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Good students learn more than what their parents and

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Good students learn more than what their parents and [#permalink] New post 18 May 2010, 07:14
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31% (04:07) correct 69% (01:54) wrong based on 14 sessions
Good students learn more than what their parents and teachers compel them to learn. This requires that these students derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity, and one cannot experience such pleasure unless one is capable of concentrating on a topic so intently that one loses track of one’s own identity. If the statements above are true, each of the following could also be true EXCEPT:

(A) Some people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they
lose track of their own identities are nevertheless incapable of deriving pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
(B) Most good students do not derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
(C) Many people who derive pleasure simply from the satisfaction of their curiosity are not good students.
(D) Some people who are not good students derive pleasure from losing track of
their own identities.
(E) Most people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they lose track of their own identities are not good students.

I tried to figure this using Venn Diagram, though in my mind 8-) and marked the correct answer, but it took me around 3+ min. I also tried the casual reasoning but no help. Do you know a better way to solve this?
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 04:29
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OA is B. Congrats all winners.

The stimulus in this problem contains a set of interrelated conditional statements: GS = good student, LM = learn more than what their parents and teachers compel them to learn, DP = derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity, CC = capable of concentrating on a topic so intently that one loses track of one’s own identity.
1. First sentence: GS—>LM.
2. Second sentence, first part: LM—>DP.
3. Second sentence, second part: DP—>CC. Chain of all statements: GS—>LM—>DP—>CC. Remember, when you encounter Cannot Be True questions featuring conditional relationships, actively seek the answer that violates the precept that when the sufficient condition occurs the necessary condition must also occur. In this problem, that situation is found in answer choice (B).

Answer choice (A): This answer describes a situation where the necessary condition in the second part of the second sentence occurs and the sufficient condition does not. Since the occurrence of the necessary condition does not make the sufficient condition occur, this scenario could happen and this answer is therefore incorrect. This type of answer is a frequent wrong answer in Cannot Be True questions
featuring conditional relationships.

Answer choice (B): This is the correct answer. The chain of statements in the stimulus shows that every good student derives pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity. Thus, it cannot be true that “Most good students do not derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.”

Answer choice (C): Like answer choice (A), this answer describes a situation where the necessary condition occurs and the sufficient condition does not. This time the scenario references the relationship in the first sentence.

Answer choice (D): The stimulus only offers information about good students; no information is given about people who are not good students. Accordingly, we can make no judgment about these individuals, and the answer is incorrect.

Answer choice (E): Like answer choices (A) and (C), this answer describes a situation where the necessary condition occurs and the sufficient condition does not. Unlike those two answers, you must rely on your understanding of the chain of all statements in order to understand why this answer is possible. Because the “capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they lose track of their own identities” is
the necessary condition for being a good student, it is possible that most people who meet this condition are still not good students. Again, avoid Mistaken Reversals!
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 18 May 2010, 08:12
Ans is D as

there is no information about non good students.
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 18 May 2010, 09:15
I narrowed it to B and D

and nervously picked (B).

What is the OA?
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 18 May 2010, 09:24
Let's discuss this question.

How can we solve such question? :knight
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 01:18
I picked D since I couldn't find any reference to deriving pleasure from losing identity. The rest is gibberish to me, they all look possible.
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 03:40
confusing one.
will take B
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 17:27
Excellent question. Too much of though process in involved to reach the answer. But the explanation I believe is simple one. The answer we are looking for is - HAS TO BE FALSE.

The way of dependency as shown by ykaiim is very helpful. GS -> LM -> DP -> CC

(A) Some people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they
lose track of their own identities are nevertheless incapable of deriving pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
--- Here the relationship in picture is DP -> CC. To be DP, CC is MUST, however to be CC, DP is not must. Hence can be or cannot be true.

(B) Most good students do not derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
--- Here the relationship in picture is GS -> DP. Here to be GS, DP is must. Answer choice contradicts the relationship. Hence it HAS TO BE FALSE. IT CANNOT BE TRUE.

--- In similar way relationships can be tested for answer choices C, D & E.

(C) Many people who derive pleasure simply from the satisfaction of their curiosity are not good students.
(D) Some people who are not good students derive pleasure from losing track of
their own identities.
(E) Most people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they lose track of their own identities are not good students.

Thank You.

Thanks,
Akhil M.Parekh
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Re: Good students learn more [#permalink] New post 27 Jun 2010, 11:34
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(A) Some people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they
lose track of their own identities are nevertheless incapable of deriving pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
The argument implies DP -> CC but not DP -> CC is still possible [rule 2 below]
(B) Most good students do not derive pleasure from the satisfaction of their curiosity.
Argument implies GS -> SC so if not SC then Not GS hence cant be true [rule 1 below]
(C) Many people who derive pleasure simply from the satisfaction of their curiosity are not good students.
Argument implies GS - > DP still leaves the possibility that DP -> Not GS [rule 3 below]
(D) Some people who are not good students derive pleasure from losing track of
their own identities.
Argument implies GS -> CC still can imply CC -> Not GS [rule 3 below]
(E) Most people who are capable of becoming so absorbed in a topic that they lose track of their own identities are not good students.
Argument implies GS -> CC still can imply CC -> Not GS [rule 3 below same as in D]


There are some generic principles which I am sure was covered long time ago by a gentleman named Honghu who had scored a 780 on GMAT. I will try and find his post.

The general rules (some of which only I remember now)

1) IF X THEN Y IMPLIES IF NOT Y THEN NOT X

Example - all cats are mammals ; if not a mammal then can't be a cat also

2) IF X THEN Y CAN STILL IMPLY IF NOT X THEN Y

Example - all cats are mammals ; if not a cat could still be a mammal

3) IF X THEN Y CAN STILL IMPLY IF Y THEN NOT X
Example - all cats are mammals; if mammal then not cat


These three rules I think are relevant and sufficient to solve this question (and I still took 3+ mins to solve it)

GS -> LM -> DP -> SC -> CC (Good Students Learn More Satisfy Curiosity By Concentrating hard enough to lose identity)

So GS leads to LM leads to DP leads to SC leads to CC
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Re: Good students learn more than what their parents and [#permalink] New post 03 Jul 2014, 10:03
Hello from the GMAT Club VerbalBot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

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Re: Good students learn more than what their parents and   [#permalink] 03 Jul 2014, 10:03
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