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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad,

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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 20 Feb 2005, 00:29
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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 07 Nov 2013, 01:24
Experts why D is not correct, please explain it is not still clear.

What is the modifier err with D?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 26 Nov 2013, 06:34
chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it



For Option D, As per OG it says a work ... incorrectly refers to illiad.
but a work that took.... is a noun phrase and it can modify previous clause or any noun in the previous clause.
So why it is wrong here?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 29 Nov 2013, 11:27
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Hi Abid,

Thanks for posting your query here. :-)

The noun "work" in this case does not refer to the original Iliad, but to Pope's translation of it. So, for the modifier to be correct, it should modify "translation", not "Iliad". It is not the Iliad that took Pope seven years to complete, but his translation of the Iliad. So, the correct answer should have the noun "translation".

I hope this helps!

Regards,
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 30 Nov 2013, 01:53
egmat wrote:
Hi Abid,

Thanks for posting your query here. :-)

The noun "work" in this case does not refer to the original Iliad, but to Pope's translation of it. So, for the modifier to be correct, it should modify "translation", not "Iliad". It is not the Iliad that took Pope seven years to complete, but his translation of the Iliad. So, the correct answer should have the noun "translation".

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Meghna



Thanks for the reply,but I am still confused.
Here,The noun phrase "A work.....in any language" correctly modifies the clause "Alexander pope began translating the Illiad" . So why this interpretation is incorrect?


Thanks
Abid.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 07 Jan 2014, 01:03
chunjuwu wrote:
In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language.

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it



Tense.... Tense, tense, tense.. Take the information you're given, and WORK with it. We're given "began", so we need to keep the discussion in simple past tense, otherwise we distort intended meaning.

A/C/E gone because they either use present participle "taking", or past participle "had taken".. Only B/D use "took"..

D gone because "until completion" is weird and "it" before as is awkward and has no clear antecedent.. So B is the correct one
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Re: [#permalink] New post 08 Jan 2014, 22:42
ps_dahiya wrote:
u2lover wrote:
can't go against true guru here :) but B seems to be the best choice...

btw... what is the idiom with pronounced? can we say "pronounced as"?

yes straight B.

pronounce(d) don't take anything

but when used as present participle (i.e pronouncing) then takes "on"
for example: pronouncing on the issues of the day.

See this:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pronounced


I found all answers poor, because I usually hear "pronounced as" instead of pronounced.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 18 Apr 2014, 12:15
egmat wrote:
Hi Abid,

Thanks for posting your query here. :-)

The noun "work" in this case does not refer to the original Iliad, but to Pope's translation of it. So, for the modifier to be correct, it should modify "translation", not "Iliad". It is not the Iliad that took Pope seven years to complete, but his translation of the Iliad. So, the correct answer should have the noun "translation".

I hope this helps!

Regards,
Meghna



Hi Meghna,

Can you please elaborate on this? I understand the general statement that you're making - the translation is the work and the lliad is not the work. That being said, are there any tell tale signs to spot the difference between "translation and translating" ? Can you think of it is - since it happened in 1713, it's not currently being translated, therefore, we cannot use "translating". Is that correct reasoning?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 08 Jul 2014, 11:49
Error Analysis:

-In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, a work (here the correct tense began is used)
- that, taking him seven years until completion, and ("that" here correctly refers to "the work". "Taking" is not a verb since verb-ing needs to be preceded by is/are/was/were/be and thus this is a SV error)
- that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language. ("That" here again refers to the "the work")

Choice Analysis:

A. his translation of the Illiad, a work that, taking him seven years until completion, and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced (SV error as explained above)
B. his translation of the Illiad, a work that took him seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced (Correct use of the verb "took" and "Pronounced". Both the verbs are connected correctly with "and")
C. his translation of the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it is ("Had taken" is incorrect tense. "Pronounced it is" is incorrect verb)
D. translating the Illiad, a work that took seven years until completion and that literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it as ("work" here now refers to Illiad instead of the "Translation". Also, the use of "it" is ambiguous)
E. translating the Illiad, a work that had taken seven years to complete and literary critic Samuel Johnson, Pope’s contemporary, pronounced it (same issue with "translating" as above. "Had taken" is wrong tense. Use of "it" again is ambiguous)
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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 22 Jul 2014, 03:17
Per the OG, option D and E are incorrect because 'The appositive phrase a work ... incorrectly refers to the Iliad
How does the appositive phrase 'a work' refer the Ilaid? Why can' t the phrase refer to 'translating the Iliad' ?
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 22 Jul 2014, 10:52
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shivdeepmodi wrote:
Per the OG, option D and E are incorrect because 'The appositive phrase a work ... incorrectly refers to the Iliad
How does the appositive phrase 'a work' refer the Ilaid? Why can' t the phrase refer to 'translating the Iliad' ?


Hi shivdeepmodi,

You ask a question that I am sure confuses a lot of test takers. So let's understand why in Choice D and E, "work that..." does not refer to "translating the Iliad".

The Noun + Noun modifier which you call the appositive phrase = a work that...

Now "a work" is a Noun Entity that must refer to another Noun Entity. Now, "translating" is an action word. It denotes not a conventional noun but actually the action of translating something. This is the reason why "a work" fails to modify "translating". Now, "the Iliad" follows "translating", and this is a conventional Noun Entity. This is the reason why in Choices D and E, the Noun + Noun Modifier modifies "the Iliad" and not "translating".

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 23 Jul 2014, 05:21
egmat wrote:
shivdeepmodi wrote:
Per the OG, option D and E are incorrect because 'The appositive phrase a work ... incorrectly refers to the Iliad
How does the appositive phrase 'a work' refer the Ilaid? Why can' t the phrase refer to 'translating the Iliad' ?


Hi shivdeepmodi,

You ask a question that I am sure confuses a lot of test takers. So let's understand why in Choice D and E, "work that..." does not refer to "translating the Iliad".

The Noun + Noun modifier which you call the appositive phrase = a work that...

Now "a work" is a Noun Entity that must refer to another Noun Entity. Now, "translating" is an action word. It denotes not a conventional noun but actually the action of translating something. This is the reason why "a work" fails to modify "translating". Now, "the Iliad" follows "translating", and this is a conventional Noun Entity. This is the reason why in Choices D and E, the Noun + Noun Modifier modifies "the Iliad" and not "translating".

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
SJ


Yes. It makes sense.
Translation - noun
Translating - verb
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 23 Jul 2014, 08:08
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shivdeepmodi wrote:


Yes. It makes sense.
Translation - noun
Translating - verb


Hi shivdeepmodi,

It is not correct to call "translating" a Verb because it has neither any tense nor any voice. Grammatically, they are Noun Entities, but they are not our regular nouns because they denote an action. And not every action word is Verb. Calling "translating" a Verb is incorrect.

Thanks. :-)
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 23 Jul 2014, 23:23
egmat wrote:
shivdeepmodi wrote:


Yes. It makes sense.
Translation - noun
Translating - verb


Hi shivdeepmodi,

It is not correct to call "translating" a Verb because it has neither any tense nor any voice. Grammatically, they are Noun Entities, but they are not our regular nouns because they denote an action. And not every action word is Verb. Calling "translating" a Verb is incorrect.

Thanks. :-)
SJ


Hi SJ,

I was thinking along the lines...

I am translating Gita from Hindi to English --> am translating --> action.
The translation of Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translation --> noun.

Regards,
Shivdeep
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 24 Jul 2014, 00:24
shivdeepmodi wrote:
I was thinking along the lines...

I am translating Gita from Hindi to English --> am translating --> action.
The translation of Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translation --> noun.

Actually an apples to apples comparison will be:

Translating Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translating used as a noun
The translation of Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translation clearly a noun

In the sentence that you have stated (I am translating Gita from Hindi to English), translating is a participle (an adjective form of the verb translate), while in the example that I have stated (Translating Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task), translating is a gerund (a noun form of the verb translate).

p.s. Our book SC Nirvana discusses gerunds Vs participles, their application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email, I can send you the corresponding section.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2014, 07:42
EducationAisle wrote:
shivdeepmodi wrote:
I was thinking along the lines...

I am translating Gita from Hindi to English --> am translating --> action.
The translation of Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translation --> noun.

Actually an apples to apples comparison will be:

Translating Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translating used as a noun
The translation of Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task --> translation clearly a noun

In the sentence that you have stated (I am translating Gita from Hindi to English), translating is a participle (an adjective form of the verb translate), while in the example that I have stated (Translating Gita from Hindi to English is a monumental task), translating is a gerund (a noun form of the verb translate).

p.s. Our book SC Nirvana discusses gerunds Vs participles, their application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email, I can send you the corresponding section.



Hi Ashish,

Can you please mail the relevant portion of the gerund vs participles.
My email id: bbreddy999@gmail.com
Name: Bharath
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 28 Jul 2014, 19:08
Sure, sent you the excerpt some time back.
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Re: In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 31 Jul 2014, 06:09
@e-gmat or anyone

In 1713,
Alexander Pope began his translation of the lillad,
a work that took him seven years to complete,
and
that literary critic samuel Johnson, pope's contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language

--- Can you please explain the role of "that" in this sentence.
My understanding is the first "that" is functioning as a subject
a work that - subject
took him seven years to complete - verb
whereas second "that" in the sentence
a work that - subject
literaray critic samuel jackson pronounced greatest translation - No Verb .

Is the second 'that' functioning as a connector? if so can "that", one that functions as subject and one that functions as connnector be parallel/ Please clarify my confusion regarding
1) role of "that" in both cases
2) if "a work that took him seven years to complete," is a clause or modifier?
3) a work that samuel jackson prounced....is a clause or modifier
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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad, [#permalink] New post 04 Aug 2014, 09:40
saikrishna123 wrote:
In 1713,
Alexander Pope began his translation of the lillad,
a work that took him seven years to complete,
and
that literary critic samuel Johnson, pope's contemporary, pronounced the greatest translation in any language

--- Can you please explain the role of "that" in this sentence.
My understanding is the first "that" is functioning as a subject
a work that - subject
took him seven years to complete - verb

Correct. However, a more relevant point is that that is functioning as a relative pronoun here, referring to the noun work.

saikrishna123 wrote:
whereas second "that" in the sentence
a work that - subject
literaray critic samuel jackson pronounced greatest translation - No Verb .

Is the second 'that' functioning as a connector?

Actually this that is also functioning as a relative pronoun (the way the first that is working), referring to the noun work.

So, basically both the instances of that are referring to work.

p.s. Our book SC Nirvana discusses the various avatars of that, their application and examples in significant detail. If you can PM you email, I can send you the corresponding section.
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In 1713, Alexander Pope began his translation of the Illiad,   [#permalink] 04 Aug 2014, 09:40
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