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# I don't know what I want to do.....

Author Message
Senior Manager
Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 480
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0

biggamejames wrote:
eazyb81 wrote:
If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to?

Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn $$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it. And "anyone" can't do MC or Corporate Finance? Just because it isn't highly specialized doesn't mean it is not a worthy career choice. Seems like an odd way to define an entire industry. Quote: There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB. I agree - the hours are grueling, not exactly the field established vets in their 40's and 50's would want to jump into. As has been said many times in this thread, IB is more of a stepping stone to perceivably bigger and better things. Director Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 958 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 73 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 16:48 Gmatclb characterized I-banking in the senior levels as "glorified sales" and I've heard the same about management consulting, they have the "up or out" culture where you move up when you start selling more business, or else you get squeezed out. Can someone explain exactly what corporate finance is? I always think of it as meaning working in the finance department of a non-financial company like Sears or McDonalds. Is that basically it? GMAT Club Legend Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 5926 Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009 GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45 WE: Business Development (Consumer Products) Followers: 285 Kudos [?]: 1799 [0], given: 7 [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 17:05 Thats what I've always figured it was. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_finance SVP Joined: 31 Jul 2006 Posts: 2304 Schools: Darden Followers: 40 Kudos [?]: 449 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 17:22 I think it's confusing because terms are used interchangeably. Like you guys, I think of corporate finance as an in-house finance department at a corporation. However, Morgan Stanley divides their investment banking department differently than some other banks. What Citigroup and Merrill call their Investment Banking division, Morgan Stanley calls the Corporate Finance division of their Investment Banking group. VP Joined: 14 Feb 2005 Posts: 1001 Location: New York Followers: 5 Kudos [?]: 18 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 17:32 I am not sure WHAT i want to do but Very clear about WHAT NOT TO DO Would not do: IB MC Areas of interest: Gerenal Management roles, where i will be able to work and interact with people rather than sit on my ass and fiddle with PC whole day Event Management Entertainment Industry or Sports Manager Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 118 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 1 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 01 Mar 2007, 22:07 pelihu wrote: Nsentra wrote: Not many people mentioned investment management? How come? Investment management is the kinder, gentler cousin of IB, but easyb is 100% correct that it's an incredibly difficult field to break into. The pay is at least as good and can be better than IB, and the hours are shorter. You also have more control over your life. Not a shock that these jobs are in high demand. I believe there are 3 realistic ways of getting into investment management. 1. Come in with experience at a bulge bracket bank and do well at a top 10-15 school. 2. Get an MBA from a top 10-15 school, join a top IB for 2-3 years and try to make the move after that (the way that easyb described) 3. Get a degree from an ultra-elite and do a lot of legwork and networking. It's a rarity for people not at the ultra-elites to get into the field, unless it is based on relevant, elite level work experience. The jobs are just too much in demand. Good post Pelihu. I have also seen many PhD's and MS finance grads with a stellar quant/analytical background get into IM directly. And that's another reason why IM is tough, since one's competing with other people besides MBA's. I'm sure most people would love to get into IM buy side; but like most good things in life, this one is also extremely hard to do. Manager Joined: 03 Nov 2006 Posts: 161 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 3 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 00:46 The company I work at has one of the top corporate rotational programs worldwide. However, all the people I know who have at least some ambition have left the program a few months after joining because, according to them, it offered very little in terms of interesting work and challenge. What are your thoughts on asset management? and how easy is it to get into after b-school? Senior Manager Joined: 08 Feb 2006 Posts: 251 Schools: Ross, Kellogg, Darden (i/v) Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 01:20 Let me join the exodus and list my wants and dont wants. WANT - MC IB Sales & Trading PE would be a dream job, but coming from a non-IB, non-MC background, I know it is close to impossible getting to PE right after MBA. DONT WANT- Sales & Mktg NP HR Senior Manager Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 480 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 06:06 imjimmy wrote: Good post Pelihu. I have also seen many PhD's and MS finance grads with a stellar quant/analytical background get into IM directly. And that's another reason why IM is tough, since one's competing with other people besides MBA's. I'm sure most people would love to get into IM buy side; but like most good things in life, this one is also extremely hard to do. You are correct, but recently there has been an influx of JD's and MD's go into IB, so you are not in the clear in that field either. I would also like to clarify that the entire IM industry isn't always so tough to break into after b-school - it's mainly the equity research/junior PM jobs with prestigous IM firms that are tough to crack. It is very possible to get hooked up with more of a regional IM firm, but the pay will be much less than the big boys (roughly 50-70K) and it is hard to move up to the upper tier firms after you start at a middle/lower level firm. If you absolutely have your heart set on IM you can make it happen, but you might have to suck it up and give up any dreams of Fidelity or Blackrock. Director Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 665 Followers: 2 Kudos [?]: 7 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 06:14 I am only interested in$$
From the stats it looks like
1) MC
2) IB

Intern
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 43
Followers: 0

Kudos [?]: 5 [1] , given: 0

1
KUDOS
rhyme wrote:
Brand Management (i want to manage people not things)

i found this comment very interesting. i work in brand management now (with a background in advertising) and my job is all about people, very little about "things." marketing in general is so much more fluffy and people oriented relative to some of the other careers you guys are talking about here (well, maybe not as much as MC)... my job is essentially being the leader of my cross-functional team to, well, manage the brand. the downside of this, of course, is that you're in meetings ALL DAY! :p

regardless, if anyone has any questions about brand management i'd be happy to offer my experiences up...
Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 13 [0], given: 0

What percent of your day is spent in meetings?

What are the hours? Weekends?

What do you talk about in meetings?

Who do you work with?

etc.
GMAT Club Legend
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 5926
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
Followers: 285

Kudos [?]: 1799 [0], given: 7

bulishona wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Brand Management (i want to manage people not things)

i found this comment very interesting. i work in brand management now (with a background in advertising) and my job is all about people, very little about "things." marketing in general is so much more fluffy and people oriented relative to some of the other careers you guys are talking about here (well, maybe not as much as MC)... my job is essentially being the leader of my cross-functional team to, well, manage the brand. the downside of this, of course, is that you're in meetings ALL DAY! :p

regardless, if anyone has any questions about brand management i'd be happy to offer my experiences up...

I'd love to hear more. I've always figured brand management meant being the guy responsible for picking the font color but not the text or the size for the front label, but not the back label, of colgate brand listerine mouthwash, but only the 12 oz bottle, not the 24 oz bottle, and only the mint flavored option, not the other flavours, and only the US market distribution.

I'm actually a very people oriented person, so your comments are intriguing. Tell me more.
Director
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 707
Followers: 1

Kudos [?]: 13 [0], given: 0

eazyb81 wrote:
biggamejames wrote:
eazyb81 wrote:
If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to?

Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn $$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it. And "anyone" can't do MC or Corporate Finance? Just because it isn't highly specialized doesn't mean it is not a worthy career choice. Seems like an odd way to define an entire industry. Quote: There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB. I agree - the hours are grueling, not exactly the field established vets in their 40's and 50's would want to jump into. As has been said many times in this thread, IB is more of a stepping stone to perceivably bigger and better things. MC and corp finance.. you're not making 300k/year. There's no other industry out there where you can make 300k/year in your first year without any experience in that industry. Where do you think all those MBAs straight out of undergrad go? IB is probably the only industry who will take them. Director Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 707 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 13 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 06:58 hosam wrote: What are your thoughts on asset management? and how easy is it to get into after b-school? Asset management is the same as investment managemtent. Eazyb touched on a crucial component of IM. When someones says they are going to IB or MC, you know what type of role they are going to. But IM is so broad with so many roles. What department or role you get to is more important than the company. Generally, research and trading are the fields to get into. Possibly client services (institutional client services). Intern Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Followers: 0 Kudos [?]: 5 [4] , given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 06:59 4 This post received KUDOS well those are broad questions! my experience in BM is not at a traditional packaged goods company. i'm at a toy company which is decidedly different. but when i was in advertising, all of my clients were pkgd goods companies so i'm intimately familiar with what they do too. honestly, some days i spend the whole day in meetings. with my engineers to figure out how we can make a product actually work. briefing my packaging team about a new line we're doing and need a new logo for. with my ad agency looking at storyboards for the launch of a new item. it's endless. i call them "beatings." those days suck. you come back to your desk at 5, with your inbox waiting for you with 75 unread emails. but other days, like today, you don't have any meetings. i should be writing a deck right now to introduce our sales team to a new children's tv property that we're doing the toys for. and then i have to review the moderator's report from a recent set of focus groups we did and provide the team with some recommendations. and then i have to do a data analysis of competitive sales data to see what trends i can glean about a new category we're thinking of entering. hours? that's the best part. hours are awesome. for the most part, i work 8-6. i do take my laptop home to do emails (always tons of emails) but at my company we have half-day fridays so it's even better. some days i work late, but never later than 8. i almost never work weekends. and when i have to officially work (travel, attending a conference, etc.) then i get a comp day to take another day. it is certainly not expected that you work on the weekends. of course, i don't get paid to work 100 hrs a week either, so that is obviously a drawback. pay is good but not amazing. i also get paid less than other BMs because i don't have an MBA but that's a different issue what is my objective? wow that's an all-encompassing question. i build the brand. i know that sounds rather obtuse, but it's what i do. every part of the brand from product, to packaging, to communications, to managing the P&L, to working with sales to sell the product in to the trade, to making recommendations to senior management about how to increase our sku efficiency, to planning out our long-term brand strategy, and on and on. different brands have different areas of emphasis, of course. my current brands are both new launches so i don't have any POS analysis or damage control going on. it's all forward thinking. does that help at all? happy to answer any other questions! Intern Joined: 01 Mar 2007 Posts: 43 Followers: 0 Kudos [?]: 5 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 07:02 rhyme wrote: I'd love to hear more. I've always figured brand management meant being the guy responsible for picking the font color but not the text or the size for the front label, but not the back label, of colgate brand listerine mouthwash, but only the 12 oz bottle, not the 24 oz bottle, and only the mint flavored option, not the other flavours, and only the US market distribution. I'm actually a very people oriented person, so your comments are intriguing. Tell me more. too funny! yes, that's what i would imagine it would be like as an ABM in a packaged goods company. that's why you wouldn't catch me dead there. don't get me wrong, there is certainly prestige and a good foundation to be had at a P&G or whatnot, but determining the softest toilet paper isn't exactly exciting to me. it varies SO MUCH by industry, i can't even begin to emphasize that enough. while toys can be considered a consumer good, it is night and day different from pkgd goods. see my previous post... Director Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 707 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 13 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 07:03 So how is BM different from marketing? Also, if your company is public and the stock price takes a hit, your department appears to be the easiest scapegoat. That is, your people appear to be "expendable." Not saying you explicitly, but just generally trying to get a feel for this indsutry. Senior Manager Joined: 03 Jul 2006 Posts: 480 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 9 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 07:04 gmatclb wrote: eazyb81 wrote: biggamejames wrote: eazyb81 wrote: If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to? Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn$$$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it. And "anyone" can't do MC or Corporate Finance? Just because it isn't highly specialized doesn't mean it is not a worthy career choice. Seems like an odd way to define an entire industry. Quote: There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB. I agree - the hours are grueling, not exactly the field established vets in their 40's and 50's would want to jump into. As has been said many times in this thread, IB is more of a stepping stone to perceivably bigger and better things. MC and corp finance.. you're not making 300k/year. There's no other industry out there where you can make 300k/year in your first year without any experience in that industry. Where do you think all those MBAs straight out of undergrad go? IB is probably the only industry who will take them. Hmmm....i've read this a few times and still don't understand what point you are attempting to make. You originally tried to knock IB by saying "anyone can do it", and I responded by saying "anyone" can do MC or CF, as an example. Your response to this is to say MC and CF don't pay as well as IB - what does that have to do with the original discussion? Are you trying to condemn IB because it pays much better than other industries? Odd argument. Saying IB is the only industry that will take MBAs out of undergrad is kind of a silly statement. Director Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 707 Followers: 1 Kudos [?]: 13 [0], given: 0 [#permalink] 02 Mar 2007, 07:11 eazyb81 wrote: gmatclb wrote: eazyb81 wrote: biggamejames wrote: eazyb81 wrote: If the industry was so horrible, why would so many people be fighting each other for these BB jobs? Why is IB the #1 industry MBAs want to get into to? Because IB is probably the only industry where you don't need a specific skillset and still earn$. The job is a commodity. Anyone can do it.

And "anyone" can't do MC or Corporate Finance? Just because it isn't highly specialized doesn't mean it is not a worthy career choice. Seems like an odd way to define an entire industry.

Quote:
There's a reason people who've done IB never go back and the ones who go into IB out of MBA never did IB.

I agree - the hours are grueling, not exactly the field established vets in their 40's and 50's would want to jump into. As has been said many times in this thread, IB is more of a stepping stone to perceivably bigger and better things.

MC and corp finance.. you're not making 300k/year.

There's no other industry out there where you can make 300k/year in your first year without any experience in that industry.

Where do you think all those MBAs straight out of undergrad go? IB is probably the only industry who will take them.

Hmmm....i've read this a few times and still don't understand what point you are attempting to make. You originally tried to knock IB by saying "anyone can do it", and I responded by saying "anyone" can do MC or CF, as an example. Your response to this is to say MC and CF don't pay as well as IB - what does that have to do with the original discussion? Are you trying to condemn IB because it pays much better than other industries? Odd argument.

Saying IB is the only industry that will take MBAs out of undergrad is kind of a silly statement.

The original statement was, "IB is the only industry where you can make 300K+/year."

Sure MC and CF you don't need any skill. Same thing with working at Taco Bell. But you aren't making 300K/year.

I'm not condeming IB because they pay much better than other industries. I'm saying that IB is (probably) the only industry where you can make that much without specialized skill (like a doctor or physicist).... therefore it is a commodity. Do banks have trouble hiring assocaiates?

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