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If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother!

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If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 14:37
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 14:51
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Although I agree that the value of an MBA declines precipitously as you go down the rankings, a top 5 or bust mentality is insane for 99% of people. Vast majority of applicants need an MBA for a career switch into industries that recruit heavily from b-schools: consulting, general mangement, corporate strategy, marketing, i-banking, tech product management. For those people there's a decent number of b-schools that will do the trick. Of course, you should go to the best school you get into, but depending on your career goals and work ethic, you can go to a #15 program and still get the job you were aiming for. And of course, it also depends on how much money you're currently making, level of professional and personal satisfaction, career mobility prospects, etc.

There are some people for whom it may not make sense to go unless it's HSW, such as a portfolio manager at an elite hedge fund already making $500K+ including bonus. But as I said, those people are in the minority.

Finally, his cutoff at hsw/mit/kellogg is pretty ridiculous. Is he really saying that booth/columbia/tuck/haas are not worth it? Or for someone dying to break into nyc banking, stern is a waste of time and money? Or for someone wanting to work in healthcare in the South, fuqua is also not worth it? It's fine for him to say that you should be careful which b-school you go to, but he provides no evidence that only those 5 programs are "worth" it. In my opinion, it's a very shallow article with little meaningful analysis or insights.

Last edited by Shawshank on 15 Jan 2013, 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 14:58
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Yeah, his top 5 is too arbitrary. So Booth, Columbia and Tuck are chopped liver?
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 15:09
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Stupid, stupid, stupid, especially considering many programs ranked #20-30 have the best ROI's overall. Sounds like a douchebag Wharton elitist to me.

http://blog.accepted.com/2012/11/13/wha ... this-year/
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 15:31
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The author sounded quite pretentious throughout the article, especially with the whole "Wharton Class of 2002" classmates piece. Totally unnecessary.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 16:13
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This is frivolous drivel! Most people have reasons to get an MBA other than belonging to an exclusive club. And how does he come to the conclusion that "most startups (i.e. 51% or more) look down on MBAs"? If you find an anti-MBA startup, don't join it because they will probably not be around for long. And those that make it... Google, Apple, Microsoft... General Electric, Ford Motor Company (or better known as the Forturne 500) et cetera.... hire tons of MBAs.
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Last edited by lahai1dj on 15 Jan 2013, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 17:38
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lahai1dj wrote:
This is fivilous drivel! Most people have reasons to get an MBA other than belonging to an exclusive club. And how does he come to the conclusion that "most startups (i.e. 51% or more) look down on MBAs"? If you find an anti-MBA startup, don't join it because they will probably not be around for long. And those that make it... Google, Apple, Microsoft... General Electric, Ford Motor Company (or better known as the Forturne 500) et cetera.... hire tons of MBAs.



I'm currently doing work for a tech startup, and yes, the founders do look down on MBAs. They believe that without strong technical skills, you are adding very little value to a startup. This is actually true in the early stages, when a startup is working on building up its platform, scaling, and continually modifying various features. Of course, once it matures and actually becomes a viable business, they should hire MBAs or at least those with strong business acumen. Mark Zuckerberg's disastrous tenure as Facebook CEO is just one example of the limitations of techies. However, this issue is completely tangential, so I don't want to digress away from the main topic.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 17:46
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The part I found the funniest was when he said "the top five programs: Wharton, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Kellogg." Anyone else notice that he couldn't bear to list Harvard or Stanford first?

Honestly, this whole article was just drivel inspired by a flawed WSJ piece. Take a look at P&Q for some real data and journalism on the value of the MBA.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 17:51
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kingfalcon wrote:
The part I found the funniest was when he said "the top five programs: Wharton, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Kellogg." Anyone else notice that he couldn't bear to list Harvard or Stanford first?

Honestly, this whole article was just drivel inspired by a flawed WSJ piece. Take a look at P&Q for some real data and journalism on the value of the MBA.



Yup, I noticed that immediately and laughed my butt off. I thought nyu stern students had the biggest inferiority complex, but wharton students are not doing themselves a favor by writing garbage such as this.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 18:30
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Shawshank wrote:
lahai1dj wrote:
This is fivilous drivel! Most people have reasons to get an MBA other than belonging to an exclusive club. And how does he come to the conclusion that "most startups (i.e. 51% or more) look down on MBAs"? If you find an anti-MBA startup, don't join it because they will probably not be around for long. And those that make it... Google, Apple, Microsoft... General Electric, Ford Motor Company (or better known as the Forturne 500) et cetera.... hire tons of MBAs.



I'm currently doing work for a tech startup, and yes, the founders do look down on MBAs. They believe that without strong technical skills, you are adding very little value to a startup. This is actually true in the early stages, when a startup is working on building up its platform, scaling, and continually modifying various features. Of course, once it matures and actually becomes a viable business, they should hire MBAs or at least those with strong business acumen. Mark Zuckerberg's disastrous tenure as Facebook CEO is just one example of the limitations of techies. However, this issue is completely tangential, so I don't want to digress away from the main topic.



Perhaps I am defining startup more broadly, as an organization <5 years old, pre IPO, with fewer than 50 people. Certainly, if you want to join a start up in someone's basement and volunteer your time as a computer programmer post-MBA, then don't get an MBA, it's superfluous. Startup's need revenue too, and angel investors, VCs and other sources of capital prefer to see someone thinking of future revenue at the helm (such as an MBA). On the other hand if the funding comes from the founders bank account or from Mom and Dad, then there may be discomfort with MBAs... more likely because they cost a lot of $$ to hire and Mom and Dad only have so much in their 401k.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 19:58
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My favorite part:

Quote:
Many of my classmates from the Wharton Class of 2002 complain that their MBA was only valuable during their first job out of school. Once they went looking for another job, no one really cared what school they went to or how well they performed at the school. It was as if their degrees were rendered meaningless in all future jobs.


What a horrible shock! You mean to tell me that how you actually perform in your job is more important than where you went to school? What ever shall I do?
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 20:06
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I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 21:54
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I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.


+1. I was thinking the same thing. How can someone go to Wharton and cite one (horribly misconstrued) fact about Stanford's employment rate in an article making a sweeping statement about ALL MBA PROGRAMS EVER! Maybe this guy should go back to school.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 23:25
If people like him are on the adcom, it's no wonder I've never had any interest in applying to Wharton. What a nice job he's done at showing the kind of people Wharton admits.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 15 Jan 2013, 23:48
packet82 wrote:
If people like him are on the adcom, it's no wonder I've never had any interest in applying to Wharton. What a nice job he's done at showing the kind of people Wharton admits.


+1

Wharton was the top 10 school I discarded the earliest in my research process (mostly based on what some friends who did their undergrad there told me about the MBA students)
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 00:02
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UTMPA2011 wrote:
I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.



Well, it was a LOT easier to get into top b-schools back then. This guy applied during the 1999-2000 cycle, which was right before the nasdaq bubble burst, so a lot of people were too busy making money in tech and did not go to b-school. Competition was just not that strong.

Wharton is an awesome school, but it has more than 800 students. At ANY top b-school, there will be studs and duds. Sadly, the man who wrote this "article" (i hesitate to really label it as an article since that word implies actual logical reasoning, research, and coherent thought) belongs to the latter group.

Last edited by Shawshank on 16 Jan 2013, 05:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 00:21
my brain hurts :cry:
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 06:14
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Jay Bhatti sounds like another ignorant Wharton tool that would not pass the "airport test" in any interview that I would administer. I guess by attending a second tier institution like "Ross," I probably made the worst decision in my life.....

I would like this guy to talk to my Ross MBA 2 mentor who came from an education non profit background and now will be taking a full-time job at Bain Consulting next year, or another classmate who worked as an accountant who will be going to JP Morgan Ibanking. I bet they think their "second tier" MBA education was worth the investment. Also, the thought that Chicago, Tuck, Haas are "not worth it" is simply ridiculous.

Part of the reason for why I decided to attend Ross over much higher ranked schools that I was admitted to was because I felt that the culture here is very down to earth and non-arrogant. The fact that this guy represented Wharton on the admissions committee and is now writing articles disparaging other incredible MBA programs (many of which will have at least some graduates that will be 10 times more successful than him) is just bad taste and reflects poorly on his character. But, its a free country and he can write whatever garbage he wants online.
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 07:29
UTMPA2011 wrote:
I am still stuck on how this guy earned a Wharton MBA. The poor logic and reasoning skills demonstrated by this article remind me of USA Today reporting.

The content is poorly supported with unverifiable facts. There are also many inconsistencies throughout the article regarding the "value" of the MBA, which is not clearly defined. The broadness of the discussion of the value of an MBA as a whole only serves to weaken the overall argument because it undermines the statement that top 5 programs are still valuable.

The startup focus of the article is way off in left field and is very limiting in support of his conclusion. I was also surprised to read the statement: “However, most MBA programs do a poor job of preparing students for the uncertain economic reality we live in today, which makes an MBA a poor investment.” What? There is no support for this viewpoint. I am shocked that he does not provide a concrete example with a more realistic time horizon for evaluating “value”. Laughable. The scariest part of this article is that he was part of the adcom. Yikes.

I want to include this article as support for an application to Wharton. I would include an analysis of the logical errors and a statement that I would never embarrass Wharton like this guy.


Your V47 is well deserved :).
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Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother! [#permalink] New post 16 Jan 2013, 07:58
very interesting article, thanks for sharing.
Re: If you can't get into a Top 5, don't even bother!   [#permalink] 16 Jan 2013, 07:58
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