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# HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT

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SVP
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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Location: Southern California
Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
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07 Aug 2008, 19:51
I just noticed this on the HBS website:

GMAT Score Range 550-800
Middle 50% GMAT Score Range 700-750
Average GPA 3.66

3.66 $($)@$(@*$)$()#*. Maybe I should just bow out now? _________________ Check out the new Career Forum http://gmatclub.com/forum/133 Director Joined: 18 Sep 2006 Posts: 962 Location: Chicago, IL Schools: Chicago Booth 2010 Followers: 6 Kudos [?]: 27 [0], given: 0 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 07 Aug 2008, 20:02 terp06 wrote: I just noticed this on the HBS website: GMAT Score Range 550-800 Middle 50% GMAT Score Range 700-750 Average GPA 3.66 3.66$($)@$(@*$)$()#*. Maybe I should just bow out now?

3.66 isnt THAT much more than other top schools that hover around 3.5 average
Director
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07 Aug 2008, 20:12
Look at that range - fricking 550!

Must be an incredible applicant in all other areas, extremely impressive.
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07 Aug 2008, 20:17
I'd say it's quite a hike up from the past years and also quite a bit higher than the other Top 10 schools (with the exception of Stanford).

I would venture to guess that their average GMAT score this year must have been in the range of 725-730.

For a reference point, Cornell's GPA last year was 3.31, Darden's was 3.33, and Duke's was 3.38. This is a variation of negative .12-.19 from a mean of 3.5. Cornell, Duke, and Darden have the lowest average GPA, as well as the highest acceptance rate out of the Elite Tier.

A positive .16 variation from a mean of 3.5 really puts Harvard in a different tier from the rest of the UE schools. Last year, Harvard's average GPA was a 3.63 and Stanford's was a 3.61. I would venture to guess that Stanford should definitely be in the mid-3.6 range this year as well.
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07 Aug 2008, 20:31
I am not really shocked at the GPA or GMAT since it is not that big of an increase. They were close to that level anyways 2009 gpa was 3.63 and gmat was 713. The fact that 41% of their class is so young is what shocked me the most and where the students are coming from shows heavy drawing from certain areas...heck there are more people coming from non-profit than investment banking. Tons of PE types and consultants (probably 85% of which are from M/B/B).

Per 2008 Us News.
HBS: 3.63 / 713
Stanford: 3.61 / 721
Wharton: 3.53 / 712
MIT: 3.5 / 705
Kellogg: 3.5 / 704
Chicago: 3.5 / 709
Tuck: 3.46 / 713
Haas: 3.57 / 710
Columbia: 3.4 / 707
NYU: 3.4 / 700
UCLA: 3.6 / 704
Ross: 3.3 / 700
Yale: 3.47 / 700
Cornell: 3.31 / 682

Known so far this year.
Harvard: 3.66 / ? (0.03+ / ?)
Wharton: 3.5 / 715 (-0.03 / +3)
Kellogg: ? / 712 (? / +8)
Yale: 3.5 / 718 (+0.03 / +18)
Cornell: ? / 695 (? / +13)

I hate to be the one to break it to you but the reality is if you have a 720 and a 3.5 you are basically going to be AVERAGE at best for most top 10 schools. And the honest answer is depending on your demographic and can be much higher or lower...schools wont tell you that but its true. Certain groups definitely bring up the averages for others.

One thing to remember about the ranges for HBS 50%, there are going to be far more 720s than 750s. Also there is probably one 550, maybe a few others in the 500s. They arent even underrepresented minorities necessarily...their dads could be the ruler of some foreign country or the CEO of a fortune 50 company. There are lots of reasons people with such low scores get in...in a class that large maybe HBS lets one low score in just so they can say, see we let in people with 550s.
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Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
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07 Aug 2008, 20:34
I fail to see how the GPA is THAT impressive....GPA is the single most useless and unfair piece of data used in the bschool application process because a 3.6 from one school is completely different from a 3.6 from another school. I don't understand why US bschools even bother publishing that data or why rankings even use it.

There's maybe like ~5 undergrad universities in the US that are truly rigorous. Remember many top schools, feeder schools to top MBA programs, actually have grade inflation.

And international school GPAs are generally not calculated into the average at all.
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07 Aug 2008, 20:50
At least you're not applying to Harvard Law School. The 25-75% GPA range there is 3.75-3.95; which means 25% of the people have GPAs over 3.95. A picnic compared with Yale law school though at 3.77-3.97.
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07 Aug 2008, 21:25
1
KUDOS
The applicant probably started a successful leper colony in India, figured out how to make \$1B from the colony, all while inspiring the lepers to paint abstract art. In the process he lost his own arms due to leprosy..... and because of his lack-of-skill using the mouth stick, he was not able to finish both GMAT sections on time.....hence 550.

sam77sam7 wrote:
Look at that range - fricking 550!

Must be an incredible applicant in all other areas, extremely impressive.

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08 Aug 2008, 04:43
pelihu wrote:
At least you're not applying to Harvard Law School. The 25-75% GPA range there is 3.75-3.95; which means 25% of the people have GPAs over 3.95. A picnic compared with Yale law school though at 3.77-3.97.

With the rampant grade inflation going on, especially at the Ivies, I'm sure H/S GPAs are trending in this direction (but won't reach the levels of Med and Law schools).
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08 Aug 2008, 06:16
sam77sam7 wrote:
Look at that range - fricking 550!

Must be an incredible applicant in all other areas, extremely impressive.

Or has fantastic legacy connections ::sigh::
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Schools: F2010 - HBS (R1 - denied w/o interview ), INSEAD (R1 - admitted), Wharton (R1 - waitlisted & ding), Ivey (R2 - admitted w/ 60% tuition)
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08 Aug 2008, 06:24
I think the upward trend is going to continue ... yes grade inflation is certainly a factor here ... but to a large extent it balances out since I am yet to hear of a single US UG university which doesnt have significant grade inflation. Before anyone jumps me .. I too did my UG in the US and saw it first hand.

sonibubu wrote:
pelihu wrote:
At least you're not applying to Harvard Law School. The 25-75% GPA range there is 3.75-3.95; which means 25% of the people have GPAs over 3.95. A picnic compared with Yale law school though at 3.77-3.97.

With the rampant grade inflation going on, especially at the Ivies, I'm sure H/S GPAs are trending in this direction (but won't reach the levels of Med and Law schools).

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Wharton Sept 2010 Interview Invite Oct 30, 2009 Waitlisted & Ding
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Ivey May 2010 Interview Invite Nov 23, 2009 Admit + $$SVP Joined: 04 Dec 2007 Posts: 1689 Schools: Kellogg '11 Followers: 14 Kudos [?]: 194 [0], given: 31 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 06:29 Sure it's higher than it was in previous but as has been noted in other threads, the app process is getting more and more competitive; I imagine that signif more of the applicants have amazing profiles, leading to higher GPAs, GMATs, etc. At the end of the day, the GPA is one factor measured in the application. I agree with aceman that it's not the most accurate indicator of how you'll do but for now, it's something they look at. I'm not planning on worrying about it too much - my GPA would've been lower than HSB's avg from last year too - just will spend my efforts on making the essays spectacular! Manager Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 242 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 23 [0], given: 0 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 06:40 sm332 wrote: I think the upward trend is going to continue ... yes grade inflation is certainly a factor here ... but to a large extent it balances out since I am yet to hear of a single US UG university which doesnt have significant grade inflation. Before anyone jumps me .. I too did my UG in the US and saw it first hand. I think it varies widely. The average grade in my major at a top state school was 2.5. In a class of 40, there would typically be one, maybe two 4.0s. Engineering and physics courses were even worse. My friend scored seven standard deviations above the mean for his final grade in one of his intro engineering courses. Grade? 3.3. Edit: I should add that he went to HBS about five years after graduating. He had a 3.6 in engineering, which is more like a 3.9 proforma GPA. Not all 3.6s are created equal, so the average is pretty meaningless I think. Given that a lot of strong students in grade deflated majors "only" hit 3.3-3.5, I wonder what that says about the GPAs of those in "easier" majors -- you are probably looking at the 3.8 range as an average. If you are a poli sci major, irrespective of where you went to school, I doubt a 3.6 is going to help you out that much. That being said, I think it's probably easier to earn a 3.6 as a poli sci major at a private school that has a mean GPA of 3.3-3.4 per class than a state school that has a 2.5 average in the same subject. Of course the preference is still for the private school, but nobody said life is fair. SVP Joined: 24 Aug 2006 Posts: 2132 Followers: 3 Kudos [?]: 121 [0], given: 0 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 07:03 pelihu wrote: At least you're not applying to Harvard Law School. The 25-75% GPA range there is 3.75-3.95; which means 25% of the people have GPAs over 3.95. A picnic compared with Yale law school though at 3.77-3.97. That is just mind boggling, or is it bottling? Damn movies . . . Current Student Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Posts: 370 Location: New York, Paris Schools: Wharton '11 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 6 [0], given: 2 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 07:55 The GMAT score is scary. And I think I was happy with my 710 when I got out of the exam center... My optimism has turned south since then, that's for sure. Director Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 851 Location: Chicago Schools: Chicago Booth 2011 Followers: 11 Kudos [?]: 94 [0], given: 1 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 08:12 Anyone who graduated with an engineering degree probably did not gain the benefit of grade inflation. Of course this can't be said across the board. E.g.: Anyone who graduates with over a 3.0 from Berkeley in engineering is doing well, as their eng profs are specifically instructed to keep the avg eng GPA at 2.7. Only 16% of each class is allowed to get an A -- thus a true Bell curve. The avg eng GPA at my school was 2.7, whereas the overall grad GPA was around 3.3 if I remember correctly. sm332 wrote: I think the upward trend is going to continue ... yes grade inflation is certainly a factor here ... but to a large extent it balances out since I am yet to hear of a single US UG university which doesnt have significant grade inflation. Before anyone jumps me .. I too did my UG in the US and saw it first hand. sonibubu wrote: pelihu wrote: At least you're not applying to Harvard Law School. The 25-75% GPA range there is 3.75-3.95; which means 25% of the people have GPAs over 3.95. A picnic compared with Yale law school though at 3.77-3.97. With the rampant grade inflation going on, especially at the Ivies, I'm sure H/S GPAs are trending in this direction (but won't reach the levels of Med and Law schools). Director Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 597 Location: Detroit, MI Followers: 3 Kudos [?]: 29 [0], given: 0 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 08:41 kidderek wrote: That is just mind boggling, or is it bottling? Damn movies . . . That would be... boggling. SVP Joined: 11 Mar 2008 Posts: 1634 Location: Southern California Schools: Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD) Followers: 8 Kudos [?]: 197 [0], given: 0 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 08:42 sonibubu wrote: Anyone who graduated with an engineering degree probably did not gain the benefit of grade inflation. Of course this can't be said across the board. E.g.: Anyone who graduates with over a 3.0 from Berkeley in engineering is doing well, as their eng profs are specifically instructed to keep the avg eng GPA at 2.7. Only 16% of each class is allowed to get an A -- thus a true Bell curve. The avg eng GPA at my school was 2.7, whereas the overall grad GPA was around 3.3 if I remember correctly. Are you planning to mention notes like these in the optional essay? _________________ Check out the new Career Forum http://gmatclub.com/forum/133 Director Joined: 20 Aug 2007 Posts: 851 Location: Chicago Schools: Chicago Booth 2011 Followers: 11 Kudos [?]: 94 [0], given: 1 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 09:23 No. Just to minimize confusion from my statements below though, I didn't attend Berkeley. I'm sure adcoms know about grade inflation and deflation at different schools. terp06 wrote: sonibubu wrote: Anyone who graduated with an engineering degree probably did not gain the benefit of grade inflation. Of course this can't be said across the board. E.g.: Anyone who graduates with over a 3.0 from Berkeley in engineering is doing well, as their eng profs are specifically instructed to keep the avg eng GPA at 2.7. Only 16% of each class is allowed to get an A -- thus a true Bell curve. The avg eng GPA at my school was 2.7, whereas the overall grad GPA was around 3.3 if I remember correctly. Are you planning to mention notes like these in the optional essay? Current Student Joined: 14 Apr 2008 Posts: 453 Schools: F2010 - HBS (R1 - denied w/o interview ), INSEAD (R1 - admitted), Wharton (R1 - waitlisted & ding), Ivey (R2 - admitted w/ 60% tuition) WE 1: 3.5yrs as a Strategy Consultant - Big 4 Followers: 14 Kudos [?]: 36 [0], given: 16 Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT [#permalink] ### Show Tags 08 Aug 2008, 11:50 considering they are several hundred ''major" colleges/Uni's in the US i doubt whether they have a matrix laid out to say Berkley + Engr means 3.5 is great whereas Haverford + English Lit 3.8 means par for the course. I just dont think they will spin their wheels doing that. Anyways - sonibubu wrote: No. Just to minimize confusion from my statements below though, I didn't attend Berkeley. I'm sure adcoms know about grade inflation and deflation at different schools. terp06 wrote: sonibubu wrote: Anyone who graduated with an engineering degree probably did not gain the benefit of grade inflation. Of course this can't be said across the board. E.g.: Anyone who graduates with over a 3.0 from Berkeley in engineering is doing well, as their eng profs are specifically instructed to keep the avg eng GPA at 2.7. Only 16% of each class is allowed to get an A -- thus a true Bell curve. The avg eng GPA at my school was 2.7, whereas the overall grad GPA was around 3.3 if I remember correctly. Are you planning to mention notes like these in the optional essay? _________________ INSEAD Sept 2010 Interview Invite Nov 5, 2009 Admit & Matriculating Wharton Sept 2010 Interview Invite Oct 30, 2009 Waitlisted & Ding Harvard Sept 2010 Ding without Interview Ivey May 2010 Interview Invite Nov 23, 2009 Admit +$$

Re: HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT   [#permalink] 08 Aug 2008, 11:50

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