of these two options, however, only the fourth uses a present participle (cutting) that is parallel to the other verbs in the sentence (growing and raising), and therefore the fourth choice is best.

To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

LINK In the 1980's the rate of increase of the minority population of the United States was nearly twice what it was in the 1970's.

An this case, you have a problem of redundancy:
A RATE can't be FAST.
* The rate can be high;
* The increase itself can be fast.

Similarly,
A height can't be tall (a person can be tall, or a height can be greater than...)
A bank account can't be rich (a person can be rich, or a bank account can contain a large amount of money)
etc.


Hello! In this question I couldnt eliminate option A. "Suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate" seems correct to me. its like suppliers are growing at twice the natural growth rate. I couldnt't find any flaw. please help AndrewN GMATNinja DmitryFarber
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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pk6969 wrote:
mbunny wrote:
To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.


(A) their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment

(B) their natural growth rate, their feed allotment cut

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment

Similar Question : [as fast as] LINK


Hello! In this question I couldnt eliminate option A. "Suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate" seems correct to me. its like suppliers are growing at twice the natural growth rate. I couldnt't find any flaw. please help AndrewN GMATNinja DmitryFarber

You have to keep in mind, pk6969, that a comparison on the GMAT™ is very tightly governed: like must be compared with like. The comparative twice as fast as should have parallel elements on either side, as in, The Porsche is twice as fast as the Honda, in which two makes of auto are compared, or, in a more complex example, The Porsche hits a top speed that is twice as fast as that of the Honda, in which the comparison is between speed and speed (by way of that of).

In the original sentence above, fish are growing twice as fast at fish farms as the rate at which fish grow in their natural habitat, and that comparison is skewed. Of course, a fish and a rate are not the same. This understanding helps us eliminate both (A) and (B).

Believe it or not, the same consideration can help us eliminate (C). Sure, you can make the point that growing and growing are parallel elements: They could not be any more similar. So why is (C) incorrect? Because a supplier cannot grow fish naturally. Either a supplier grows fish and tampers with nature, or fish grow naturally, independent of the supplier. It cannot work both ways. Thus, (C) is out.

Finally, between (D) and (E), even if I add cut to the end of the latter (as I believe the answer choice would appear), we can turn to parallelism to separate the correct answer from another runner up. Notice and raising in the non-underlined portion at the end of the sentence. A parallel action would adopt the -ing form of the verb, and only (D) qualifies.

I hope you can appreciate why the original sentence does not work. Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
Hello IanStewart
I have some doubt in A. One of the experts posted ""Right now, this says "suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate". That's a verb "are growing" compared to a noun "their natural growth rate". You can't do that.""
Is this true? I think I have seen some sentences which don't conform to these rules.
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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pk6969 wrote:
Is this true? I think I have seen some sentences which don't conform to these rules.


The comparison in A is wrong, as I imagine many posts have explained above (I haven't read the thread). If you've seen examples that seem to violate a comparison rule articulated in an earlier post, perhaps you could post examples, and if another expert has posted a "rule" that you don't think is correct, it might make sense to ask that expert to clarify.
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
IanStewart wrote:
pk6969 wrote:
Is this true? I think I have seen some sentences which don't conform to these rules.


The comparison in A is wrong, as I imagine many posts have explained above (I haven't read the thread). If you've seen examples that seem to violate a comparison rule articulated in an earlier post, perhaps you could post examples, and if another expert has posted a "rule" that you don't think is correct, it might make sense to ask that expert to clarify.


Hi I am sorry I wasn't clear in my doubt. I know the comparison is wrong. But the reason is whether it doesn't make sense (rate can't be fast, it can be high) or we have a verb on one side and noun on other. For eg. he is running as fast as cheetah.(here we have he noun on one side and verb on other). Also, I did tag the expert in posts sometime earlier but she is not that active on this forum. Thanks.
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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pk6969 wrote:
. But the reason is whether it doesn't make sense (rate can't be fast, it can be high) or we have a verb on one side and noun on other. For eg. he is running as fast as cheetah.(here we have he noun on one side and verb on other). Also, I did tag the expert in posts sometime earlier but she is not that active on this forum. Thanks.


In the comparison "he runs as fast as a cheetah", which is correct, the complete comparison is "he runs as fast as a cheetah (runs)". That's fine because you're comparing the person and the cheetah (you don't have a verb on one side and a noun on the other). But if you map that onto the comparison in answer A, you get "suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate (is growing fish)", which clearly makes no sense; a growth rate does not grow fish.
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To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
IanStewart wrote:
pk6969 wrote:
. But the reason is whether it doesn't make sense (rate can't be fast, it can be high) or we have a verb on one side and noun on other. For eg. he is running as fast as cheetah.(here we have he noun on one side and verb on other). Also, I did tag the expert in posts sometime earlier but she is not that active on this forum. Thanks.


In the comparison "he runs as fast as a cheetah", which is correct, the complete comparison is "he runs as fast as a cheetah (runs)". That's fine because you're comparing the person and the cheetah (you don't have a verb on one side and a noun on the other). But if you map that onto the comparison in answer A, you get "suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate (is growing fish)", which clearly makes no sense; a growth rate does not grow fish.


Hi IanStewart - regarding the comparison in A and in B, dont we say this however ?

i. I am walking twice as fast as normal [clause vs adjective]
ii. I am walking twice as fast as the average [clause vs noun]

Are i) and ii) wrong because the right hand side are not clauses ?

Other sentences
iii. I am walking twice as fast as IS normal [clause vs verb]
iv. I am walking twice as fast as IS required [clause vs verb]
v. I use butter as much as IS recommended [clause vs verb]

Are we really saying (iii) | (iv) and (v) are wrong because the Right Hand side are verbs and not clauses ?

On (iii) | (iv) and (v) specifically, this structure is quite common among native speakers
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To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
Hi avigutman – I keep reading that C is wrong because “Suppliers cannot grow fish naturally" . I don’t see why not though

Analogy to option C
Sam and Jay buy their tomatoes
<< as opposed to >>
Growing tomatoes naturally

Growing tomatoes naturally == seems like a legitimate comparison and growing tomatoes naturally means not putting any fertilizers on them | not putting any artificial ingredients on them....
Growing fish naturally seemed okay too == fish are not given any special care | no special diets | no special water conditions ....]
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman – I keep reading that C is wrong because “Suppliers cannot grow fish naturally" . I don’t see why not though

Analogy to option C
Sam and Jay buy their tomatoes
<< as opposed to >>
Growing tomatoes naturally

Growing tomatoes naturally == seems like a legitimate comparison and growing tomatoes naturally means not putting any fertilizers on them | not putting any artificial ingredients on them....
Growing fish naturally seemed okay too == fish are not given any special care | no special diets | no special water conditions ....]


Agreed, jabhatta2. Since I'm not a fish growing expert, I can't confidently say that growing fish naturally isn't a thing.
What do you think about this sentence [edited for a more analogous sentence]:

Athletes are running twice as fast as running barefoot.
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Re: To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, supplie [#permalink]
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avigutman wrote:
jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman – I keep reading that C is wrong because “Suppliers cannot grow fish naturally" . I don’t see why not though

Analogy to option C
Sam and Jay buy their tomatoes
<< as opposed to >>
Growing tomatoes naturally

Growing tomatoes naturally == seems like a legitimate comparison and growing tomatoes naturally means not putting any fertilizers on them | not putting any artificial ingredients on them....
Growing fish naturally seemed okay too == fish are not given any special care | no special diets | no special water conditions ....]


Agreed, jabhatta2. Since I'm not a fish growing expert, I can't confidently say that growing fish naturally isn't a thing.
What do you think about this sentence [edited for a more analogous sentence]:

Athletes are running twice as fast as running barefoot.

Hello, jabhatta2 and avigutman. (Avi, I do not think we have crossed paths directly before. I respect your views and enjoy reading your posts.) As one of those people who did write earlier that suppliers cannot grow fish naturally, I feel obliged to point out that scrutinizing an iteration of a sentence in a vacuum is not the way the SC task works. I can only speak for myself, but I did not look at (C), say, Suppliers can't grow fish like that! and remove it from consideration. Rather, I looked at the four other answer choices around (C) and reasoned that the comparison, and, by extension, the sentence, made more sense with (D) or (E).

Quote:
To meet the rapidly rising market demand for fish and seafood, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as their natural growth rate, cutting their feed allotment by nearly half and raising them on special diets.

(C) growing them naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(D) they grow naturally, cutting their feed allotment

(E) they grow naturally, with their feed allotment

That is, when I have a sentence that says, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as they [fish] grow naturally, what can I gain by seeking to justify, suppliers are growing fish twice as fast as growing them naturally, in terms of meaning? If the former provides a perfectly reasonable interpretation of what the sentence can convey, why bend over backwards to work with an interpretation that may or may not be tenable? Granted, the underlined portion of any sentence can be negotiated, but the meaning conveyed by (C) is convoluted at best. I do not think someone needs to be a "fish growing expert" to make the call that (C) is substandard next to (D) or (E) in terms of expressed meaning (irrespective of the comparison problem). Can fish grow naturally? Yes. Can suppliers grow fish naturally? Maybe, maybe not, but within this sentence and its latter two iterations, I would argue no. Avi has posted an on-point sentence at the end of his edited post. The comparison is skewed, certainly, but we could also look at the sentence and instantly tell that it is "off," and we could either think of ways to improve it, or, if it were in an SC question, we could look to other answer choices to see if they could lift the burden from our troubled minds.

One final point: I do not know any Expert who claims that his or her words are unassailable. Different Experts (or members in general) may approach the same problem in different ways, not to mention that the same person may change his or her views over time. Sometimes disagreements may arise. If anything, such occurrences ought to enhance the community, since we are all here to learn and help one another, not to prove who is right or wrong.

- Andrew
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