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High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT: complete!

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High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT: complete! [#permalink] New post 30 Nov 2013, 16:12
Hi all,

I've been studying for the GMAT a few hours each week since September now that I've decided to apply to business school. So far I have focused entirely on quant, given that I did pretty well on the LSAT (175) and I've read that GMAT CR is easier (seems easier from my samplings).

I have completed the 5 MGMAT quant guides and the corresponding OG questions for each type. My strategy to this point has been to focus only on accuracy- I consider myself good at math but am admittedly rusty (no math other than Statistics for the past 5 years). Thus, I've just been slowly going through each book, taking notes, and completing the OG questions in a completely untimed setting. I have not yet taken a practice exam.

After 450+ OG quant questions I answered roughly 89% correct (224/253) in problem solving and 85% (172/203) in data sufficiency. What should my next steps be? Would it be helpful for me to complete all 450 again or should I just focus on my incorrect answers? As I go back through them, should I do them grouped by type again, or should I begin to practice switching between different types? I also have the official quant review book- should I go through these questions first? If I'm shooting for Q44+, is my accuracy good enough (or on pace to potentially be?)

I am in absolutely no rush to take the test, so I have no problem taking the longer, more thorough approach if necessary. With that said, I've learned from my LSAT studies that untimed accuracy only gets you so far, so if I should start practicing going at pace, or take a practice test, I'm open to that as well.

Thanks in advance for your help- and let me know if you need any LSAT tips!

Last edited by mickeyd on 01 Mar 2014, 12:45, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Help w/ next steps in Quant? LSAT Ace trying to perfect math [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2013, 15:12
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mickeyd wrote:
Hi all,

I've been studying for the GMAT a few hours each week since September now that I've decided to apply to business school. So far I have focused entirely on quant, given that I did pretty well on the LSAT (175) and I've read that GMAT CR is easier (seems easier from my samplings).

I have completed the 5 MGMAT quant guides and the corresponding OG questions for each type. My strategy to this point has been to focus only on accuracy- I consider myself good at math but am admittedly rusty (no math other than Statistics for the past 5 years). Thus, I've just been slowly going through each book, taking notes, and completing the OG questions in a completely untimed setting. I have not yet taken a practice exam.

After 450+ OG quant questions I answered roughly 89% correct (224/253) in problem solving and 85% (172/203) in data sufficiency. What should my next steps be? Would it be helpful for me to complete all 450 again or should I just focus on my incorrect answers? As I go back through them, should I do them grouped by type again, or should I begin to practice switching between different types? I also have the official quant review book- should I go through these questions first? If I'm shooting for Q44+, is my accuracy good enough (or on pace to potentially be?)

I am in absolutely no rush to take the test, so I have no problem taking the longer, more thorough approach if necessary. With that said, I've learned from my LSAT studies that untimed accuracy only gets you so far, so if I should start practicing going at pace, or take a practice test, I'm open to that as well.

Thanks in advance for your help- and let me know if you need any LSAT tips!

Dear mickeyd,
I'm happy to help. :-)

The first thing I'll say is: don't underestimate GMAT Verbal. Yes, the RC about the same as on the LSAT and the CR is a tad easier, but absolutely do not underestimate the challenge that GMAT SC presents.

It sounds like you are already in pretty good shape with the Quant. A few pieces of advice.
1) From this point forward, do absolutely everything under a strict time limit. Do not allow yourself the luxury of untimed practice any more. That's a perniciously bad habit. Accuracy when you are sauntering through the problems and accuracy when you are sprinting are two different beasts, and the former only does so much to prepare you for the latter. You may find this post helpful:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/how-to-do- ... th-faster/
2) Go back to the problems you got wrong. Each one contains potential gold for you. Each one in a separate post, post them here in GMAT club (search to make sure they haven't been posted already), and explain --- when I did this problem, I forgot this, and got this answer --- explain your whole thought process when first doing the problem as well as your current understanding of the mistake. Then ask for feedback from experts --- you are more than welcome to send me a private message with a link if you would like my feedback. Recognize that your understanding of why you got any particular question wrong may or may not be the full story, and may not even contain the most important parts of the story. I would often see this with students --- a student would say, "I got this question wrong because I needed to use A and I didn't remember to use A", but then I would see that the student needed to use not only A but also B & C.
3) One excellent source of challenge problems would be Nova's Math Prep Course:
http://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/novas-gmat ... ok-review/
This is a large collection of practice problems with answers. There are NO explanations --- if you don't understand why you got something wrong, you will have to post it here to get an explanation.
4) I'll also recommend Magoosh. We have a large bank of math lessons, that would help to reinforce content and expose you to time-saving strategies. WE have 400+ practice questions, each with it's own video explanation, for accelerated learning. Here's a PS question:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/questions/100
Here's a DS question:
http://gmat.magoosh.com/questions/1024
When you submit your answer to each of those, the next page will contain the video explanation.

I hope all this helps. Feel free to let me know if you have any further questions.

Mike :-)
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Re: Help w/ next steps in Quant? LSAT Ace trying to perfect math [#permalink] New post 05 Dec 2013, 15:50
Take a gmat practice test and see how you do.

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Re: Help w/ next steps in Quant? LSAT Ace trying to perfect math [#permalink] New post 06 Dec 2013, 20:20
mikemcgarry wrote:
Dear mickeyd,
I'm happy to help. :-)


Awesome, thanks for the tips! I'm working through the Quant Guide and then I'm going to take a practice test to see how I do on the Math. I wanted to know my stuff before taking a timed practice test, which is why I did all the untimed work (I teach the LSAT and most students rush to take practice exams too quickly).

Definitely not underestimating Sentence Correction- gonna tackle that next once I get the math under control. Thanks!
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Re: Help w/ next steps in Quant? LSAT Ace trying to perfect math [#permalink] New post 14 Feb 2014, 13:24
Hi all,

Just wanted to give a quick update, especially as a future resource for anyone transitioning from LSAT to GMAT.

I took an additional month to work on untimed math and the Sentence Correction section (which I picked up fairly quickly), then took a Manhattan CAT for my first practice exam. I ended up with:

640 (Q34 V45)

I was only able to answer 24 questions in Quant. I left the remaining 13 blank. Sounds like I should have listened more closely to the advice I received above regarding timing. I will focus my practice exclusively on timed practice from here on out.

Verbal was generally a breeze. Proficiency in LSAT reasoning and reading comp translated very well (I did not review those GMAT strategies prior to the test). After reviewing my first practice exam, I think I might be able to scrape a few more points in the section, perhaps a 47 or 48.

All in all, I'm still optimistic, as I don't consider myself to be "bad" at math, but definitely need to work on my pace. I'll admit that I was very taken aback by the timed setting and definitely "froze" during Quant.
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 16 Feb 2014, 17:12
Took my second CAT today.

CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)

The only difference is that instead of answering 24 quant questions, I answered 25. I got 9 wrong just like the last time. All questions were 700-800 but 2.

I really have no idea how I'm supposed to get substantially faster in quant. Recently I've been doing OG problems under time (2min/question) and can generally get 9/10 correct in 20 minutes. I just do so much worse when I fire up the Manhattan CATs.

Unfortunately at this point I've used all of the OG problems and all of the Manhattan Quant question banks. Any advice for how to increase my speed?
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 17 Feb 2014, 13:42
Hey mickeyd, I am a similar situation to you. Higher LSAT and already did the law school thing.

I just took my first MGMT test 650 (V41 Q37), no benuo....So I ordered up the MGMT Quant package. Hoping to pull a 750 on the real thing in June, but work is not slowing down and it looks like I have a high bar to reach top 6 Bschool.

Good luck!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 19 Feb 2014, 10:54
SPCsGreatest wrote:
Hey mickeyd, I am a similar situation to you. Higher LSAT and already did the law school thing.

I just took my first MGMT test 650 (V41 Q37), no benuo....So I ordered up the MGMT Quant package. Hoping to pull a 750 on the real thing in June, but work is not slowing down and it looks like I have a high bar to reach top 6 Bschool.

Good luck!


Hey! Pretty awesome score for your first take. Keep in mind I scored my Q34 and Q36 AFTER going through the MGMAT Quant package, so you've definitely got a nice head start.

Recently I've been doing a lot of timed practice. I am hesitant to dive into my most valuable remaining material (GMATPrep Question Pack 1, GMATPrep free exams, Exam Pack 1) before sorting out my speed.

Here's my tentative Quant plan for now: (I have already done all OG and QR questions in an untimed setting)

1. Complete sets of 15 hard questions from OG and Quant Review Guide, 2 minutes each. (Already complete, with mixed results)
2. "Retake" the MGMAT CATs #1 and #2 to try to at least complete them at a 2 minute pace.
3. "Take" the MGMAT Question Banks and force myself to complete them at the 2 minute pace.
4. Take the free GMATClub Quant test.
[and of course, review review review all of this]

If I see progress from this plan, I will move forward with my remaining MGMAT CATs (#3-#6) and the GMATPrep software (Question Pack and exams).

If anyone has comments or advice, it'd be greatly appreciated. My goal is a consistent Q40.
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 21 Feb 2014, 19:04
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Update:

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
GMATClub Quant: noscore (Q45)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46) Yeah!

I was able to finish all 37 questions, though I guessed on the last 3 (and strangely got them all right). So Quant may be a tad inflated, but a huge improvement nonetheless.

I'm only shooting for above 700, so consistency is all I'm really asking for at this point. Super amped though!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 22 Feb 2014, 11:46
mickeyd wrote:
Update:

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
GMATClub Quant: noscore (Q45)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46) Yeah!

I was able to finish all 37 questions, though I guessed on the last 3 (and strangely got them all right). So Quant may be a tad inflated, but a huge improvement nonetheless.

I'm only shooting for above 700, so consistency is all I'm really asking for at this point. Super amped though!


Nice. Work has made MGMT studying a bit impossible this week, but its awesome to see that jump happen.
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 22 Feb 2014, 18:44
Took another one today:

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46)
GMATPrep 1: 720 (V41 Q48)

The rumors about MGMAT CATs seemed to hold up (1. MGMAT Verbal scoring is too lenient 2. MGMAT Quant is more difficult than GMATPrep). Little disappointed about the Verbal score but upon review I don't really see where the extra points would have come from. Shocked about the Q48..

Tomorrow I will review and take GMATPrep 2. If I break 700 again I think I'll schedule my exam for 2 weeks out.
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 23 Feb 2014, 15:59
Just finished another one:

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46)
GMATPrep 1: 720 (V41 Q48)
GMATPrep 2: 770 (V46 Q50)

Was completely in the zone for Quant, which allowed me to relax a bunch for Verbal (which I consider to be my better section). I'm going to check in with my boss this week and see if I can schedule my exam for next Monday (this weekend isn't available in my area.)

Cheers!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 24 Feb 2014, 19:16
Six days til test day, took another CAT. Decided to challenge myself with MGMAT Quant.

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46)
GMATPrep 1: 720 (V41 Q48)
GMATPrep 2: 770 (V46 Q50)
MGMAT CAT4: 720 (V45 Q44)

I only missed 3 Verbal questions, only 1 in the first 30. I think it's pretty silly to calculate a V45 from that.

I missed 17 Quant, 10 of my last 12. Given that I've done OG and GMATPrep exclusively for the past 3 days, I can tell that MGMAT Quant is much more difficult.







----------------------------------------------------------------------

I also noticed 2 concepts in MGMAT's CATs that do not follow acceptable LSAT logic.

1. Most are = Some are not

On the LSAT, if an argument tells you "Most people in this room are women," it is still entirely possible that "All people in this room are women." You are incorrect on the LSAT to assume that "Some are not women/Some are men."

However, the MGMAT CR question "Creative Professionals" ignores this logical gap.

2. Perception vs. Reality

On the LSAT, if a premise tells you "All men say that they are strong," you don't know if any of them actually are strong. All you know is that they say that they are.

However, on MGMAT CR question "High School Finances," you are told that "one-third of high school seniors say that they have 'significant financial responsibilities.'" In order to select the correct answer, one must accept that the seniors actually have such responsibilities.

I know the LSAT doesn't mimic GMAT logic exactly, but I am not convinced that MGMAT intended to overlook these fallacies.
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT [#permalink] New post 27 Feb 2014, 19:08
I know I'm talking to myself in this thread but I figure I might as well be thorough for archive purposes (some former LSAT whiz might search this forum one day).

My test is two days away and I just took another CAT.

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46)
GMATPrep 1: 720 (V41 Q48)
GMATPrep 2: 770 (V46 Q50) IR8
MGMAT CAT4: 720 (V45 Q44)
GMATPrep 3: 760 (V44 Q49) IR8

This third official exam is from Exam Pack 1, which I purchased from the official website.

It's interesting that I've kind of maxed out on Verbal. My last two GMATPrep exams I scored V46 (4 wrong) and V44 (5 wrong). For reference, on the LSAT there are generally 50 critical reasoning questions, of which I would miss between 4-5 total.

Just looking at my test scores I think the difference between MGMAT Quant and GMAT Quant is fairly obvious. I've taken the last 5 exams in a 7 day stretch.

Plan for Tomorrow: Last Study Day

I took off work, so my tentative game plan is:
(1 hour) review today's exam
(1 hour) complete practice problems from GMATPrep software (I bought Question Pack 1)
(BREAK) Go to the driving range and hit a bunch of golf balls. Physical activity helps me clear my head of all the x's and y's.
(3 hours) take GMATPrep4 (no AWA).
(BREAK) do anything but GMAT
(1 hour) review GMATPrep 4, read through my notes if i'm inclined. no more practice problems.

.......Hopefully I do well on my last GMATPrep and can go into the test with some momentum! Once again my only goal is to break 700, so things look good so far!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT-Exam TOMORROW! (3/1) [#permalink] New post 28 Feb 2014, 14:33
Last practice exam ever (hopefully!)

MGMAT CAT1: 640 (V45 Q34)
MGMAT CAT2: 660 (V45 Q36)
MGMAT CAT3: 740 (V45 Q46)
GMATPrep 1: 720 (V41 Q48)
GMATPrep 2: 770 (V46 Q50) IR8
MGMAT CAT4: 720 (V45 Q44)
GMATPrep 3: 760 (V44 Q49) IR8
GMATPrep 4: 760 (V47 Q48) IR6

Very skeptical that Quant will be this easy on the real thing. Many of the last 15 questions seemed too easy. Felt really great during Verbal. Was disappointed to see one repeat between GMATPrep3 and GMATPrep 4. It was a question that I knew I got right, so I just waited two minutes to select and moved on.

Gameplan for TOMORROW: Test Day (11:30am)

8AM: Wake up, eat breakfast etc. (1 hour)
9AM: Review Quant from GMATPrep 1-4. Really just flip through them, affirm mentally that I get each problem. (1 hour)
10AM: Complete 10ish quant questions from GMATPrep software.
10:30AM: Head to test center

Hope to post a victorious debrief tomorrow!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT-Exam TOMORROW! (3/1) [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2014, 12:45
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GMAT Conquered!

770 (Q49 V47) IR7

Debrief coming sometime tomorrow. Pumped!
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT-Exam TOMORROW! (3/1) [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2014, 13:03
Expert's post
mickeyd wrote:
GMAT Conquered!

770 (Q49 V47) IR7

Debrief coming sometime tomorrow. Pumped!


CONGRATULATIONS!! :-)
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT-Exam TOMORROW! (3/1) [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2014, 13:06
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Re: High LSAT scorer transitioning to GMAT-Exam TOMORROW! (3/1)   [#permalink] 03 Mar 2014, 13:06
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