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In retrospect....

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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 24 May 2011, 12:14
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The basic point here around the different recruiting timelines is that you have to commit to one or the other: early traditional versus late non-traditional.

You can't do both (successfully) and not break the rules. Accepting an offer from on-campus and continuing to recruit is considered a big no-no.

Plenty of people will set their sights really high on traditional ("only McKinsey" or something like that) and if unsuccessful go the non-traditional route later in the school year.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 01 Jul 2011, 18:15
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Very interesting post. My experiences are similar – a brand name school will get you an interview but nothing more.

However, I always imagined the MBA situation would be different, i.e. rank would matter. Let me step back and explain my situation and perspective, before I make my argument :)

After spending a year in M&A as an Analyst, I switched careers to MC. I am employed by a young European multiservice MC firm based in NYC that is making efforts to establish itself in the US market and compete with top strategy and op consultancies. In true European fashion, my employer does not require an MBA degree for advancement past the Senior Consultant level. I am very happy with life at my company: very flat team structure, lots of responsibility / client interaction / freedom, great colleagues. Life is good and I might even make Senior Consultant (MBA entry point) in a year or so.

That being said, I am still considering applying for an MBA (and I want to stay in MC post-MBA). My reasons are the following:

1- Add quality and quantity to my network (contacts are a shockingly important thing in a young MC organization trying to expand its client base and pipeline; very likely the case in many other MC firms too)

2- Improve credibility and saleability as a consultant

3- Gain the prestige of a Top10 school so I can speed up the wife-finding process. Kidding.

I won’t be a career changer so a school’s job placement statistics (i.e. rank, implicitly) won’t matter too much to me. However, I still feel rank will make a significant difference. Considering 1 and 2 above, wouldn’t rank clearly matter? Any of the Top20-25 schools can land you an interview with an MC firm outside of M/B/B. However, I see credibility and power of network as the two factors that have the most spectacular impact on one’s career. And they are both a function of rank.

I’d appreciate everyone’s perspective.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 11:43
Really helpful hindsight/advice. thanks!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 12:26
rhyme wrote:
#5: Take good professors not good classes
------------------------------------------
Personal experience here but a good professor a good class makes. Simple.


Rhyme, very good advices, but one question:
how do first year students usually get personal experience of Booth's professors?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 13:23
Thought you quit, rhyme ;)
Glad you haven't, though.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 14:13
Great post rhyme. Thanks! I'll be sure to check out that More than Money book soon!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 14:17
Great post!!

Question for you (or anyone else) about rankings:

You said they don't really matter in the end, however, I've been struggling with this question and wonder which way I should go:

Pepperdine MBA vs. UCLA MBA

I'm looking at the fully-employed programs at both schools. Under normal circumstances, it would be a no-brainer for me (UCLA!). However, I have the opportunity to complete my MBA at Pepperdine 18 months earlier and with $60,000 savings over UCLA FEMBA.

If I was younger, this decision would be much easier (UCLA!), however, I will be close to 39 years old (!!) when I enter either program. So I am unsure if a degree from UCLA would give me as much benefit over a Pepperdine degree (job-wise) as it would for a much younger candidate.

Any thoughts?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 14:47
Fantastic post!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 15:11
As always, insightful and to a t!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 15:15
this is really cool. thanks!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 06 May 2011, 23:01
Thanks for the post!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 07 May 2011, 07:39
Expert's post
Thanks for posting - Really really good stuff!!!!


P.S. you have just gone over the 1,000 kudos milestone!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 07 May 2011, 07:47
bb wrote:
Thanks for posting - Really really good stuff!!!!


P.S. you have just gone over the 1,000 kudos milestone!


I second that with mine...

very good post.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 07 May 2011, 10:47
bb wrote:
P.S. you have just gone over the 1,000 kudos milestone!


That'll be why he came back.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 08 May 2011, 18:33
As a post-MBA completely agree with everything Rhyme said.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 05:45
I agree with pretty much everything this guy, wrote, ive learned pretty much the exact same things from my experience at a top undergrad business program. I would however say that I think that getting good grades has meant that I have learned a lot which in turn has meant that I got a lot out of the education, and a lot of employers do look at grades. At least McKinsey's recruiters complemented me on my grades and told me to get back to them closer to graduation. I think grades shows that you have learned a lot, and that you have a good capacity to work which I think means something to employers. But the further you get away from school, the less grades means. What counts is always your latest merits. Then again, I heard one CEO who talked about how bad grade she had in school and she said she preferred to hire people with similiar grades often because they were a lot like her. Maybe the message should be to get good grades if that is what you want for yourself, but not to get good grades just to impress employers? And I totally agree with the last one, if you do what you love money will follow. Because you will reach your highest potential only if you enjoy what you are doing for work.

So I guess if you love marketing, you will probably end making more money there than in i-banking because your passion and enthusiasm will make you a great marketer, whereas you will only become a mediocre i-banker without the same.

And I agree that I was both surprised and dissapointed by how many stupid and lazy people there were in a top-business program: HOW THE HELL DID THEY GET IN?!
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 06:27
Vapor wrote:
Thanks rhyme! Great post, and very helpful!

Happytrojan wrote:
I agree with pretty much everything this guy, wrote, ive learned pretty much the exact same things from my experience at a top undergrad business program. I would however say that I think that getting good grades has meant that I have learned a lot which in turn has meant that I got a lot out of the education, and a lot of employers do look at grades. At least McKinsey's recruiters complemented me on my grades and told me to get back to them closer to graduation. I think grades shows that you have learned a lot, and that you have a good capacity to work which I think means something to employers. But the further you get away from school, the less grades means...


I think grades much more if you're undergrad, and especially if you're going into consulting. I know Deloitte wants at least a 3.5, not too sure about other companies.


Heard most I-banks require at least 3.5 too: I think you are right in other words.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 07:15
rhyme wrote:
In retrospect...

I present for no other reason than I feel like it, the top 10 mistakes I wish I hadn't made, or things I learned or whatever I can come up with that happens to end up with 10 items ... in no particular order:

#1: Grades
----------


#2: Hanging out more
--------------------

#3: Don't get distracted
------------------------


#4: Rank only sorta matters
---------------------------

#7: Spend more time earlier on figuring out what your goals are
-------------------------------------------------------------



Nice post. I will be going after good grades for myself because I wouldn't like to have 2.9GPA or the equivalent. So, it's a personal thing. This is by far the most I have ever paid for education so I want to learn something.

Second, I do think people take the hanging out thing too much to the other end. I saw this at Harvard's ASW. Some people were overdrive. You know, introducing themselves to everyone and not taking the time to make meaningful conversation. They were going for everything that was happening. Quality over quantity people. If not, you find yourself surrounded by acquaintances and no real friends. That goes back to your point of distraction and knowing why you are in business school, I think some people are inherently followers and just follow the herd. "where's everyone hanging?" "where's everyone trying to work?"

Rank may not matter but reputation does. Because it determines which companies recruit where and how much. Please make no mistake.
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 13:03
[quote="bschbound"]
Second, I do think people take the hanging out thing too much to the other end. I saw this at Harvard's ASW. Some people were overdrive. You know, introducing themselves to everyone and not taking the time to make meaningful conversation. They were going for everything that was happening. Quality over quantity people./quote]

bschbound, I have to agree with you strongly there. I met a few people at ASW that were exactly as you described them. I actually found that during the champagne reception, I met one or two people I really enjoyed and talked to them the entire two hours, while others were running around trying to "tag" as many people as they could with their presence.

I think we're all out to get something different out of the MBAs. For me, I'd like to learn a lot, and make a few really deep connections. No matter what, we'll all make hundreds of acquaintances. But how many of them can you truly count on when you need a hand... or better yet - a friend?
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Re: In retrospect.... [#permalink] New post 12 May 2011, 13:09
icemanjs4 wrote:

bschbound, I have to agree with you strongly there. I met a few people at ASW that were exactly as you described them. I actually found that during the champagne reception, I met one or two people I really enjoyed and talked to them the entire two hours, while others were running around trying to "tag" as many people as they could with their presence.

I think we're all out to get something different out of the MBAs. For me, I'd like to learn a lot, and make a few really deep connections. No matter what, we'll all make hundreds of acquaintances. But how many of them can you truly count on when you need a hand... or better yet - a friend?


Interesting. Maybe I didn't meet those people since my wife and I skipped the champagne reception during R1 ASW to have dinner with some good friends. We're pretty laid back anyways but we were happy to meet lots of really nice folks that I'd gladly call friends. I've got a lifetime to network. My two years at HBS will be spent making meaningful relationships. :-D
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Re: In retrospect....   [#permalink] 12 May 2011, 13:09
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