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In a casino, a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in

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In a casino, a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 03:13
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In a casino, a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?

1) Before winning the hand of poker, the gambler had fewer than 140 chips.
2) Before winning the hand of poker, the gambler had more than 70 chips.
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 04:16
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ykaiim wrote:
In a casino, a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?

1) Before winning the hand of poker, the gambler had fewer than 140 chips.
2) Before winning the hand of poker, the gambler had more than 70 chips.


Let # of piles before the winning be x, so the question is 12x=? Also given that 12x+12=14y --> 6(x+1)=7y --> x+1 must be multiple of 7.

(1) 12x<140 --> x<11\frac{2}{3} --> the only integer value of x, satisfying x<11\frac{2}{3}, for which x+1 is a multiple of 7 is when x=6 --> 12x=72. Sufficient.

(2) 12x>70 --> x>5\frac{5}{6} --> multiple values are possible for 12x, for instance if x=6, then 12x=72 but if x=13, then 12x=156. Not sufficient.

Answer: A.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 04:23
Thanks Bunuel, but S2 is still not clear.

I think the number of piles remains same before winning 12 more chips. So, if the earlier chips = 156, then there would be 13 piles of 12 chips each. Now, adding 12 more chips, which is 168, but it (168) is not divisible by 13. So, S2 is insufficient.

I dont know where I am missing.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 05:58
Expert's post
ykaiim wrote:
Thanks Bunuel, but S2 is still not clear.

I think the number of piles remains same before winning 12 more chips. So, if the earlier chips = 156, then there would be 13 piles of 12 chips each. Now, adding 12 more chips, which is 168, but it (168) is not divisible by 13. So, S2 is insufficient.

I dont know where I am missing.


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

Next: you are right statement (2) is not sufficient, that's why answer is A and not D.

As stated in my previous post from (2) there are multiple values of x possible:
If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 21:45
Hi Brunel,

I am not able to understand as for how can the number of piles be different in the two cases.As new no of chips to be added =12(given) and the new piles will have 14 chips each then it is mandatory that to accomodate 12 chips fully to make new set of 14 chips each can be done only when initiall no of piles would be 6 only.

Can you please explain with an example that contradicts that, for my understanding.

Thanks in advance!!!

utin


Bunuel wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
Thanks Bunuel, but S2 is still not clear.

I think the number of piles remains same before winning 12 more chips. So, if the earlier chips = 156, then there would be 13 piles of 12 chips each. Now, adding 12 more chips, which is 168, but it (168) is not divisible by 13. So, S2 is insufficient.

I dont know where I am missing.


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

Next: you are right statement (2) is not sufficient, that's why answer is A and not D.

As stated in my previous post from (2) there are multiple values of x possible:
If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.

Hope it's clear.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 18 Jun 2010, 22:56
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utin wrote:
Hi Brunel,

I am not able to understand as for how can the number of piles be different in the two cases.As new no of chips to be added =12(given) and the new piles will have 14 chips each then it is mandatory that to accomodate 12 chips fully to make new set of 14 chips each can be done only when initiall no of piles would be 6 only.

Can you please explain with an example that contradicts that, for my understanding.

Thanks in advance!!!

utin


Bunuel wrote:
ykaiim wrote:
Thanks Bunuel, but S2 is still not clear.

I think the number of piles remains same before winning 12 more chips. So, if the earlier chips = 156, then there would be 13 piles of 12 chips each. Now, adding 12 more chips, which is 168, but it (168) is not divisible by 13. So, S2 is insufficient.

I dont know where I am missing.


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

Next: you are right statement (2) is not sufficient, that's why answer is A and not D.

As stated in my previous post from (2) there are multiple values of x possible:
If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.

Hope it's clear.


Please read the solution carefully. Examples are given in the text you quote.

# of piles before the winning x, after the winning y, so 12x+12=14y. Two possible scenarios:

If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 03:03
It is really a GMAT question

I dont think we need additional information from any of the two statements to solve it
Question says "a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?"

This means gambler added 2 chips (out of 12) in every pile to make it a pile of 14 from a pile of 12. That means number of piles were 12/2 = 6, because there is no left over. There cannot be any other scenario then 6 piles.

so whatever information we have in both statement is basically useless (new option "F" if GMAT want to add :lol: or say both are sufficient)

any comments ?
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 19 Jun 2010, 03:13
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hardnstrong wrote:
It is really a GMAT question

I dont think we need additional information from any of the two statements to solve it
Question says "a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?"

This means gambler added 2 chips (out of 12) in every pile to make it a pile of 14 from a pile of 12. That means number of piles were 12/2 = 6, because there is no left over. There cannot be any other scenario then 6 piles.

so whatever information we have in both statement is basically useless (new option "F" if GMAT want to add :lol: or say both are sufficient)

any comments ?


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

# of piles before the winning x, after the winning y, so 12x+12=14y. Two possible scenarios (out of many):

If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.

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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 20 Jun 2010, 23:07
Bunuel wrote:
hardnstrong wrote:
It is really a GMAT question

I dont think we need additional information from any of the two statements to solve it
Question says "a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?"

This means gambler added 2 chips (out of 12) in every pile to make it a pile of 14 from a pile of 12. That means number of piles were 12/2 = 6, because there is no left over. There cannot be any other scenario then 6 piles.

so whatever information we have in both statement is basically useless (new option "F" if GMAT want to add :lol: or say both are sufficient)

any comments ?


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

# of piles before the winning x, after the winning y, so 12x+12=14y. Two possible scenarios (out of many):

If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.



We cannot take x=13 (please see the highlighted part above) because if we take x=13 then its not possible to make piles of 14 chips each (Note - each pile of 14 chips). In that case gambler need 26 more chips to make it a pile of 14 chips from 12 chips. But he won only 12 chips more.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 01:04
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hardnstrong wrote:
Bunuel wrote:
hardnstrong wrote:
It is really a GMAT question

I dont think we need additional information from any of the two statements to solve it
Question says "a gambler stacks a certain number of chips in piles, with 12 chips in each pile and no chips left over. After winning 12 extra chips in a hand of poker, the gambler again stacks his chips in piles, with 14 chips in each pile and no chips left over. How many chips did the gambler have before winning the hand of poker?"

This means gambler added 2 chips (out of 12) in every pile to make it a pile of 14 from a pile of 12. That means number of piles were 12/2 = 6, because there is no left over. There cannot be any other scenario then 6 piles.

so whatever information we have in both statement is basically useless (new option "F" if GMAT want to add :lol: or say both are sufficient)

any comments ?


# of piles before and after the winning 12 extra chips may or may not be the same. If we knew from the beginning that they are equal than 12x+12=14x --> x=6 --> 12x=72. So in this case statements are not needed to answer the question.

# of piles before the winning x, after the winning y, so 12x+12=14y. Two possible scenarios (out of many):

If x=6, then 12x=72 --> 12x+12=72+12=84=14y=14*6;
If x=13, then 12x=156 --> 12x+12=156+12=168=14y=14*12.



We cannot take x=13 (please see the highlighted part above) because if we take x=13 then its not possible to make piles of 14 chips each (Note - each pile of 14 chips). In that case gambler need 26 more chips to make it a pile of 14 chips from 12 chips. But he won only 12 chips more.


OK. Let me clear this once more:

If # of piles BEFORE winning was 13, then TOTAL # of chips would be 13(piles)*12(chips \ in \ each)=156.

AFTER winning 12 chips TOTAL # of chips would become 156+12=168, which IS a multiple of 14. So we can redistribute 168 chips in 12 piles 14 chips in EACH, 12(piles)*14(chips \ in \ each)=168.

Another scenario possible:
If # of piles BEFORE winning was 20, then TOTAL # of chips would be 20(piles)*12(chips \ in \ each)=240.

AFTER winning 12 chips TOTAL # of chips would become 240+12=252, which IS a multiple of 14. So we can redistribute 252 chips in 18 piles 14 chips in EACH, 18(piles)*14(chips \ in \ each)=252.

OR:
If # of piles BEFORE winning was 27, then TOTAL # of chips would be 27(piles)*12(chips \ in \ each)=324.

AFTER winning 12 chips TOTAL # of chips would become 324+12=336, which IS a multiple of 14. So we can redistribute 336 chips in 24 piles 14 chips in EACH, 24(piles)*14(chips \ in \ each)=336.

...

OR:
If # of piles BEFORE winning was 699, then TOTAL # of chips would be 699(piles)*12(chips \ in \ each)=8388.

AFTER winning 12 chips TOTAL # of chips would become 8388+12=8400, which IS a multiple of 14. So we can redistribute 8400 chips in 600 piles 14 chips in EACH, 600(piles)*14(chips \ in \ each)=8400.

...

Basically if the number of piles BEFORE winning was 1 less than multiple of 7 (see the solution in my first post), gambler would be able to redistribute chips AFTER winning in 14 chips.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 03:51
Thanks Bunuel for your patience and gr8 explanation +1
I got the point now ........

Just to mention ....... questions say gambler made the piles of 14 chips each. So the number of piles will change not the qty of chips in each pile. you mentioned it other way round.
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 21 Jun 2010, 04:06
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hardnstrong wrote:
Thanks Bunuel for your patience and gr8 explanation +1
I got the point now ........

Just to mention ....... questions say gambler made the piles of 14 chips each. So the number of piles will change not the qty of chips in each pile. you mentioned it other way round.


Yes, there was a typo: chips instead of piles, edited it.
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COLLECTION OF QUESTIONS:
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Re: Gambling in a casino [#permalink] New post 14 Jul 2010, 11:01
Bunuel - hats off to you boss
Re: Gambling in a casino   [#permalink] 14 Jul 2010, 11:01
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