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Have Vs Will

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Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 00:29
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Hi all,

I want to know whether the following two sentences are same in meaning:

1. I am concerned with what I have done.
2. I am concerned with what I have and will do.
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 01:32
1. I am concerned with what I have done. ---> what he did in the past
2. I am concerned with what I have and will do. --> what he possesses and what he will do in future
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 01:54
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I have found one SC on Kaplan test:

The Limon Dance Company believes that, since the death of the Jose Limon in 1972, they have and will continue to perpetuate the shared artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey, who both choreographed works in the company's active property.

What you think could be the correct sentence?


neoreaves wrote:
1. I am concerned with what I have done. ---> what he did in the past
2. I am concerned with what I have and will do. --> what he possesses and what he will do in future

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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 02:29
ykaiim wrote:
I have found one SC on Kaplan test:

The Limon Dance Company believes that, since the death of the Jose Limon in 1972, they have and will continue to perpetuate the shared artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey, who both choreographed works in the company's active property.

What you think could be the correct sentence?


neoreaves wrote:
1. I am concerned with what I have done. ---> what he did in the past
2. I am concerned with what I have and will do. --> what he possesses and what he will do in future


"they will continue"..should be used instead of "they have and will continue"
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 03:15
I think it is an incorrect sentence because "they" doesnt have a clear antecedent
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 03:42
No, the sentence is correct in its sense.

neoreaves wrote:
I think it is an incorrect sentence because "they" doesnt have a clear antecedent

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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 04:25
so you are saying this is the answer ?? can you also tell me the source of this question please ?
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 04:29
The Limon Dance Company believes that, since the death of the Jose Limon in 1972, they


look at this ..."they" can not refer to the Limon Dance Company because it is a singular ....am i missing something here ?
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 04:30
neo,

Please read carefully what we are discussing here.

neoreaves wrote:
The Limon Dance Company believes that, since the death of the Jose Limon in 1972, they


look at this ..."they" can not refer to the Limon Dance Company because it is a singular ....am i missing something here ?

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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 05:59
ok forgetting "they" ...

will have and will do --> this means a continuation

have done --> means done in the past ..there is no continuation
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 06:12
The Limon Dance Company believes that, since the death of the Jose Limon in 1972, they have and will continue to perpetuate the shared artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey, who both choreographed works in the company's active property.

A. they have and will continue to perpetuate the shared artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey,

B. they have and will continue to perpetuate Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey shared artistic vision,

C. it has and will continue to perpetuate the shared vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey,

D. it has perpetuated and will continue perpetuating the artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey shared,

E. it has continued to perpetuate the shared artistic vision of Limon and his mentor and collaborator Doris Humphrey,

I hope this will help more.
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 06:16
ok ...IMO E ....

" it has " --> indicates a continuation ...so anything more is redundant ....in this case "it has and will continue" sounds redundant to me ....well those are my two cents ....what is the OA btw ?
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 14:48
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'has continued and will continue' is indeed redundant. 'Will continue' means that it will keep going; by definition it (whatever it is) must have started some time in the past, or we'd be starting, not continuing. Thus, since anything continuing by definition has been happening, saying explicitly that it has been happening is redundant.

But to go back to the original issue:

Quote:
I am concerned with what I have and will do.

This one is in error for a different reason. Here, [have and will] are both connected to the verb [do]. That's clearly incorrect; 'I am concerned with what I have do' makes no sense. In order for the above sentence to be correct, it would have to be 'I am concerned with what I have done and will do'
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 04 May 2010, 21:07
Eli,

Thanks for your expanation. Even I agree with your point. I have referred Manhattan SC and it that its clearly mentioned that - If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present then we use Present Perfect tense. But, does it means that -
If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present and will continue to happen in the future then the use Present Perfect tense is correct.

Can you explain more on the SC problem above. E is the OA but I am not convienced with it.

KapTeacherEli wrote:
'has continued and will continue' is indeed redundant. 'Will continue' means that it will keep going; by definition it (whatever it is) must have started some time in the past, or we'd be starting, not continuing. Thus, since anything continuing by definition has been happening, saying explicitly that it has been happening is redundant.

But to go back to the original issue:

Quote:
I am concerned with what I have and will do.

This one is in error for a different reason. Here, [have and will] are both connected to the verb [do]. That's clearly incorrect; 'I am concerned with what I have do' makes no sense. In order for the above sentence to be correct, it would have to be 'I am concerned with what I have done and will do'

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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 05 May 2010, 07:30
ykaiim I see what you are saying

happened in past + going in the present = present perfect tense

is the below correct too?

happened in past + going in the present + will happen in future = present perfect tense
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 05 May 2010, 07:52
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ykaiim wrote:
Eli,

Thanks for your expanation. Even I agree with your point. I have referred Manhattan SC and it that its clearly mentioned that - If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present then we use Present Perfect tense. But, does it means that -
If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present and will continue to happen in the future then the use Present Perfect tense is correct.

Can you explain more on the SC problem above. E is the OA but I am not convienced with it.
ykaiim,

Remember, the GMAT test grammar, but it also tests style. 'Have continued and will continue' is grammatically correct, but it contains redundant information, which makes it stylistically incorrect. Grammar always takes precedence over style on the GMAT, but since there is another answer choice that is grammatically sound but also avoids that repetition, that second answer is the one we must select.
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 09 May 2010, 00:33
Eli,

Can you provide some explanation on this problem:

If the proposed expenditures for gathering information abroad are reduced even further, international news reports have been and will continue to diminish in number and quality.
(A) have been and will continue to diminish
(B) have and will continue to diminish
(C) will continue to diminish, as they already did,
(D) will continue to diminish, as they have already,
(E) will continue to diminish [CORRECT]

Here also we have CONTINUE in the sentence but the correct choice doesn't have HAVE. If I go with your reasoninng then the correct answer should be -

HAVE continue to diminish.

Please correct me where I am wrong.


KapTeacherEli wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
Eli,

Thanks for your expanation. Even I agree with your point. I have referred Manhattan SC and it that its clearly mentioned that - If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present then we use Present Perfect tense. But, does it means that -
If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present and will continue to happen in the future then the use Present Perfect tense is correct.

Can you explain more on the SC problem above. E is the OA but I am not convienced with it.
ykaiim,

Remember, the GMAT test grammar, but it also tests style. 'Have continued and will continue' is grammatically correct, but it contains redundant information, which makes it stylistically incorrect. Grammar always takes precedence over style on the GMAT, but since there is another answer choice that is grammatically sound but also avoids that repetition, that second answer is the one we must select.

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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 10 May 2010, 19:40
Expert's post
ykaiim wrote:
Eli,

Can you provide some explanation on this problem:

If the proposed expenditures for gathering information abroad are reduced even further, international news reports have been and will continue to diminish in number and quality.
(A) have been and will continue to diminish
(B) have and will continue to diminish
(C) will continue to diminish, as they already did,
(D) will continue to diminish, as they have already,
(E) will continue to diminish [CORRECT]

Here also we have CONTINUE in the sentence but the correct choice doesn't have HAVE. If I go with your reasoninng then the correct answer should be -

HAVE continue to diminish.

Please correct me where I am wrong.


KapTeacherEli wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
Eli,

Thanks for your expanation. Even I agree with your point. I have referred Manhattan SC and it that its clearly mentioned that - If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present then we use Present Perfect tense. But, does it means that -
If an action is happened in the past and it is continued to the present and will continue to happen in the future then the use Present Perfect tense is correct.

Can you explain more on the SC problem above. E is the OA but I am not convienced with it.
Hi ykaiim,

Sorry I wasn't clear. 'Have continue' is NEVER correct. From a grammatical point of view, the auxiliary verb 'have' in the present perfect must always be followed by the past participle.

(A) and (B) are therefore incorrect because of the rule of ellipsis--omitted words. In 'have been and will continue' and 'have and will continue', we're leaving out a word: the first instance of the verb 'continue' in each case. When we have orphaned auxiliary verbs like 'have been', we can't make up a new verb tense out of thin air. We must use the one we are provided elsewhere in the sentence: 'continue'. Filling in that missing word to test for correctness, we get 'have been continue and will continue' and 'have continue and will continue', both of which are obviously grammatically wrong.

The remaining two answer choices do away with the ellipses, moving the part about the past to an intervening phrase. 'Already did' is grammatically incorrect because the diminishment continues to the future. But we are still left with (D) and (E)

Here's the confusing part--and the unique behavior of the verb 'continue'. Remember, the present perfect tense refers to an event that began in the past and continues to the present. What about 'continue'? Well, the verb 'continue' refers to an event that began in past and continues to the present!

Thus, the trap of choice (D), and the trap from the previous problem. Because the verb 'continue' always implies the present perfect by its very definition, actually including the present perfect in our sentence is redundant. Saying that it 'already has diminished', or (as in the Limon problem) 'has continued and will continue', is considered stylistically incorrect by the GMAT, because the present perfect explicitly states information that is already implied, and therefore adds nothing but word count to the sentence.
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 19 May 2010, 22:28
In the "Limon Dance Company" question, the original sentence suggests that it had perpetuated in the past and will do so in the future too.
Option E says only that "it has continued to perpetuate.." but mentions nothing about the future. This changes the meaning of the original sentence, which I suppose is unacceptable.
I think option C addresses this issue and that C should be the answer.

If your reason for defending Option E for the Limon Dance question --> is that the answer to the question on "international news", is ("will continue to diminish") --> this answer does address the fact that it had already been diminishing.
But option E in the Limon Dance Compay does not address the perpetuation in the future, which is why the answer should be C

Is there anything wrong in this line of thought?
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Re: Have Vs Will [#permalink] New post 10 Jul 2010, 06:22
Eli,
Thanks a lot for the explanation!
Re: Have Vs Will   [#permalink] 10 Jul 2010, 06:22
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