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I don't know what I want to do.....

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 [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2007, 17:29
Take it and you can see if fixed income securities is something you want to get involved in. PIMCO is really the undisputed king of bond funds.
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2007, 18:00
A UCLA Anderson guy started PIMCO.

cbreeze wrote:
Take it and you can see if fixed income securities is something you want to get involved in. PIMCO is really the undisputed king of bond funds.
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2007, 18:12
rhyme wrote:
So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?


NO NO NO NO! I don't know PIMCO, but why choose jobs b/4 B-school? I'm sure going through the process and talking to others abour recruiting 24x7 will help you really understand what you want to do. And you would not want to be locked, then (neither would you want to jeopardize the opportunity of a job you might like, either).
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2007, 18:13
lepium wrote:
rhyme wrote:
So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?


NO NO NO NO! I don't know PIMCO, but why choose jobs b/4 B-school? I'm sure going through the process and talking to others abour recruiting 24x7 will help you really understand what you want to do. And you would not want to be locked, then (neither would you want to jeopardize the opportunity of a job you might like, either).


I'm not suggesting locking it in now, im just saying, if I can lock it in and put it in my back pocket - that is "Hey, it me, yea, i need that internship" - its worth doing.
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 [#permalink] New post 02 Mar 2007, 18:23
rhyme wrote:
lepium wrote:
rhyme wrote:
So if I have a way to pretty much lock in an internship at PIMCO, it wouldnt be a bad idea?


NO NO NO NO! I don't know PIMCO, but why choose jobs b/4 B-school? I'm sure going through the process and talking to others abour recruiting 24x7 will help you really understand what you want to do. And you would not want to be locked, then (neither would you want to jeopardize the opportunity of a job you might like, either).


I'm not suggesting locking it in now, im just saying, if I can lock it in and put it in my back pocket - that is "Hey, it me, yea, i need that internship" - its worth doing.


Then go ahead. If there's no cost for you I would even lock a job at McDonald's.
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 [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2007, 11:02
While I don't yet know what I want to do (I have no interest in and am too old for IB), I know what I don't want to do. And that is more of the same thing I'm doing now :D

I will be looking at industry. Making 300K isn't the top of my priority.
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 [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2007, 16:28
Bulishona, that was a GREAT description.

I think that many of these jobs are unfamiliar to those of us who aren't already in a given industry, and particularly to those of us who don't interact with MBAs much already.

Can anyone else do a "what I do all day" show and tell?

I would love to hear from anyone.
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 [#permalink] New post 03 Mar 2007, 19:56
I had a question about the travel. I have a friend who's been with Accenture for 8 years (Anderson consulting originally), ever since college. His work and travel schedule is about what you described. His work is finance consulting, but I wouldn't call it strategy; they seem to handle a lot of outsourcing work. Anyhow, I heard that some of the top firms have much more reasonable travel schedules.

For example here's what Bain says on their website:

"Consultants can expect to travel. However, Bain's business model is more conducive to one to three days a week instead of four or five days. We can work from our home offices and visit the client only when necessary. In addition, we are staffed on our local office partners' cases. As a result, our travel is typically regional, which means shorter trips."

http://www.bain.com/bainweb/join_bain/w ... alance.asp

Do you think that is accurate, or is that just a load of crap. One to three days on the road per week seem very reasonable. 5 days on the road would suck. Do you think this is believable? I remember reading on the Morgan Stanley website that they had flex-time and work from home arrangements, but I think that's all crap. They might have it for secretaries or something, but not the bankers.
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 [#permalink] New post 04 Mar 2007, 08:20
With consulting, isn't there ever stuff to do at the home office? Reporting on projects, meeting with other home staff, etc?

In my current job, when i do consulting it's a fun perk -- a reward for being good enough to get farmed out. (For a nonprofit, we manage our brand VERY carefully. If the big guys with the deep pockets don't think we're absolutely stellar, it's bad for PR, bad for funding, and therefore bad for the bottom line. I am one of the few on staff who get to do this. Mostly it's the CEO.) It's a shift from the usual work and fun to have the people I'm helping think I'm a genius.

But I imagine how quickly that effect would wear off if it's what I did every day every day every day.
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 [#permalink] New post 04 Mar 2007, 11:47
Here's an article from Barron's about the (current) golden goose of investment management - hedge funds. They keep talking about a specific investment style, so those heading to Chicago (Friedman economics), Columbia (Value) and Wharton (high yield I guess) study hard.

"The B-School Brigade's A-List

By SUZANNE MCGEE


DUGGAN JENSEN, A 27-YEAR-OLD Harvard Business School student, has no question about what field he'll pursue after graduating this spring: hedge funds. He is drawn by the excitement, the potential for huge financial rewards and the absence of big bureaucracies with long career ladders. "Nobody getting their Harvard MBA wants to have to struggle with not having enough responsibility out of the gate," says Jensen.

His classmates seem to agree. When one modest-sized hedge fund, Durban Capital, recently offered to speak with Harvard B-schoolers about job opportunities, it drew an overflow crowd to a lecture hall designed for 90. "I was utterly stunned," says David Berman, the fund's founder. Berman, who had expected to chat informally with a handful of students, found himself giving an ad-hoc presentation for an hour. And, he says, "not one person left the room."

Yes, hedge funds are getting plenty of attention from the class of 2007 -- not just at Harvard but at other top business schools, too. At the same time, the funds, which long have hired mainly from Wall Street trading desks, are showing an increased appetite for newly minted MBAs. The industry's still-rapid growth -- assets rose 15% last year, to $1.4 trillion, says a leading industry researcher, Hennessee Group -- demands constant hiring. And some sharp, young minds from B-schools, the funds hope, could be just the ticket for devising the next generation of quantitative models and finding the right path to the hallowed ground of alpha.



There are some catches, however. If hedge funds fail to identify the most creative students, they may only exacerbate what is arguably the industry's biggest problem: similarly trained people pursuing similar strategies at exactly the same time. Likewise, students at the top schools aren't looking to join just any hedge fund. Jensen, for instance, has his sights set firmly on his home state of California, not the hedge-fund meccas of New York and London. Others want a hedge fund with a particular track record or a certain strategy, like investing in distressed companies.

As a result, both the industry and the students are proceeding with a measure of caution, like disciplined traders waiting for perfect opportunities. But the two sides' interest in each other is unmistakable and rising. At Columbia Business School, for instance, some 11% of 2006 graduates went into investment management, nearly double the share from 2004; assistant dean Regina Resnick traces much of the jump to hedge funds.

Hedge funds, for their part, are starting to recruit at the schools, just as Goldman Sachs, McKinsey and Proctor & Gamble long have done. "There are far more jobs being posted and firms coming to campus this year than there were even last year," says Jensen. Almost every day, he adds, he and his fellow members of an investment club at Harvard receive at least one e-mail from a hedge fund seeking resumes.

The industry has little choice but to turn to the business schools. Fund managers used to reach out to their friends and contacts, spreading the word that they were looking to hire an extra person, and, without ever having to post an ad, the position could be filled. But that's getting much harder to do.

"There was a time, not all that long ago, when a proprietary trader at a bank might not have been paid so well and you could say, 'let's get him on board,'" recalls Matthew Rhodes-Kropf, an associate professor of business at Columbia Business School. "Nowadays, not only is the bank paying that guy more, but if he's good, he may decide to start a hedge fund himself, or he's got a dozen other hedge funds all bidding for him as well."

The funds have been experimenting with different ways to find the right B-schoolers. Sometimes, no specific job is mentioned, a break from the practices of the traditional companies recruiting on campus. A hedge fund may have only one or two positions available at any time, and says an executive at one large New York-based fund, "we'd rather keep that position open for months and months than hire the wrong person."

While some big funds assure potential recruits that no experience is required and that job training will be provided, for the most part, hedge funds are looking for students with some financial expertise and knowledge of a particular industry or investing style. To identify those, they are making greater use of schools' formal recruiting channels.

"Certainly, we find more and more hedge funds are connecting with us, rather than just reaching out to individual students who they'd identify through their network," says Sara Simons, senior associate director of MBA Career Management at the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. "They are just starting to think about how they will evaluate a broader range of potential candidates for these jobs."


MBA candidate Duggan Jensen of Harvard has his sights on a fund job in California.

Simons believes that this shift in ecruiting strategy will prove healthy for the hedge-fund industry over the long haul, resulting in an influx of new kinds of recruits able to ferret out new kinds of investment strategies and increase the funds' returns. But in the shorter term -- despite the excitement among students, and despite the need of hedge-fund managers to expand their teams -- the process is bumpy and puts new demands on all the participants, including the business schools themselves.

At Harvard, for instance, Tim Butler, the director of career-development programs, last year recruited a new "career coach" from the ranks of alumni, so that students eager to join the hedge-fund industry can benefit from first-hand knowledge of how it works. The coach is Newton, Mass.-based Joan Ronayne, who oversees her own pool of capital, managed according to a long/short equity strategy. She says the most common question she fields might at first blush seem very basic: What is a hedge fund? "It's an evolving definition," Ronayne says, "and there is so much variety, that the first thing people are interested in is getting their arms around the concept a little better."

Meanwhile, Jana Kierstead, Harvard's director of MBA career services, is ramping up the office's range of contacts with the hedge-fund industry. "The contacts we get from people tend to be slightly ambiguous, along the lines of, 'We're thinking of hiring someone.'" Complicating her life -- not to mention the students' job searches -- many hedge funds are reluctant to formalize the recruiting process too much. "They want to see an effort on the part of the students; they want the student to take the initiative and seek them out."

So, on a frosty Monday morning early this month, the first day of a big recruiting week for first-year MBA students, relatively few hedge-fund managers showed up to sign in at tables at Spangler Hall and interview the swarms of impeccably dressed and eager-eyed students who thronged the halls with resumés in leather portfolios tucked under their arms. It's a ritual called Hell Week, and so far, it seems, hedge funds are largely sitting it out.

"Most of the hedge funds seem to have jobs -- far more than I saw a year ago -- but it's ad hoc recruiting," says Alvis Matlija, who is taking refuge from the furor in Spangler's downstairs cafeteria, the Grille. Matlija spent the first half of last summer working for a private-equity fund, and the second half at a hedge fund, working on an event-driven investment team. (The hedge-fund job didn't become available until mid-June, he notes.)

When Matlija, an Albanian, arrived at Harvard Business School 18 months ago, the nuances of hedge funds, private equity funds and other kinds of investment vehicles were still blurry to him. "After high school, I worked in the non-profit sector in Kosovo and in my country," before attending college in Greece, Matlija explains. But he finds the financial world fascinating, and now has his sights firmly on hedge funds. "I want to work within a smaller, more interesting organization," he says. "But the process is very unstructured; your net has to be really wide to catch the right kind of fish."

Not that it's any consolation to Matlija, but the hiring process is no easier for higher-level positions at hedge funds. The recruiters increasingly brought in to help with these searches can find it tricky to meet many funds' highly specific needs

"They may want someone with knowledge of a particular specialized strategy, who can lead the fund's move into that investment area," says Cathryn Palmieri, managing director at recruiting giant Korn/Ferry. "They all want new blood -- people capable of taking up the quest for alpha so they can stay on top of the heap -- but they have very, very specific ideas of what that new blood looks like."

With 9,800 funds operating and an average of three launched each working day, according to Hennessee's data, more is on the line with each new recruit.

"The guys who will be successful as the business becomes more institutionalized are those who will figure out the right way to build a diverse team of younger people who can move into more new asset classes and continue to generate profits," says Charles Gradante, co-founder and managing principal of Hennessee.

Any number of traits in a candidate could catch a particular fund's fancy. "If you weren't necessarily the best quantitative model-builder on the planet, but every so often you came up with a new way of looking at a market or a company that caused the portfolio manager to say 'wow, I hadn't thought of that,' then you're adding alpha, and that's going to be invaluable," says Columbia's Rhodes-Kropf. "The smartest people in this industry know that they need to hire more creatively."

The need is underscored by the experience of Berman's Durban Capital, a noted player in the stocks of retail companies. A decade ago, for instance, Berman hired a weather consultant to advise him on weather-related consumer trends. "The guy told me a big snowstorm was going to hit the Northeast, and it became a license to print money for me," he says. But now, with more smart people in the hedge-fund world looking for an edge, playing weather trends no longer works. Berman figures that few factors that might affect consumer demand are being overlooked making it that much harder for any individual fund to score a big coup.

Berman, who can point to 12 years of consistent profits, has still seen average gross returns shrink from nearly 40% to half that level or less. "Part of that," he says, "is certainly due to the fact you simply have more and more and more people, all being pulled into this business by the money that they believe is available."

Berman right now is thinking long and hard about how to fill one particular position: summer intern. That title may sound humdrum; however, Berman's requirements are anything but. "I'm looking for someone who is passionate about more than just making money, and who really knows what a hedge fund is about," he says. "I want someone who is dedicated to being a great investor."

Class, start taking notes."
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 [#permalink] New post 04 Mar 2007, 12:05
This departs slightly from the current direction of the dicsussion - but what did everyone who applied for 07 matric write for short term career essays? Very interesting that most seem not to know!
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 [#permalink] New post 05 Mar 2007, 13:30
necromonger wrote:
While I don't yet know what I want to do (I have no interest in and am too old for IB), I know what I don't want to do. And that is more of the same thing I'm doing now :D

I will be looking at industry. Making 300K isn't the top of my priority.


Too old for IB? And what might that age be my friend?
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 [#permalink] New post 09 Mar 2007, 19:57
Freakin' awesome post, guys...this is the stuff you love to read as an MBA student. I hear so many work categories and functions and titles, but don't hear often enough about what exactly they entail. So these first-hand (or 2nd hand) accounts are great.

My goal has and always will be to own (not start, but eventually buy and manage) a company in the heavy construction industry.

To get there, I will probably focus on a general management position in that industry or similar.

However, as someone mentioned, GM jobs don't often go right away to fresh MBAs. I would imagine you would have to be expert in one particular area before moving to GM ??

For that reason, I'm really trying to nail down what that first post-MBA position will be, since it will set me up for the GM job and consequently set me up to own/buy the construction biz.
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 [#permalink] New post 10 Mar 2007, 21:16
jatt -- 33. I'm guessing I'm too old for IB. Think not?

jatt wrote:
necromonger wrote:
While I don't yet know what I want to do (I have no interest in and am too old for IB), I know what I don't want to do. And that is more of the same thing I'm doing now :D

I will be looking at industry. Making 300K isn't the top of my priority.


Too old for IB? And what might that age be my friend?
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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 07:01
pelihu wrote:
The expectations are different on the West Coast, and I wouldn't be surprised if many of the bankers in LA and SF work 15-20 hours week less than their NY counterparts. There is much more of a culture of getting your work done, and getting out while the sun is still shining.



Potentially 3-4 hours less per day? If this is true, I may reconsider IB on the West Coast.
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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 11:10
Whats the pay/hr with 100 hr weeks? Is it worth it?

I am married and have a young child, so I won't be looking for something as hectic.

gmatclb wrote:
fluffydot wrote:
so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR


80 hour weeks? Yeah, when you become senior. Associates are more like 100 hour weeks (not too different from analysts).

There's a switch in necessary skills in banking. The skills that get you the job and help you succeed are not the same skills you need as a manager. As a grunt, you need attention to detial/analytical skills/ etc. but as you become more senior, it's all about selling.

So, do you want to be a glorified salesman?
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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 12:31
Java,

I could be wrong, but the amount of hours you work per week make little or no difference to how much you make as a consultant. Consulting firms pay a salary to you, not hourly wages, and few pay overtime.

However, you could work well over 40 billable hours per week, allowing your firm to charge the client for much more than 40 hours per week, while still paying you your standard salary. They are very interested in getting as much as they can out of you while you're on site.

I believe the rates for beginning Analysts at a company like Accenture, for example, are around $125 per hour - obviously much more than the Analysts themselves make (~$55k to start). For consultants with MBAs - the rate may be closer to $200 per hour and the salary closer to $100k.


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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 12:49
So what job pulls in the most money after IB/MC (not counting the impossible PE/IM/HF etc)?

I assume outside of the jobs listed above, the hours are more sane (60s range)
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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 13:00
Thanks Artis... looks like it is just like my life as a Java Consultant!
I graduate in 2009, I guess I will figure it out by then..

artshep wrote:
Java,

I could be wrong, but the amount of hours you work per week make little or no difference to how much you make as a consultant. Consulting firms pay a salary to you, not hourly wages, and few pay overtime.

However, you could work well over 40 billable hours per week, allowing your firm to charge the client for much more than 40 hours per week, while still paying you your standard salary. They are very interested in getting as much as they can out of you while you're on site.

I believe the rates for beginning Analysts at a company like Accenture, for example, are around $125 per hour - obviously much more than the Analysts themselves make (~$55k to start). For consultants with MBAs - the rate may be closer to $200 per hour and the salary closer to $100k.


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 [#permalink] New post 12 Mar 2007, 13:06
necromonger wrote:
jatt -- 33. I'm guessing I'm too old for IB. Think not?

jatt wrote:
necromonger wrote:
While I don't yet know what I want to do (I have no interest in and am too old for IB), I know what I don't want to do. And that is more of the same thing I'm doing now :D

I will be looking at industry. Making 300K isn't the top of my priority.


Too old for IB? And what might that age be my friend?


I hear you buddy. I am a year or so younger than you are and am thinking myself that I am too old for IB. Congrats on your admit to INSEAD. I am contemplating to apply there for the Jan 08 intake. What potential industries will you be targetting post-MBA, if I may ask?
  [#permalink] 12 Mar 2007, 13:06
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