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Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country

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Re: I have visited hotels throughout the country and have [#permalink] New post 02 Jun 2012, 11:01
The only reason I can select D is because all other options are either irrelevant or strengthening the argument. So its only by elimination. I see no explanation valid enough for D to be an option.
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Re: I have visited hotels throughout the country and have [#permalink] New post 04 Jun 2012, 00:44
vaivish1723 wrote:
I have visited hotels throughout the country and have noticed that in those built before 1930 the quality of the original carpentry work is generally superior to that in hotels built afterward. Clearly carpenters working on hotels before 1930 typically worked with more skill, care, and effort than carpenters who have worked on hotels built subsequently.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the guidebook writer’s argument?

A. The quality of original carpentry in hotels is generally far superior to the quality of original carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores.
B. Hotels built since 1930 can generally accommodate more guests than those built before 1930.
C. The materials available to carpenters working before 1930 were not significantly different in quality from the materials available to carpenters working after 1930.
D. The better the quality of original carpentry in a building, the less likely that building is to fall into disuse and be demolished.
E. The average length of apprenticeship for carpenters has declined significantly since 1930.
I dont know the answer, Kindly explain along with the right answer


Choice D is the correct one because it explain that the building which was built in good quality less likely to be collapsed than the one which was built in worse quality. So, we do not know how many buildings less in quality are collapsed before 1930. If there are many buildings are collapsed before 1930 because of the low quality, we cannot conclude that the skill in carpenter before 1930 are better than the skills in carpenter since 1930.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 10:38
Wow, just one word can make a difference. 'quality'
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 11 Mar 2013, 15:13
hi Sauravdas,

D does definitely weaken, because it says that buildings built with high quality are more likely to remain in use.

SO

The buildings from pre 1930 are likely to only be a small section of all buildings that were ever built pre 1930 and only the good ones survive. So not all pre 1930 buildings would have had such high quality work.

Hope that helps.

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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 21 Mar 2013, 08:28
Why E is not correct?

E says that length of apprenticeship has declined after 1930 and so we can infer that if every other thing remain same, then the care, skill and effort must be enhanced after 1930 for the same quality of hotel.
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Re: I have visited hotels throughout the country and have [#permalink] New post 02 Apr 2013, 12:37
sauravdas wrote:
The only reason I can select D is because all other options are either irrelevant or strengthening the argument. So its only by elimination. I see no explanation valid enough for D to be an option.


Although it's true that by POE you can eliminate all other answers quite easily, IMO, D has very strong logic.

The stem:

Author visits hotels built BEFORE 1930 and AFTER 1930, and sees that carpentry is of higher quality in MORE hotels built before 1930 than built after.

Author CONCLUDES that masters who made carpets for hotels before 1930 were more skillful than those who made carpets for hotels after 1930.

Weaken the conclusion:

D. If carpentry is of WORSE quality in a hotel, then the odds that the hotel will be abandoned and, ultimately, demolished are HIGHER.

THEREFORE: The author cannot objectively CONCLUDE that masters who made carpets for hotels before 1930 were more skillful, BECAUSE he is most probably comparing the residual number of hotels built before 1930 (that were not demolished because they had good carpentry) with the hotels built after 1930, which include hotels that have bad carpentry, but weren't yet demolished because not enough time has elapsed for that to happen.


I hope the answer is exhaustively comprehensive and I'm sorry if my grammar is a bit odd (not english native). I've been reading this forum for a while and decided to register today:) GMAT in 1 week! Good luck everyone.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 20 May 2013, 06:22
The writer assumes that 'All the carpentry done during 1930...or during a certain era...was good'....he writes with a 'those good old days...' sense.

Whatever 'Retro' he finds he assumes to be good and unique (perhaps.)

He lives no room for the facts that

1. There could be many buildings in the 1930's which used low quality material and wre eventually demolished.

2. Thr could be many buildings with good carpentry work in present era, which he might have never visited.

The 'samples' he took on which he assumes a certain conclusion are not sufficient.............D highlights the same.

It mentions that only those buildings with good carpentry survived......thus highlighting point 1.

Let me know it was helpful.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 30 May 2013, 23:50
ANS D- I need to find a reason to weaken this conclusion. Maybe only slightly or indirectly.

Say there are 100 such pre-1930 old hotels. 90 of them have been demolished because the carpentry was bad

say there are 40 new hotels. Out of the 40 may be 35 hotels have a inferior quality carpentry.

So there are 10 old hotels.....> good carpentry
There are 35 new ones.........> Bad carpentry

Can I conclude that the old hotel is better than the new??
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 01 Jun 2013, 11:40
reasons to eliminate A B C & E are convincing :-)

Though a tough que to choose "D" as correct choice
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Re: I have visited hotels throughout [#permalink] New post 17 Sep 2013, 00:17
TehJay wrote:
vaivish1723 wrote:
I have visited hotels throughout the country and have noticed that in those built before 1930 the quality of the original carpentry work is generally superior to that in hotels built afterward. Clearly carpenters working on hotels before 1930 typically worked with more skill, care, and effort than carpenters who have worked on hotels built subsequently.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the guidebook writer’s argument?

We want to weaken the argument that carpenters before 1930 were better than carpenters after 1930.

A. The quality of original carpentry in hotels is generally far superior to the quality of original carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores. The writer isn't comparing hotels to other buildings - irrelevant.

B. Hotels built since 1930 can generally accommodate more guests than those built before 1930. Irrelevant

C. The materials available to carpenters working before 1930 were not significantly different in quality from the materials available to carpenters working after 1930. STRENGTHENS the argument - if both sets of carpenters have the same quality tools, then the pre-1930's carpenters were probably doing better work with those tools

D. The better the quality of original carpentry in a building, the less likely that building is to fall into disuse and be demolished. Makes sense - it's not that every single hotel built before 1930 was better than the ones built after, but instead that the VERY BEST hotels are still around, while the lesser ones have long since been demolished. The proportion of badly built hotels before 1930 could have been much higher than it is now, but all of the bad ones have been demolished and replaced with modern buildings, so the writer is only seeing the best of the best that were built.

E. The average length of apprenticeship for carpenters has declined significantly since 1930. Would strengthen the argument - carpenters train less now than they used to.


I dont know the answer, Kindly explain along with the right answer


Why it is now E ? why is E irrelevant .. its telling the bad quality work after 1930 is cause of length of apprenticeship .. not because carpenters lack in skill or cared less ..

consider it a cause and effect .. more care and skill >>>>> good furniture ... now I introduce something else, hence it should weaken it .. isnt it ?
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 20 Apr 2014, 08:53
Why can't one infer the following from A: "Original carpentry in hotels is much better than the carpentry in other structures" -- Since there is crappy carpentry in other structures, it shows that the carpenters didn't always have more skill?
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 20 Apr 2014, 09:13
russ9 wrote:
Why can't one infer the following from A: "Original carpentry in hotels is much better than the carpentry in other structures" -- Since there is crappy carpentry in other structures, it shows that the carpenters didn't always have more skill?


Yes. One can infer as you mentioned, but doesn't differentiate difference of works between that before 1930 and after 1930. Your inference can be applied in both cases.

A)The quality of original carpentry in hotels is generally far superior to the quality of original carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores.

Stmnt comparison is between Work before 1930 Vs work afer 1930. (work= Hotel)

Conclusion: Work before 1930 is done with more skill, care.

To weaken the conclusion means 'there is no difference in way carpentry work before 1930 and after 1930'

Statement (A) doesn't hit this conclusion. It compared different kinds of works before 1930. Comparison should be between apple to apple.

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Re: I have visited hotels throughout [#permalink] New post 27 Apr 2014, 05:58
adishail wrote:
vaivish, malik, nishant - try using POE and you will narrow down to 1~2 choices.

Irrelevant A. The quality of original carpentry in hotels is generally far superior to the quality of original carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores.

Irrelevant. Some ppl might try to relate it - more guests - > more damage. If less damage means better work /quality (but this is stretching it too far in GMAT) B. Hotels built since 1930 can generally accommodate more guests than those built before 1930.

Strengthens coz is material is same, then workmanship has to be better. C. The materials available to carpenters working before 1930 were not significantly different in quality from the materials available to carpenters working after 1930.

D. The better the quality of original carpentry in a building, the less likely that building is to fall into disuse and be demolished.

Irrelevant E. The average length of apprenticeship for carpenters has declined significantly since 1930.

Now go back to D. Building still there - > original carpentry is good quality - > it is not the workmanship, but the quality of material. Hence, weakens the claim of high quality of workmanship by the author.



I don't understand how E is the wrong choice. Since the original carpenter spent more time as apprentice then the later ones obviously the original carpentry was of better quality. Please explain
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 23 Aug 2014, 01:21
Guidebook Writer: I have visited hotels throughout the country and have noticed that in those built before 1930 the quality of the original carpentry work is generally superior to that in hotels built afterward. Clearly carpenters working on hotels before 1930 typically worked with more skill, care, and effort than carpenters who have worked on hotels built subsequently.

Conclusion : carpenters before 1930 worked with more skill.
the passage is about work of carpenters in hotels before 1930 and about work of carpenters in hotels after.

Which of the following, if true, most seriously weakens the guidebook writer’s argument?

A. The quality of original carpentry in hotels is generally far superior to the quality of original carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores.-- We should compare hotels to hotels.

B. Hotels built since 1930 can generally accommodate more guests than those built before 1930.- OFS
C. The materials available to carpenters working before 1930 were not significantly different in quality from the materials available to carpenters working after 1930.
- OFS
D. The better the quality of original carpentry in a building, the less likely that building is to fall into disuse and be demolished. - Correct. As the sample is not representative. The author is visiting only hotels of good quality.
E. The average length of apprenticeship for carpenters has declined significantly since 1930. OFS
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 24 Sep 2014, 09:01
I got confused with B. After reading explanation i understand that why D is right.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 03 Oct 2014, 21:28
D should be it, if you read other options none of them weakens the conclusion, only D is left.
Not 100 % sounds corrects but the best in lot.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 04 Apr 2015, 06:44
I don't understand how D works, even though I originally chose it.

I understand that it explains why a lot of hotels built before 1930 of are a high quality, but this also applies to hotels built after 1930's, meaning only buildings with high quality carpentry would be standing, regardless of when they were built.

So to me.... if D were correct, then all the hotels built after 1930 that were less superior to those built before 1930 would have been demolished by electing D, and thus, all hotels would have equal quality carpentry, which goes against the whole premise and advice given in the prompt. Choosing D, to me, seems contradictory to the prompt.
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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2015, 20:15
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Guidebook writer: I have visited hotels throughout the country and have noticed that in those built before 1930 the quality of the original carpentry work is generally superior to that in hotels build afterwards. [This is a factual observation.] Clearly carpenters working on hotels before 1930 typically worked with more skill, car, and effort than carpenters who have worked on hotels build subsequently. [This is a conclusion that would explain the factual observation.]

We are asked to weaken the argument. This means, we have to find another explanation for the factual observation (pre-1930 have good carpentry) that would support it even when the conclusion (pre-1930 carpenters were better than carpenters since) is false. In other words, even if pre-1930 carpenters are no better than later carpenters, why would the critic still observes much higher proportions of good carpentry in pre-1930 hotels?

Notice, some logical reflection has clarified our task for us, but there’s really no glaringly obvious alternate explanation for the higher proportions of good carpentry in pre-1930 hotels. We will have to look for relevant perspectives among the answer choices.

A. The quality of original carpentry in hotels is general far superior to the quality of carpentry in other structures, such as houses and stores.
True, but not helpful. Pre-1930 hotels had better carpentry than pre-1930 houses and stores. Post-1930 hotels have better carpentry than post-1930 houses and stores. This fact does not explain why any difference would not be apparent between pre-1930 hotels and post-1930 hotels.

B. Hotels build since 1930 can generally accommodate more guests than those built before 1930.
How many guests a hotel can accommodate has virtually no bearing on the quality of the carpentry. If the observations about differences in quality of carpentry were made from some kind of survey of hundreds of hotel guests, perhaps we could deduce that more had stayed in pre-1930 hotels simply because those hotels can accommodate more guests. But, the observation was in fact made by a single guidebook writer, a single person, who presumably stayed in a very large number of hotels. That persons conclusions presumably would have absolutely nothing to do with how many other people are staying in the hotel. This fact may well be true, but it’s irrelevant to this argument.

C. The materials available to carpenters working before 1930 were not significantly different in quality from the materials available to carpenters working after 1930.
Same materials in both time periods would not provide an alternative explanation for the difference in quality between pre-1930 and post-1930 hotels. In fact, arguably, this fact would strengthen the argument, not weaken it.

D. The better the quality of original carpentry in a building, the less likely that building is to fall into disuse and be demolished.
This is fascinating. Old buildings with fine carpentry are more likely to be around still. Old buildings with mediocre carpentry are more likely to be no longer with us. Remember, the guidebook writer was implicitly speaking of proportions. The factual observation was, essentially: if we look at the proportion of pre-1930 hotel that have fine carpentry, and the proportion of post-1930 hotel that have fine carpentry, then the first proportion is greater than the second proportion. The guidebook writer argued that differences in the quality of the carpenters caused this difference in proportions.

This new fact provides an alternative explanation. Suppose carpenters now are just as good, just as skillful and careful, as carpenters from before 1930. For simplicity, suppose, on average, 3% of hotels built have fine carpentry, and the other 97% have mediocre/substandard carpentry, and assume that was just as true before 1930 as it is now. For hotels build before 1930, essentially all of those hotels with poor carpentry would have been knocked down, and the only ones still standing would be the 3% that had fine carpentry. Thus, when the guidebook writer goes to pre-1930 hotels still standing, still in service, the carpentry in almost all of them is of high quality. By contrast, hotels build in the past decade are all still standing, regardless of the quality of the carpentry. When the guidebook writer goes to these, only 3% have fine carpentry, and the rest do not. Thus, the guidebook writer could experience vast differences in the proportion of hotels with fine carpentry, and it would have nothing to do with the inherent quality of the respective carpenters. This is the correct answer.

E. The average length of apprenticeship for carpenters has declines significantly since 1930.
If anything, this would strengthen the argument. It would explain why pre-1930 carpenters would be more skillful. This does not weaken the argument.

Notice that we were asked to weaken the argument, and a couple of the answers did the opposite: provided information to strengthen the argument. That’s a typical GMAT CR pattern. Similarly, when you are asked to strengthen an argument, expect to see a couple answer choices that weaken the argument.

Notice, also, in all five answer choices, our reasoning was deeply bound to the context itself. We had to think through the details of the context to separate what was relevant from what was not relevant. That is quite different from the exercises of formal logic, which tends toward abstraction. GMAT CR logic is all about getting our hand dirty in the rough and tumble of real-world issues. That what the GMAT asks you to do because, once you’re a manager with your MBA and you’re out in the business world making decisions, that’s precisely what you are going to be doing all day every day in your job.

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Re: Guidebook Writer: have visited hotels throughout the country   [#permalink] 05 Apr 2015, 20:15

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