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Director
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Re: percent, number, fraction, some ... [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2005, 05:49
HongHu wrote:
percent, number, fraction, some ...

nocilis wrote:
X of Y
X: %, percent, number, fraction etc.
Y: subject

is a case where the combined subject is singular or plural, based on whether Y is singular or plural.

So,

A high percentage of the population _____is____ voting for the new school.

A high percentage of the people ____were_____ voting for the new school.

are the correct answers as population is a singular and people is a plural subject.

Some more examples:
10% of the students are not in the class (plural)
One third of the cake has been eaten (singular)

One more note:
The following words can result in either a singular or plural subject based on the subject it acts on

1) Some of :
Example:
Some of the cookies are missing - OK
Some of the cake is missing - OK

2)Any of

3)Most of

4)All of



Why is people a "plural" subject? I thought it was a collective noun? Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?

I've read the following but still cant seem to make sense of their examples:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/plur ... tive_nouns



regards,
gmataquaguy
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Re: percent, number, fraction, some ... [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2005, 19:38
gmataquaguy wrote:
HongHu wrote:
percent, number, fraction, some ...

nocilis wrote:
X of Y
X: %, percent, number, fraction etc.
Y: subject

is a case where the combined subject is singular or plural, based on whether Y is singular or plural.

So,

A high percentage of the population _____is____ voting for the new school.

A high percentage of the people ____were_____ voting for the new school.

are the correct answers as population is a singular and people is a plural subject.

Some more examples:
10% of the students are not in the class (plural)
One third of the cake has been eaten (singular)

One more note:
The following words can result in either a singular or plural subject based on the subject it acts on

1) Some of :
Example:
Some of the cookies are missing - OK
Some of the cake is missing - OK

2)Any of

3)Most of

4)All of



Why is people a "plural" subject? I thought it was a collective noun? Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?

I've read the following but still cant seem to make sense of their examples:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/plur ... tive_nouns



regards,
gmataquaguy


Why is people a "plural" subject?
The singular form of people is person. People is plural.
As to why it's this way , I don't really know. Your question is as good as asking why the plural form of 'car' is 'cars'. That's just the way the Grammar is ! :-D

Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?
Population refers to a group of people located in a region and so it is singular, not plural.

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?
A collective noun always take a singular verb form.
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 [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2005, 19:41
You should note that a plural noun does not always means it takes a plural verb from.

Example:

Every dogs has paws.
Precede the subject with each/every, and it'll always take a singular verb.
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Re: percent, number, fraction, some ... [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2005, 22:03
ywilfred wrote:
gmataquaguy wrote:
HongHu wrote:
percent, number, fraction, some ...

nocilis wrote:
X of Y
X: %, percent, number, fraction etc.
Y: subject

is a case where the combined subject is singular or plural, based on whether Y is singular or plural.

So,

A high percentage of the population _____is____ voting for the new school.

A high percentage of the people ____were_____ voting for the new school.

are the correct answers as population is a singular and people is a plural subject.

Some more examples:
10% of the students are not in the class (plural)
One third of the cake has been eaten (singular)

One more note:
The following words can result in either a singular or plural subject based on the subject it acts on

1) Some of :
Example:
Some of the cookies are missing - OK
Some of the cake is missing - OK

2)Any of

3)Most of

4)All of



Why is people a "plural" subject? I thought it was a collective noun? Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?

I've read the following but still cant seem to make sense of their examples:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/plur ... tive_nouns



regards,
gmataquaguy


Why is people a "plural" subject?
The singular form of people is person. People is plural.
As to why it's this way , I don't really know. Your question is as good as asking why the plural form of 'car' is 'cars'. That's just the way the Grammar is ! :-D

Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?
Population refers to a group of people located in a region and so it is singular, not plural.

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?
A collective noun always take a singular verb form.


A collective noun takes a plural verb when the statement is meant to refer to the individual entities within the collective noun

For Eg: The jury were stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown.

In the above sentence, Jury is meant to refer to individual members within the jury.
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 [#permalink] New post 05 Apr 2005, 22:29
I think this applies to quantitative words: majority/minority and plurality.

When we refer to the totality, we use a plural verb.

Example:
A majority of the students are diligent.

However, when we refer to the totality as a whole, we use a singular verb.

Example:
The student majority is opposed to the new grading system.
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 [#permalink] New post 06 Apr 2005, 17:58
ywilfred wrote:
You should note that a plural noun does not always means it takes a plural verb from.

Example:

Every dogs has paws.
Precede the subject with each/every, and it'll always take a singular verb.


I think I've had an "AHA" moment. Could someone confirm whether the following makes sense/is accurate:

When you refer to EACH ELEMENT within a collective noun INDIVIDUALLY the COLLECTIVE NOUN would take the PLURAL FORM. Therefore if we ever wanted to refer to human being while using a collective noun we'd use "people", which is PLURAL.

If you want to refer to the ENTIRE COLLECTION within a collective noun it would take the SINGULAR FORM. Therefore if we ever wanted to refer to ALL ELEMENTS collectively in a collective noun we'd use population, which is SINGULAR.
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 [#permalink] New post 06 Apr 2005, 18:29
Paul wrote:
A commonly tested GMAT concept is that of "each of/one of + plural noun". The verb that immediately follows will agree with the subject "each of/one of" if there is no relative pronoun following.

Example 1:
Each of the books reminds me of her

In red is the independent clause and in blue is the prepositional phrase. "reminds" in this case is part of the independent clause and should be conjugated with the subject of the independent clause "each". In blue is just extraneous information splitting the independent clause. Do not get bothered by it. "reminds" should still be singularly conjugated.

Example 2:
Each of the books that rest on the table reminds me of her

In the above sentence, the independent clause and prepositional phrase have the same explanation as in the first example. However, there is an intruder, another obstacle splitting the independent clause; the relative/restrictive clause in green. A relative clause usually refers to the closest noun and in this case, it is "books" from the prepositional phrase. Hence, it is why "rest", the immediately following verb, will be conjugated with "books" rather than "each".


Paul could you explain why the following doesnt "add up".....


A high percentage of the population is voting for the new school.

To me the independant clause is in blue and the red is the prepositional phrase. Pls confirm whether this is accurate?

A high percentage of the people were voting for the new school.

Again to me the indepdent clause is in blue and the red is the prepositional phrase. Now the question is why is "were" a PLURAL VERB used to refer to the SINGULAR NOUN percentage.

What am i missing here......

More of the same queries:

Princeton Review [Verbal Workout for the GMAT] Page 198 says the following pronouns are singular:

another, any, anything, each, either, every, everybody, neither, no one, nobody, none.

PR is saying if you can add the word "ONE" after any of the aforementioned pronoun, its a singular pronoun that takes a singular verb tense.

But in the thread a post says the following:

Use Some, Any, Most, All depending on the SUBJECT that follows its.

For e.g.:

Some of the cookies are missing. Cookies = plural and therefore use are.

But according to PR, if you can place a one after a pronoun,

Some[one] of the cookies are missing, is WRONG as per PR


10% of the students are not in the class

To me, "of the students" is a prepositional phrase. So why are we using "are"?

Is the X of Y, rule flawed or am i missing something here?
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 [#permalink] New post 10 Apr 2005, 16:34
The difference b/w the concept which I have shown you in my previous post and the one you are asking me now is somewhat different.
1- I wanted to show you what happens in cases where there is an intruder ("that" introducing a restrictive clause) splitting the independent clause
2- My example pertained to "each of/one of" but you clearly have a point that not all "X of Y" will work the same way.

As you can see, the difference b/w my 2 examples with the books have a crucial difference; the second example has a restrictive clause "that rest on the table" which splits the independent clause and it is also the reason why the verb right after "that" belongs to the restrictive clause and will be conjugated with "books".

Getting back to your question, you raised a perfectly valid objection. "a high percentage of X" will be part of the exceptions in english language whereby the following verb, belonging to the same independant clause, will be conjugated singular or plural depending on the object of the preposition. Hence, "a high percentage of the population is" and "a high percentage of people are". Another such example would be with "most of"
eg Most of the class is not present
eg Most of the people are gone
As you can see, "most" in this case does not determine the number of the verb but the object of the preposition is (class or people)
Other such examples, but not limited to these, would include:
Some of
All of
The majority of

I will try to update these exceptions as they come to mind or through other people who can notify me.
Quote:
PR is saying if you can add the word "ONE" after any of the aforementioned pronoun, its a singular pronoun that takes a singular verb tense.

I agree with the above that word "one of" will always require a singular verb after but remember what I said previously: In sometimes long and convoluted sentences, you might overlook the presence of an intruder which might split the independent clause and throw you off. Just make sure that you can track the verb of the independent clause and conjugated it in the singular number. However, I clearly disagree with you replacing adjective "some/any/all/most/percentage " by "one" and conjugate the verb in consequence. Remember what I explained to you above about those exceptions and remember that the list which PR provided you with (another, any, each, either, every, neither, none) require a singular verb when preceding a prepositional phrase.
Quote:
10% of the students are not in the class

To me, "of the students" is a prepositional phrase. So why are we using "are"?

Is the X of Y, rule flawed or am i missing something here?

Same rule applies here because "percentage" falls within the exception group.
eg 10% of the students are not in the class
but
eg 10% of the pie is gone
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Paul


Last edited by Paul on 06 Nov 2005, 04:14, edited 1 time in total.
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 [#permalink] New post 13 Apr 2005, 12:49
Thank you for this wonderful explanation - this is a goldmine. You've clarified my conceptual understanding. :-) Thanks again.

If you come across any more subjects whose tense is determined by the object of the prepositional phrase please update this post. That is what catalyzed/gave birth to my confusion. Thanks!!! You're the man!!
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Re: Subjunctive Mood [#permalink] New post 29 Apr 2005, 12:00
Vithal wrote:
After the verb wish to indicate a situation which is unreal as in

He wishes the book belonged to you

If -- to express unreality in the present

If I were you I would read OG throughly

(it is time) + subject to imply it is late

It is time we started our preparation

would rather + subject -- to indicate preference

I would rather you sold the material

They would rather you paid them by cash



You pointed out the correct usage of 'wish' in your example-
He wished the book belonged to you

What happens to the structure "wish that..." ?
May I say this: He wishes that the book belong to you ?
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Unscientific observation [#permalink] New post 20 May 2005, 10:19
I cannnot furnish conclusive proof, but from all the hundreds of practice questions I've tried, I've discovered that the most-hated word by GMAT test-makers in English language must be:

BEING

I've never seen any correct answer choice containing this word.

Food for thoughts, huh ? :)
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 [#permalink] New post 12 Jun 2005, 05:56
In GMAT world, "which" must have a clear reference and cann't be used to refer a concept that was described in the previous sentence. For example:

He blindly trusted the person, which made everybody else angry.

This sounds alright in normal speek, but "which" is meant to refer to the fact that he trusted the person, while grammartically "which" refers to "the person". GMAT will consider this sentence to be problematic.
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 [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2005, 22:00
X of Y
X: %, percent, number, fraction etc.
Y: subject

is a case where the combined subject is singular or plural, based on whether Y is singular or plural.

So,

A high percentage of the population _____is____ voting for the new school.

A high percentage of the people ____were_____ voting for the new school.

are the correct answers as population is a singular and people is a plural subject.

Some more examples:
10% of the students are not in the class (plural)
One third of the cake has been eaten (singular)

One more note:
The following words can result in either a singular or plural subject based on the subject it acts on

1) Some of :
Example:
Some of the cookies are missing - OK
Some of the cake is missing - OK

2)Any of

3)Most of

4)All of

I disagree "people " is plural...
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Thanks for the notes. [#permalink] New post 08 Aug 2005, 01:17
ywilfred wrote:
Here are the notes I took while preparing for sc. :-D

Dear ywilfred, Thanks for your notes. Your suggestions in this forum are extremely helpful. I have recently started my preparation for GMAT. I found my verbal ability is overall very weak. Any suggestions to improve the same are welcome.

Regards...
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 [#permalink] New post 09 Aug 2005, 10:41
WinWinMBA - I'm taking the Manhattan GMAT course and my instructor told me that "being" is almost always wrong - even more so for "just like".

This is one I always got wrong (before my GMAT studying days)...

AS LONG AS vs. SO LONG AS:
As long as deals with a physical comparison, e.g., The baseball bat was as long as the golf club.
So long as deals with a condition, e.g., So long as you maintain your cool, the meeting should be fine.
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Re: percent, number, fraction, some ... [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2005, 15:27
Vithal wrote:
A collective noun takes a plural verb when the statement is meant to refer to the individual entities within the collective noun

For Eg: The jury were stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown.

In the above sentence, Jury is meant to refer to individual members within the jury.


I dont understand- I thought jury would be singular since its collective and the statement is refering to the collective group.

E.G: The jury was stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown.
Members of the jury were stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown

can someone confirm why my understanding is wrong(if it is)?
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 [#permalink] New post 27 Aug 2005, 16:57
I was always under the impression that collective nouns are nouns that look singular (usually not ending with an "s") but refer to a group of people.

Some examples include: administration, army, audience, class, crowd, faculty, orchestra, team

According to Manhattan GMAT, collective nouns are always considered singular and therefore require singular verb forms. For example:

The crowd IS cheering as the home team TAKES the field.
Our army IS attacking the enemy.

Each collective noun (above) takes a singular verb form.
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 [#permalink] New post 06 Sep 2005, 19:56
I wana give u some good tips for sc

1. usage of one another and each other(RECIPROCAL PRONOUNS_

while one another is used when there are more than two people

e.g The three brothers love One other.


and each other is used when there are two persons involved.

e.g Ashok and Harish love each other
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 [#permalink] New post 28 Sep 2005, 01:01
Collective nouns, such as family, majority, audience, and committee are singular when they act in a collective fashion or represent one group. They are plural when they act as individuals.
Collective nouns will usually be singular in Sentence Correction sentences.

A majority of the shareholders wants the merger. ( As wilfred mentions that when they are in complete totality, then "majority" would be singular else it would be plural)

The majority of students were staying in the hostel. Here "students" are acting on their own will and hence they are indiviual hence majority would be plural.

This is my understanding, let me know if i am wrong?
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Re: percent, number, fraction, some ... [#permalink] New post 09 Jul 2006, 06:55
Vithal wrote:
ywilfred wrote:
gmataquaguy wrote:
HongHu wrote:
percent, number, fraction, some ...

nocilis wrote:
X of Y
X: %, percent, number, fraction etc.
Y: subject

is a case where the combined subject is singular or plural, based on whether Y is singular or plural.

So,

A high percentage of the population _____is____ voting for the new school.

A high percentage of the people ____were_____ voting for the new school.

are the correct answers as population is a singular and people is a plural subject.

Some more examples:
10% of the students are not in the class (plural)
One third of the cake has been eaten (singular)

One more note:
The following words can result in either a singular or plural subject based on the subject it acts on

1) Some of :
Example:
Some of the cookies are missing - OK
Some of the cake is missing - OK

2)Any of

3)Most of

4)All of



Why is people a "plural" subject? I thought it was a collective noun? Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?

I've read the following but still cant seem to make sense of their examples:

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/plur ... tive_nouns



regards,
gmataquaguy


Why is people a "plural" subject?
The singular form of people is person. People is plural.
As to why it's this way , I don't really know. Your question is as good as asking why the plural form of 'car' is 'cars'. That's just the way the Grammar is ! :-D

Could anyone please elaborate on why population is plural?
Population refers to a group of people located in a region and so it is singular, not plural.

Also could someone elaborate on when a collective noun takes a plural form?
A collective noun always take a singular verb form.


A collective noun takes a plural verb when the statement is meant to refer to the individual entities within the collective noun

For Eg: The jury were stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown.

In the above sentence, Jury is meant to refer to individual members within the jury.


I really really doubt the correctness of this sentence. I dont think grammar allows you to infer the reference of the collective nount. it is always black and white. And, in this case
The jury was stationed in the hotels around Chicago downtown.
Try pasting your sentence in MS Word..
Re: percent, number, fraction, some ...   [#permalink] 09 Jul 2006, 06:55
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