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I don't know what I want to do.....

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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 12:03
I thought IB was more about photocopying and proof reading pitch books late in the night than any intelligent quantitative analysis. The analysis part is all bogus with a VP doling out an unrealistic and optimistic valuation number with the monkeys fitting things around that number.

fluffydot wrote:
Where's the love for IB??

Okay, I know I've writing IB in my apps all along but I really don't either. I know I need to make a lot of money and I'm good with analyzing stuff and math. I've been living in 3 yrs of chillax IT life so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 12:09
My idea is to re-join my current employer. Now wait, here's the catch: right now I have access within my employer to positions around the world. Exciting opportunities and lotsa growth potential (which an MBA will help boost). However, when calculating salaries, they calculate based on a percentage of savings (in local currency) and a percentage of living expenses. Basically some wicked HR scheme to pay less to expatriates.

I figured that if I get a US based MBA I could re-join the company as a US-based employee and then no matter where I'm transferred (ideally to some low costs developing country) I'll keep receiving a reasonable salary.

So that's that. If I get an admit I'll try and make them pay for my MBA. If not, I'll keep my options open.

Cheers. L.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:02
Tell us how you really feel...

:lol:

People tend to have a love/hate relationship with IB, and it is apparent that transcends to how it is viewed in the blogosphere. It has it's pros and cons just like every job, but it's certainly not as dire as you make it out to be.



lhotseface wrote:
I thought IB was more about photocopying and proof reading pitch books late in the night than any intelligent quantitative analysis. The analysis part is all bogus with a VP doling out an unrealistic and optimistic valuation number with the monkeys fitting things around that number.

fluffydot wrote:
Where's the love for IB??

Okay, I know I've writing IB in my apps all along but I really don't either. I know I need to make a lot of money and I'm good with analyzing stuff and math. I've been living in 3 yrs of chillax IT life so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR
VP
VP
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:17
It was a tongue-in-cheek rumination....though not far from reality based on my converations with friends at Bear Stearns, ML and Lehman.

eazyb81 wrote:
Tell us how you really feel...

:lol:

People tend to have a love/hate relationship with IB, and it is apparent that transcends to how it is viewed in the blogosphere. It has it's pros and cons just like every job, but it's certainly not as dire as you make it out to be.



lhotseface wrote:
I thought IB was more about photocopying and proof reading pitch books late in the night than any intelligent quantitative analysis. The analysis part is all bogus with a VP doling out an unrealistic and optimistic valuation number with the monkeys fitting things around that number.

fluffydot wrote:
Where's the love for IB??

Okay, I know I've writing IB in my apps all along but I really don't either. I know I need to make a lot of money and I'm good with analyzing stuff and math. I've been living in 3 yrs of chillax IT life so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR
Manager
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:21
The adcom suggested we do Career Leader ($95) http://www.careerleader.com/

I think they require it for students...
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:27
fluffydot wrote:
so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR


80 hour weeks? Yeah, when you become senior. Associates are more like 100 hour weeks (not too different from analysts).

There's a switch in necessary skills in banking. The skills that get you the job and help you succeed are not the same skills you need as a manager. As a grunt, you need attention to detial/analytical skills/ etc. but as you become more senior, it's all about selling.

So, do you want to be a glorified salesman?
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:29
I understand, and I also have friends within the industry that say some of the same things when they are having bad days. However, other days they love their work and it obviously goes without saying the money is absurd.

IMO, there are pros and cons to all jobs, and sadly stats show that most people don't really like their job. Whether you go into IB, MC, IM, Corp Finance, GM, etc., there are going to be some good things and there are going to be some bad things - no job is perfect.

lhotseface wrote:
It was a tongue-in-cheek rumination....though not far from reality based on my converations with friends at Bear Stearns, ML and Lehman.

eazyb81 wrote:
Tell us how you really feel...

:lol:

People tend to have a love/hate relationship with IB, and it is apparent that transcends to how it is viewed in the blogosphere. It has it's pros and cons just like every job, but it's certainly not as dire as you make it out to be.



lhotseface wrote:
I thought IB was more about photocopying and proof reading pitch books late in the night than any intelligent quantitative analysis. The analysis part is all bogus with a VP doling out an unrealistic and optimistic valuation number with the monkeys fitting things around that number.

fluffydot wrote:
Where's the love for IB??

Okay, I know I've writing IB in my apps all along but I really don't either. I know I need to make a lot of money and I'm good with analyzing stuff and math. I've been living in 3 yrs of chillax IT life so 80hour weeks seem like exciting to me. But I can see how that might get tough after a year or two. Is there something else I should consider instead of MC?

I'd also like to work in Hong Kong/China after grad, so some kinda banking/investing sounds good to me.

Things that are out for me:
Brand Management
NPO
Sales
HR
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:41
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IB sucks. Period.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 13:50
I think IB opens up a lof ot doors further down. Most people tend to work for 2-3 years post MBA and move on to PE shops, Hedge Funds and other Corporate Finance roles. Once you get out of the IB fraternity, there's an aura of accomplishment and honor associated to it.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:08
I read in Alex's posts on businessweek forums that PE and Hedge shops aren't quite welcoming to formers IBs. Corporate finance is the more likely route. Can someone comment ?

agsfaltex wrote:
I think IB opens up a lof ot doors further down. Most people tend to work for 2-3 years post MBA and move on to PE shops, Hedge Funds and other Corporate Finance roles. Once you get out of the IB fraternity, there's an aura of accomplishment and honor associated to it.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:24
I love reading Alex's comments, but don't take his word on IB as gospel. He has obviously been burned badly by the IB bug and has a huge chip on his shoulder about it. If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to? Everyone knows the pay is great and the hours suck, but many see it as an opportunity to pay your dues for a few years and then leapfrog into something a bit more manageable.

Also, Alex brings up race quite a bit when he espouses on IB, and I have a feeling his lingering opinions on the industry have to do with some perceived racism he felt at one of the white shoe firms.

lhotseface wrote:
I read in Alex's posts on businessweek forums that PE and Hedge shops aren't quite welcoming to formers IBs. Corporate finance is the more likely route. Can someone comment ?

agsfaltex wrote:
I think IB opens up a lof ot doors further down. Most people tend to work for 2-3 years post MBA and move on to PE shops, Hedge Funds and other Corporate Finance roles. Once you get out of the IB fraternity, there's an aura of accomplishment and honor associated to it.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:27
Sure, but I hear the same story from multiple sources which is hard to ignore. The money is great and the pressure of getting out of debt makes a lot of MBAs do things that they may not like.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:27
Not many people mentioned investment management? How come?
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:31
Well, I guess the bottom line is simply to believe what you want to believe. I know people in the industry and the consensus is that IB can be a stepping stone to PE/HF/IM. Is it easy? No, but it can be done and is done on a consistent basis. That said, there aren't any stats on the issue, so I guess you need to trust your sources.

lhotseface wrote:
Sure, but I hear the same story from multiple sources which is hard to ignore. The money is great and the pressure of getting out of debt makes a lot of MBAs do things that they may not like.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 14:33
Nsentra wrote:
Not many people mentioned investment management? How come?


Tough to break into straight out of b-school with no prior experience. I certainly have IM aspirations, but i'm not naive - I will need to put back few years in a BBB to make the transition to the buy-side.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 15:11
Nsentra wrote:
Not many people mentioned investment management? How come?


Investment management is the kinder, gentler cousin of IB, but easyb is 100% correct that it's an incredibly difficult field to break into. The pay is at least as good and can be better than IB, and the hours are shorter. You also have more control over your life. Not a shock that these jobs are in high demand.

I believe there are 3 realistic ways of getting into investment management.

1. Come in with experience at a bulge bracket bank and do well at a top 10-15 school.

2. Get an MBA from a top 10-15 school, join a top IB for 2-3 years and try to make the move after that (the way that easyb described)

3. Get a degree from an ultra-elite and do a lot of legwork and networking.

It's a rarity for people not at the ultra-elites to get into the field, unless it is based on relevant, elite level work experience. The jobs are just too much in demand.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 15:52
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eazyb81 wrote:
If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to?


Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn $$$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it.

There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB.

The best kept secret are the industries nobody wants to get into. Hedge funds have only been around for (what) 5 years. It's not even an established industry. (sounds like dotcom bubble)

My money is on the GM, Nabisco, Sony corporations. Or better yet an established mutual fund.
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 16:08
Since were all making lists of what we like and dislike

Would not do:
IB
Non profit
Brand Management (i want to manage people not things)

Specific areas of interest:
Strategic roles in small to mid sized firms
Rotational programs in corporate firms
Strategy consulting as a backup
Investment Mgmt buy side only
Private Wealth Mgmt (not sure why this is not a popular choice, the hours are reasonable, the pay is good, and its people oriented. Plus when you build a client list and you jump ship with a big client list, you can command a lot of money)
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 16:12
rhyme wrote:
Plus when you build a client list and you jump ship with a big client list, you can command a lot of money)


Just make sure you keep those plans to yourself during interviews! :lol:
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 [#permalink] New post 01 Mar 2007, 16:20
lepium wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Plus when you build a client list and you jump ship with a big client list, you can command a lot of money)


Just make sure you keep those plans to yourself during interviews! :lol:


LOL
  [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 16:20
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